Posts by Tornintwo

7

FMF 100th Post: Don't Go Through Life, Grow Through Life.

by freemindfade in

i have been waiting to post this 100th post to come up with something half decent.

while i was driving this morning this is what i was thinking about.

there are a lot of new folks on here, and who knows how many lurkers checking in.

Tornintwo

Nice post..and so true

when I first started doubting, I desperately wanted accurate answers to all my questions like yesterday! It's ingrained with us, we must have all the answers! The society has got themselves in a mess trying to answer everything categorically so much that it's laughable!

A few weeks in I read a post here that said 'I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I cant question' and it blew me away.

Now I have slowed right down and am happy not to know everything, I have some beliefs I'm holding onto but I am not afraid to question them, if they get proved innacurate it's not the end of the world (lol) and I can 'grow' from the discovery as you say.

The thought that God would kill anyone for not having the right answers in this day and age of multiple faiths, skepticism and information overload, is just barbaric. One thing I do know, if there is a god, he or she has to be more merciful and compassionate than me and I wouldn't kill my kids if they didn't understand something correctly, especially if I'd made the instructions as clear as mud!!

32

My parents sent the elders after me

by atacrossroads in

jw
friends

i stopped regulary attending meetings and going in field service in january.

the elders have left me alone for the most part i think because of my jw husband.

last week my parents came over and told me i needed to come back to meetings.

Tornintwo

Well done for the way you handled the elders, they weren't there to 'encourage' you, it sounds like they were there to try to catch you out. It's great your husband is being more reasonable, might wake him up.

im in a similar situation, second month inactive so I'm expecting a visit soon, my planned responses are; I have some personal problems right now (true), thanks for your concern, don't want to discuss it right now.... Etc. etc.

10

Independent article: Spiritual abuse

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i've been reading about different types of emotional abuse to help me define and cope with my difficult marriage, came across this article : 7 ways a person can be abused, by a psychologist.

http://pro.psychcentral.com/exhausted-woman/2015/08/7-ways-a-person-can-be-abused/.

includes forms of 'spiritual abuse' - these sound familiar?.

Tornintwo

I've been reading about different types of emotional abuse to help me define and cope with my difficult marriage, came across this article : 7 Ways a Person can be Abused, by a Psychologist

http://pro.psychcentral.com/exhausted-woman/2015/08/7-ways-a-person-can-be-abused/

Includes forms of 'Spiritual abuse' - these sound familiar?

Spiritual Abuse. Has the victim experienced:

Dichotomous Thinking – Dividing people into two parts. Those who agree with them and those who don’t. They make fun of, belittle, and show prejudice towards other beliefs.
Elitists – Refusing to associate with people or groups they consider impure or unholy.
Submission – Requires that others completely adopt their point of view. There is no room for differing opinions or questioning their authority. Name calling, chastising, and the silent treatment are common maneuvers into compliance.
Labeling – People who don’t comply with their beliefs are seen as disobedient, rebellious, lacking faith, demons, or enemies of the faith.
Public Performance – Demand perfection and happiness at all times. Religious activities such as attending church have extreme demands, excessive expectations, and rigidity.
Legalistic – Strict adherence to their rules and regulations are commanded with absolute statements about insignificant issues such as hair color or style. Non-compliance is met with severe discipline and even excommunication.
Segregation – Use secrecy or withholds information to a few select worthy individuals. Estrangement from extended family members and friends outside of the religion. This includes shunning, alienation, or persecution.
Blind Obedience – Is expected. They have replaced religion with themselves and people are expected to worship them.
Abuse of Authority – Use position or authority to connive for their personal benefit which is often financial. They justify the behavior by saying they deserve it.
Fraud – Engaging in criminal misconduct or cover up the transgressions of others in the name of their religion. This includes covering up sexual abuse, physical abuse, financial felonies, and misdemeanors.

23

Help me Out Here

by vinman in

i've been out about 9 months.

and yes i am still obsessed with anti-watchtower material.

i've been married 23 years.

Tornintwo

I am in the early days of waking up to ttatt, without reading here/JW facts regularly my indoctrinated mind drifts back to guilt and self doubt, so I feel we need it. I also think we're so used to having all the answers we want to resolve everything now! I am getting used to the idea that we don't have to know everything. A poster said on here "I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question" - I love that phrase!

I was in my teens when I got converted, gave up opportunities like a modeling contract, university place, now in my 40s it's not gonna happen, it's very frustrating. Also gave up true friends and hobbies.

For now I enjoy little things, I love reading thrillers, but I used to restrict reading them so I would have time to read the magazines etc lol! Now I can dive in and it gives my brain a much needed rest from researching ttatt and all the psychological damage the Jws did to me and my kids. Also it feels great to go to the beach on a Sunday instead of a snooze fest/judge fest meeting, just look at the waves and play with my little one, with genuine appreciation for life and God instead of forced 'devotion' given to show off to other men. I've also reached out to school friends I'd left behind, it feels great to catch up and I apologized for walking away from them, I never replaced them in the org in 20 years, that says it all really doesn't it?

long term goals include buying a house, studying at open uni, but baby steps are all I can manage right now.....enjoying the little freedoms and pleasures we denied ourselves for so long.

31

Having One Of Those "Pondering Disassociation" Days :(

by freemindfade in

there are a lot of things that make me have days like this, the utter embarrassment of being are part of a cult that protects child abusers, that enforces emotional brutality through shunning, and that lies constantly.

the lying i can tolerate, the world is built on bullshit, i have a high lie tolerance.

i can ignore it if it has no effect on me etc.

Tornintwo

I can relate to the 'embarrassment of being a part of this cult' , I have something which helps with this that doesn't involve disassociating. I am now openly admitting to non witness family and friends that I am no longer in agreement with some of the teachings and Im not really a JW anymore, they inevitably ask why you don't walk away completely? and the answer is 'if I do that or admit how I feel then none of them will be able to talk to me again' to which the answer is 'no way?, unbelievable!' and they see even more how wrong the religion is. It feels good to openly acknowledge my distance from the faith now, like rejoining the human race, and I do so safely knowing that none of these people are in touch with any witnesses I know.

my marriage is now in absolute crisis, I just can't support my husbands controlling, over zealous application of JW rules in our family anymore, he's lost any semblance of submission from me (I've put up with way too much crap over the years already) so I've no idea if the marriage will survive, but I'm hanging in there going to a few meetings for my teenage daughter..... It's tough but if it's for someone you really care about you can manage a couple of hours once a fortnight, at least it's not a 10 Hour+ a week commitment with a side order of guilt anymore!

Sympathies from one 'divided home' to another x

75

If you could ask Geoffrey Jackson one question that he had to answer what would it be?

by jwleaks in

what question would you ask geoffrey jackson, as a member of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, to answer?

.

jw leaks.

Tornintwo

I'm wound up now, In their instructions to the branch, why do they look for excuses to allow appointments of men who have been child abusers in the past, allowing them to retain privileges, or be appointed if the offense was a long time ago and they are 'perceived' (by the untrained, unprofessional elders) to be in good standing. Does any congregation member want a former child abuser as an elder in their hall? However long it was ago.

You do something like that, you should never hold a privilege, small price to pay.

75

If you could ask Geoffrey Jackson one question that he had to answer what would it be?

by jwleaks in

what question would you ask geoffrey jackson, as a member of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, to answer?

.

jw leaks.

Tornintwo

I'd like him to be questioned about shunning of df'd and da'd child abuse victims:

so a child is abused within the jw organization, his/her case is mishandled by the organization, he/she understandably leaves this religion - and then the religion tells all of her friends and family to shun him/her? How is that a reflection of christ's love and compassion? Doesn't that just compound the abuse and mistreatment?

75

If you could ask Geoffrey Jackson one question that he had to answer what would it be?

by jwleaks in

what question would you ask geoffrey jackson, as a member of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, to answer?

.

jw leaks.

Tornintwo

splash - quotes from guidelines to service desks: 18. Factors to consider: At times, the conduct of an individual may not be classified as child abuse from the perspective of the congregation, but from a legal standpoint he may be viewed as guilty of such.
19....if the one who views child pornography does not involve anyone else in his actions, this is not considered to be child abuse from a congregational standpoint
WHAT?!?!!?! (Can't get out of the quote box) , thank you Splash for bringing this to our attention. Just shocking! What about the abused child at the other end of the pornographic material? The viewer is contributing and actively encouraging that abuse, do they not realise how many child murderers and abusers started out with child porn (eg. little April Jones killed by Mark Bridger). Just disgusting.

51

Leaving the org and marriage possibly ending

by atacrossroads in

jw
friends

i was raised a witness, baptized at 16, vacation pioneered, got married, etc.

i was very much your typical witness and believed it was the truth until last summer.

a very close relative of mine left the witnesses.

Tornintwo

Hi atacrossroads

i am in a similar situation to you, just woken up, but my husband is devout and very controlling. I admire that you have been true to yourself and to your conscience, I hope that they just let you go quietly.

You are right to be relieved there are no children involved, we have 3, 1 out, 1 in but struggling and a baby. That's where the differences really hurt, when we are parenting (particularly our teenager who is still in) and she is struggling with the friendship issue at the moment (not allowed 'worldly' associations but no good friends in the 'truth'). I want to lift the pressure off her and let her make her own decisions about friends, not to let difference of religion get in the way of a friendship, he specializes in making her feel guilty and ashamed if she ever 'defies' him and spends time with her 'worldly' schoolfriends. He is difficult in lots of other ways even the witnesses see it, so right now I'm not sure our marriage will survive. In the past I've always stayed and even put up with abuse because I had to as a good witness wife, that barrier is no longer there, although I'd like to make things work for the sake of the kids, if he'll work with me that is.

if I had a husband who was loving, supportive and a 'good husband' like you do, I would slow down a bit, for the sake of his feelings, it's a shock to him and he has not read what you have read. Concentrate on positive areas of your marriage, recreation etc, spend time doing fun things together, don't criticize his dub ways. But just ask for mutual respect on your different viewpoints, ask him for help not to get df'd. When he sees you are happy doing other things, but still a good wife, he might start to question things himself.

Re the holidays I would not do it under his nose, go to a college do yes, but don't put decorations in the house, it will cause unnecessary friction and damage your fade.

23

Rodney Spinks Lies...

by iwasblind in

hi guys.

i actually have had dealings with rod and found him to be a very reasonable and "non-robotic" man in the past.. i know it should not surprise me, but i was disappointed to hear his lies and half-truths.. they know their stuff and are not easily led, but he tried to lead the royal commission to believe that 2 people could be involved in investigating a claim - which is wrong.. his lack of memory on what parts of the judicial process are biblical - hello - none are.

there are no scriptures that backup the use of 3 men, a body of elders, cutting people off from family and friends, restrictions, etc.. he also lied about the gb being involved in policy creation and changes.. his statement that in all cases, elders are told to inform parents that they can go to the authorities and get the full support of the congregation is not verifiable.

Tornintwo

Cult. For lurking JW's..... please plug your brain back in.

hahahaha brilliant

These elders have been obstructive to the commissions goal of improving protection for children, which is unforgivable. uncooperative, pedantic, slippery, untruthful, unbelievably (lit) forgetful, not a good advert for 'the most honest people on earth! '

re. Iwasblinds points about Paul, he wasn't sent forth by the governing body, his ministry areas weren't assigned by the GB, he didn't ask permission or training from them to fulfil his Christian commission. A serious dispute arose which was threatening unity between Gentiles and Jews, unique to its times really considering they had just left such a detailed set of laws, and so the apostles and elders put their heads together on it, but they certainly didn't micromanage every aspect of Christian lives.