Posts by funkyderek

19

Can Non-Jehovah's Witness Resurrect?

by ApostleJon in

i have a question on resurrection after christ's 2nd coming... let say that some of my family has passed away without any knowledge of jw gospel or whatever in this case.

can they resurrect and join us in the paradise to live forever?

can they decide that they have nothing to do with jw but profess that they believes in christ and live in paradise with all of us?

funkyderek

One: There is no other book on the face of the earth that speaks more of FAMILY than the Bible, therefore, families ARE important to God;

A Suitable Boy by Vikram Seth is about 1400 pages long and entirely about family.

A search for the word "family" in the New International Version yielded 180 results.
A search for the word "hate" yielded 305 results.
A search for the word "sheep" yielded 202 results.

Two: The message and mission of Jesus Christ was to redeem mankind from the fall (or the presence of God), to "SAVE" them from being alienated from Him throughout eternity by showing them a better way to live life and through His atoning sacrifice;

That's debatable, but as it's completely irrelevant to the point we're discussing, I'm not sure why you included it.

Three: The Bible is full of examples of Jesus' interaction with families...(Mary, Martha, Lazarus, the Wedding at Cana, etc. etc....

Because people have families, and the family unit was very important in ancient Israel. It says nothing about Jesus' message

Apparantly, some ex-JW's still NEED to be shown a scripture for EVERYTHING (how simplistic and anal is that)...

It's not unreasonable, as the "scriptures" are the only record we have of Jesus' message (those of us who are not privy to divine revelation, that is). If you make a claim about what Jesus' message was, then surely you should be able to back it up with evidence.

Now He could have said: "Go your way and think about what I have done for you"...but he didn't , because not only was this miracle important to the man, but it played a major part in his family as well.What effects us individually, effects our family and vice versa, including the resurrection and eternal life.

How does that follow? It's a huge leap from Jesus telling someone to tell his family about a miracle to saying that that has anything to do with the resurrection and eternal life.

Ephesians 3:15 clearly has nothing to do with a literal family, I'm not sure why you included it.

Families are important to God...the scriptures clearly show that the one of his greatest gifts -eternal life -is not meant for the individual alone, but for families so that our happiness can be complete.

No, the scriptures don't clearly show that. I've quoted several scriptures which appear to show the opposite. The scriptures you quoted don't provide any real support for your claim. Now, call me "simplistic" and "anal" for asking for evidence, but which "scriptures clearly show" what you have claimed?

Now you may disagree, but then again you don't believe in the Bible or God, right?...so the point is moot. (correct?)

Pretty much. Whatever message the biblical character Jesus had, I still think death is the end of life; but if people are going to base their entire existence on what this character allegedly said or did, then they should know what the only existing records say about him. If you make false claims about that, I'm going to question them. (Or I may not, depending on my mood.)

56

Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.

by sleepy in

jw
friends

.

what am i going to do , i'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.. they are both flawed in different ways, and suffer from a lack of evidence.although change through evolution does happen how far this can go is unknown.complexity from design does happen but usually leaves evidence .also no theories can go far enought in answering the ultimate questions.evolution relies on a universe that springs into existance, creation on a god that does so.evolution requires many complex and unlikely senarios in order to have happened so does creation.the fossil record is incomplete and without the missing pieces we can only infer what else should be there.god is either very shy or has lost his voice and dosen't seem bothered to prove his existance.. yet i exist, and the very heart of my being , the conscious mind is one of the least understood phenomenons in the universe.

funkyderek

If the evolution of the species was as clear and straightforward as gravity there would simply be no issue here to discuss.

If people's deeply-held religious beliefs were invalidated by gravity, that would be as big an issue as evolution.

19

Can Non-Jehovah's Witness Resurrect?

by ApostleJon in

i have a question on resurrection after christ's 2nd coming... let say that some of my family has passed away without any knowledge of jw gospel or whatever in this case.

can they resurrect and join us in the paradise to live forever?

can they decide that they have nothing to do with jw but profess that they believes in christ and live in paradise with all of us?

funkyderek

Double Edge,

I don't think I can point to a certain scripture and say it says here that "God is Pro-family and wants all of us to be together after this life"...but who's to say that wasn't said, seeing that we only have the 'tip' of the iceberg, so to speak, of what was said and done.

That's a copout. You can't find any scriptures to support your original assertion that:

God loves families and wants them to be together, not apart...that was the 'message' of the Redeemer and Saviour.

so you appeal to the possibility that it's true but wasn't recorded. The story of the Widow of Nain (Luke 7:11-17) tells us that Jesus had compassion for those who had lost loved family members, but that's all it tells us. Jesus could have used that incident to declare his purpose, if it was as you stated but he didn't. More telling of Jesus' purpose are Matthew 10:34-37 (quoted above), Luke 9:59-62 and Mark 3:31-35

Luke 9:59 Jesus said to another, "Follow me." But he replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." 9:60 But Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God." 9:61 Yet another said, "I will follow you, Lord, but first let me say goodbye to my family." 9:62 Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Mark 3:31 Then Jesus' mother and his brothers came. Standing outside, they sent word to him, to summon him. 3:32 A crowd was sitting around him and they said to him, "Look, your mother and your brothers are outside looking for you." 3:33 He answered them and said, "Who are my mother and my brothers?"3:34 And looking at those who were sitting around him in a circle, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother."

Everything about these passages suggests that Jesus' message was not pro-family but that it involved the rejection of one's earthly family in favour of following Jesus. I'm sure you can put a different spin on those, but in the absence of scriptures to back up your claim, how did you arrive at your conclusion?

I once told my JW friend, who wanted me to "prove" everything with scripture, "the Bible is a great way to begin to know about God, but it's only one source of revelation...it only teaches you 'intellectually'...other sources of revelation (prayer, life experience, etc) is where you begin to know God.

So the Bible doesn't actually have the message you want it to have, so you infer a message through "other sources of revelation"? I can't argue on those terms for obvious reasons. If your argument is that Jesus preached a pro-family message but it was never written down and can only be divined through "prayer, life experience, etc" then you may very well be correct but you'll have a hard time convincing anyone but the most gullible people.

Edited by - funkyderek on 7 August 2002 7:19:2

16

what the watchtower says about the bible

by zev in

*** w65 7/1 391 what is required to understand the bible?

he does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organization.

*** w67 10/1 587 finding freedom with jehovah's visible organization ***

funkyderek

*** w81 8/15 28-9 Serving Jehovah "Shoulder to Shoulder" *** They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such Bible reading, they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendoms clergy were teaching 100 years ago, and some have even returned to celebrating Christendoms festivals again, such as the Roman Saturnalia of December 25! Jesus and his apostles warned against such lawless ones.

The above is such an incredible example of doublethink, it's staggering that the WTS had the balls to use it. If you take out the perjorative statements, they're saying that a study of the Bible and only the Bible doesn't lead one to the same conclusions as the Watchtower Society, but to those of "Christendom". Shouldn't that tell them something?

40

Whatever!!

by LuckyLucy in

jw
friends

what is your favorite one word saying..

funkyderek

Bollocks!

22

SURVEY Question RE: Disfellowshipping

by zev in

jw
friends

have any of you here, either by word of mouth or personal experience, heard of entire congregations being disfellowshipped, or nearly entire congregations, like say 50% or more?

thank you for your support in this all important survey .

from apostate central, ri .

funkyderek

Large groups of people were DF'd for apostacy or DA'd in Dublin around 1981, the time of the "Ray Franz incident." In some cases, I believe it was around half the congregation. I don't really know the details beyond that though.

89

Why do so many people believe that jesus is god?

by Legendary U.2.K. in

i still say that, christiaity is f--- up in these last days.. christianity teaches that the messiah is god, when the bible clearly points out that jesus is a prophet sent by god... jesus prayed to god<----that's the biggest proof... so i think if anybody believe that jesus is god, is not only an'-ti-christ(not accepting) but also a liar, foolish, and you knoweth nothing, and you are not close to god or christ, you are closer to that devil which we call satan....

funkyderek

Jesus, like many others was gradually deified after his death. As those who selected the bible canon were trinitarians, they selected the books that best supported their viewpoint, although those books were written prior to the concept of the trinity being introduced. Hence all the ambiguity. There's no point arguing the point because the available material is confusing and contradictory.

8

Starting to feel good

by truthseeker1 in

jw
friends

its been a few weeks since i went to a meeting.

it feels strange not having a whole bunch to do every night, but i am liking it.

it is starting to feel normal again.

funkyderek

Like a teenage girl right outa catholic school and all.

Yeah, I'd like one too.

69

Who Here Believes in God?

by The_Bad_Seed in

jw
friends

personally, i do not believe god ever has or ever will exist.

i have my reasons -- i guess i could be considered an agnostic, rather than an athiest.

i was curious to see what the larger part of the former borg community believed, now looking from the outside in, rather than the opposite.

funkyderek

Derek: Irish votes don't count, we all know their brains are waterlogged! LOL

I'll let that slide as it's probably just jealousy talking.

Actually FreeToBeMe gave the shortest answer: "I" Probably unbeatable.

Derek, of the believer in reality class

51

Explain this then

by Legendary U.2.K. in

(quote, messiah christ jesus) - "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but "my father only" <--that's proof that christ is not god, cause if christ was infact god,'dont you think he would know about the coming of his kingdom, also christ said" my father only" , um he said my father, therefore christ is the son of god, infact !!

!christ prayed to god!!

!<---you cant ignore that.. all this cometh str from the bible, and the bible tongues has/been change, but no the words, everything is true.. so prove me wrong, um you cant, so pay attention....

funkyderek

Yea that's right saintsatan, christ Was praying to himself lmao

"christianity(whatever thAt is lol)..

LAUGH AT BILLIONS!!!!

Why is it that these semi-literate troll types are always laughing so much? It makes them seem like village idiots.