Posts by Frenchy

for anyone who's ever written something of a private nature or asked clarification on certain beliefs have you ever had the unfortunate experience of the elders calling you in the back room or a sheperding call ?.

the reason i bring this out is that newer brothers or sisters don't know that everytime you write the society the society sends a copy of your letter to your local cong.

elders.

Frenchy

Dear Spec

You bring up some valid points. I agree that in some cases the elders should not have advance notice in order to 'prepare their defense' inasmuch as we don't like to give the publishers time to cover their trail!

I'm old enough and have seen enough not to be naïve anymore. I will readily agree with you on “… how fast a body of wayward elders can fabricate and cover up…” Unfortunately I have seen it happen. I believe that accusations against elders should be taken seriously and thoroughly investigated. If it proves to be true, I think disciplinary action should be taken. If it proves to be false I believe that the publisher should be made to account for the damage to that brother’s name.

As to your other point: “How many brothers and sisters know what happens to their letters when they write the society?” I would venture to say that not many know this.

45

My Journey

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

i suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways.

what i fail to realize, i guess, is that we are far more alike than unique.

every now and then i will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that i have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing!

Frenchy

Dear Spec

You are so right. There is so much information to digest. If nothing else I have come to appreciate just how many ways one thing can be argued!

45

My Journey

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

i suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways.

what i fail to realize, i guess, is that we are far more alike than unique.

every now and then i will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that i have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing!

Frenchy

(cont'd from above)
I’m one of the few people, I guess, that really enjoys field service. I love talking to people. I love discussions, debates. You knock on a hundred doors and at least sixty will not be home. Of the the forty left you will get at least twenty kids telling you mom and dad are still sleeping (although you can see dad in the back yard working on the mower and mom traipsing about in her housecoat). Of the twenty left, eighteen are totally apathetic and summarily dismiss you with a patronizing smile. One is hostile but you chalk him up as ignorant and move on to the one-hundredth door. There you find them, husband and wife sitting in the living room. He’s watching the news and she’s shelling peas for dinner. They invite you in and he turns off the TV and asks you to sit down. After a while they begin asking you questions and you begin answering them and reading from your Bible to them. An hour goes by and you realize that people are in the car waiting on you. You tell them you have to go and they beg you to stay…you stay another thirty minutes and then you set up an appointment to come back. THAT, to me is the greatest feeling of all. You teach people how to use their Bibles, you help them sort out complex and perplexing problems, you pray with them. They put their arms around you and hug you and tell you how much they appreciate your taking the time with them to teach them the things they want to know. They begin cleaning up their lives and making changes and they revel in the new hope that they have. For me there is no substitute for that feeling. I miss it already.
(to be cont'd)

45

My Journey

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

i suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways.

what i fail to realize, i guess, is that we are far more alike than unique.

every now and then i will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that i have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing!

Frenchy

Hello, Simon

Yes, we are so much like the ones we accuse.

45

My Journey

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

i suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways.

what i fail to realize, i guess, is that we are far more alike than unique.

every now and then i will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that i have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing!

Frenchy

(cont'd from previous post)

As noted at the beginning, no one is altogether unique and so I wonder not if, but how many others are on the same road. I read comments made by apostates (I no longer use that term in a derogatory sense) who are bitter with anger with EVERYTHING about the Society. Some are constantly bashing the elders (all the elders!), painting them as evil and conniving, as sinister agents of the devil out to ‘get’ someone. My perception is quite different. I see them as no different from the flock. Some are following blindly while others are being torn apart by the same paradoxes that are plaguing me.

In the organization, no real criticism is tolerated. If you say something negative about the Society you get ‘jumped on’. That is a true statement. This is a major grievance with most if not all apostates. YET….YET if you should reply to one of their posts with ANYTHING but a negative comment about the Society or the elders or the brotherhood in general, they (most, not all) will jump all over you with the same tenacity and passion as a circuit overseer would if he saw you reading Ray Franz’s book during the elders’ meeting! What’s the difference in the two? None that I see.

(to be cont'd)

45

My Journey

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

i suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways.

what i fail to realize, i guess, is that we are far more alike than unique.

every now and then i will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that i have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing!

Frenchy

I suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways. What I fail to realize, I guess, is that we are far more alike than unique. Every now and then I will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that I have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing! Regardless of how many times it happens it never fails to amaze me.

Mom began studying when I was very young and so I ‘grew up’ in ‘the truth’ …AND WAS CONVINCED OF IT from that point on. In the slow and relentless march of time that was to come I was faced with many important (how important are we really in the scheme of things?) decisions which I set about resolving on the basis of my faith in what I KNEW to be the truth. I raised my children that way. Two accepted it and were baptized and one did not.

Somewhere along the way I realized (my personal evaluation of things) that things were not as I once supposed them to be. I began trying to evaluate our beliefs as one outside of our faith would, as a ‘worldly person.’ No one who has not been a witness can fully appreciate the difficulty of this. It proved to be a long journey that would not be without consequences. I came to realize just how silly some of the things we did and preached sounded to one not ‘conditioned’ to accept this. I came to realize how flimsy some of our ‘basic truths’ really were when it came to actually establishing (defending is another matter) them from Scripture. As disturbing as this was to me, it was made even more so by yet another realization: There was so much that was GOOD about it! There was so much that I was convinced was right. THAT is where the difficulty lies (please note present tense) for me.
(to be cont'd)

77

Writing private letters to the Society.

by spectromize in

for anyone who's ever written something of a private nature or asked clarification on certain beliefs have you ever had the unfortunate experience of the elders calling you in the back room or a sheperding call ?.

the reason i bring this out is that newer brothers or sisters don't know that everytime you write the society the society sends a copy of your letter to your local cong.

elders.

Frenchy

Dear Spec,

I believe I know what you are saying here however I respectfully beg to disagree. My personal opinion on the matter is this: If there is a problem with the elders then the C.O. is the one that will have to tend to it so he needs to know exactly what the complaint is, i.e., a copy of the letter. You or I would certainly want to face the one accusing us and we would want to hear from his own lips what it is that he is accusing us of. For this reason, the elders see the letter and read exactly what the grievance is. At some point the complaint will have to be read to them in the presence of the accuser anyway so why not inform elders by means of the letter that was sent in to the Society?

What would the C.O. tell the elders when they ask: “What is the complaint against us?” And why would not the elders have the right to face their accuser? Speaking for myself I would definitely want to know what it is that I’m accused of and who is doing the accusing. It’s far too easy to be critical anonymously. It’s another matter entirely to have to ‘throw the first stone’. It has a tendency to make to more judicious in your accusations.

That’s just how I view it. I hope you don’t take this to mean that I don’t appreciate your view of the matter either.

77

Writing private letters to the Society.

by spectromize in

for anyone who's ever written something of a private nature or asked clarification on certain beliefs have you ever had the unfortunate experience of the elders calling you in the back room or a sheperding call ?.

the reason i bring this out is that newer brothers or sisters don't know that everytime you write the society the society sends a copy of your letter to your local cong.

elders.

Frenchy

The Society does not like to act on individual cases apart from the local body of elders. After all, these men are appointed by the Society to care for that particular congregation. They would know the circumstances better than anyone else. They would know things that were NOT said on the letter! Whatever action, if any, would be taken by those brothers and they would certainly have to be in on what is happening.

What you may not know is that the C.O. also gets a copy of that letter. In the event of charges against one or more of the elders he would contact the body and inquire into the matter. If it's something that can wait until his next visit then he waits. If it cannot, then he will at the very least talk to the P.O. and set something up in the near future.

Unfortunately, sometimes elders 'back each other up' and cover for one another and what is a legitimate complaint may be 'glossed over.' HOWEVER, if the sister is persistent and writes to the Society again (sending a copy of the letter to the C.O. and giving a copy to the body, noting in the letter to the Society that she has done so, will go a long way in her being taken seriously. There will be someone assigned to look into the matter. In such cases where there appears to be a legitimate complaint, a special committee is appointed to look into the matter. The committee consists of brothers that are used prominently in the circuit, perhaps a retired C.O., assembly overseer, substitute C.O., etc.

I have been in a situation (the complaint was not against me, I was not an elder at the time) where such a committe was called in. The brothers there did an excellent job in getting to the truth and the entire body was chastised for some 'questionable practices' including covering for each other.

I was also told of an instance by a District Overseer wherein a C.O. was removed because of an injustice perpetrated upon a pioneer sister by her elders in which the C.O. backed the elders instead of giving due attention to the sister's grievance.