Posts by marmot

20

This is the argument my dad used to justify "new light"

by marmot in

i was talking with my dad the other week and i revealed my doubts (well, not doubts really, conviction) that noah's flood didn't cover the earth.

he tried the usual, first he printed up all the stuff on the flood that he could find on the wt cd (even though i told him that i already read everything the society has ever written about the flood) and when that failed to convince me he brought out the ol' trust in jehovah(tm) line .

plus, he said that since i was so enamored with science to disprove the flood i should consider how science doesn't have the same position on certain subjects compared to the past and that it's based on progressive understanding.

marmot

I was talking with my dad the other week and I revealed my doubts (well, not doubts really, conviction) that Noah's flood didn't cover the earth.

He tried the usual, first he printed up all the stuff on the flood that he could find on the WT CD (even though I told him that I already read everything the society has ever written about the flood) and when that failed to convince me he brought out the ol' Trust in Jehovah(tm) line

Plus, he said that since I was so enamored with science to disprove the flood I should consider how science doesn't have the same position on certain subjects compared to the past and that it's based on progressive understanding.

This stopped me in my tracks for a bit, but something didn't seem quite right about that line of reasoning. True, science clings tenaciously to views that may be thrown aside after a new discovery is made, but old scientific views aren't covered up and hidden away.

Plus, science has a peer review process, unlike the "new light" system which relies only on the contributions of a self-serving isolated group of old men in an ivory tower in Brooklyn.

24

Wow, it just clicked. I'm agnostic!

by marmot in

i honestly don't think i've ever been this happy in my life.

of course, i've got bipolar ii so i might just be edging on a bout of hypomania but i'm good at taking my med so this could very well be genuine!

i'm so excited at the new look on life this has given me.

marmot

Nope, no PMs yet. I don't quite think I'm exactly atheist, though. I think there's the possibility of something that initially kicked-started everything in our universe into motion, but I don't think there's any omnipotent accountant-executioner in the sky.

If you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins I fall into his classification of agnostic.

24

Wow, it just clicked. I'm agnostic!

by marmot in

i honestly don't think i've ever been this happy in my life.

of course, i've got bipolar ii so i might just be edging on a bout of hypomania but i'm good at taking my med so this could very well be genuine!

i'm so excited at the new look on life this has given me.

marmot

I honestly don't think I've ever been this happy in my life. Of course, I've got bipolar II so I might just be edging on a bout of hypomania but I'm good at taking my med so this could very well be genuine!

I'm so excited at the new look on life this has given me. To think: there's no Jehovah (or other active god for that matter), no divine intervention in human affairs, nobody knows what happens after death aside from physical decay, no "sides" to be a part of, only the here and now.

I must say this is a very refreshing and empowering philosophy, it makes you accountable for your own actions and makes you want to try your hardest to make the present (and future) a good place to be. There's no cop-out future Deus ex machina to base your life around.

I don't begrudge other people their beliefs, though, but it seems to make so much more sense to base life around your actions and their effect on your world around you than something intangible and highly contentious like "faith".

There may be a hereafter, or a resurrection, or reincarnation, or whatever but it's impossible to prove so I'm just going to live my life to the best of my ability and hopefully die old and satisfied someday surrounded by a big loving family who will carry that feeling on through my genes.

Thanks for listening.

22

JWD Prophets! You called it, what next?

by Wasanelder Once in

you guys are amazing.

for some time posters here have been saying that big changes were afoot and that the "members only" wt would be used to announce this new light.

i admit i was apathetic and thought, ok, maybe.

marmot

My prediction:

The society will admit that Noah's flood did not cover the entire planet. Simple geology blasts this right out of the water (no pun intended) and it is completely impossible to argue for a global flood without reaching into a bag of miracles or sounding like a complete loon (like those "Answers in Genesis" blowhards).

Of course, they would also have to admit that Adam and Eve were just Jewish folklore because there's hard proof (carbon-dated, tree-ring dated, you name it) that humans have been around for much longer than 6,000 years. THAT ain't gonna happen because it throws a wrench into the whole theology, so they'll probably just clam up about everything instead and hope nobody asks.

And if you DO ask then it means you don't Trust in Jehovah(tm).

61

Exciting announcements at service meeting

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

we've already had a post on this, but there were other interesting comments.. the brother giving the announcements said that there would be a new understanding of jesus' reference to the generation as discussed at the annual meeting.. an elder giving a service meeting part review of different watchtower articles from the current year brought out the new light concerning 1935.. he asks: "when is the sealing of the anounted ones?".

elder answers: "there is no specific date".

later after the meeting, i asked an elder if the new understanding of the remnant now meant that younger people could go to heaven.. he answered with an affirmative "yes" and that we would be getting the new understanding of the generation jesus spoke of in a future 2008 watchtower.. .

marmot

I still can't see how the 1935 thing could be "new light" though, since there has been a member of the governing body for some time now who was born AFTER that (David Splane).

7

Serious question about WT policy on anointed immortality.

by marmot in

someone correct me if i'm not entirely clear on any possible "new light" on this issue, but i got to wondering about something that the watchtower teaches that seems downright frightening.

okay, so the "anointed" are supposed to be whisked right up to heaven after death, "in the twinkling of an eye" as the scripture goes, to an immortal life serving as princes with jesus and co-ruling with him for the millennial reign.

am i correct so far?

marmot

Someone correct me if I'm not entirely clear on any possible "new light" on this issue, but I got to wondering about something that the Watchtower teaches that seems downright frightening.

Okay, so the "anointed" are supposed to be whisked right up to heaven after death, "in the twinkling of an eye" as the scripture goes, to an immortal life serving as princes with Jesus and co-ruling with him for the Millennial reign. Am I correct so far?

Meanwhile, dull normals who aren't smoten in the great slaughter of Armageddon or who were fortunate enough to die BEFORE Armageddon and therefore earn the right to be resurrected will have to live out 1000 years on earth to gradually attain perfection. They are not immortal but only have "eternal life" meaning that they can still snuff it if the Almighty so sees fit. In fact, many billions of these WILL snuff it in the final cleansing supposed to occur after the Millennial reign when Satan is set free from imprisonment.

My question is, why would Jehovah grant immortality - ab initio - to a group of EXTREMELY imperfect humans who have barely lived at all (in a cosmic timeframe) when so far the only other creation to receive that privilege was Jesus, who was not only a perfect man to begin with but also had billions of years of prior existence as proof of his loyalty? It seems pretty risky to grant immortality to a bunch of humans considering the blatant imperfection shown by many of these "anointed" ones right up to their deaths.

Not even Jehovah would have the authority to smack 'em down anymore because he's given them carte blanche by granting them immortality. All those egos running wild seems like a surefire recipe to create hundreds of "Satans" after the first few hundred years of immortality get dull.

7

Anybody in Quebec want to meet a Governing Body member this Sat.?

by marmot in

david splane will be giving the dedication talk for the new st-georges kingdom hall.

my parents were going to go but that got sidelined by a funeral happening at the same time.

my parents used to pioneer there with brother splane before he received the "heavenly calling" (i wonder if you can buy one of those in the hunting section at wal-mart, next to the duck calls?

marmot

David Splane will be giving the dedication talk for the new St-Georges kingdom hall. My parents were going to go but that got sidelined by a funeral happening at the same time.

My parents used to pioneer there with brother Splane before he received the "heavenly calling" (I wonder if you can buy one of those in the hunting section at Wal-mart, next to the duck calls?) and got inducted into the even more exclusive ol' boys club in Brooklyn.

I've only met him once, when visiting Bethel, so I don't know what he's like but apparently he taught my Dad how to make boilermakers.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Type: Beer cocktail
Primary alcohol by volume:

* Beer

Served: "Neat"; undiluted and without ice (see also straight up)
Standard drinkware: A pub glass and a shot glass.
Commonly used ingredients:

* Pint of beer (~13 parts)
* One shot (1 part) spirit:
o Whiskey
o Rye
o Tequila
o Vodka

Preparation: Usually served separately

A Boilermaker is a beer cocktail consisting of a shot of whiskey, tequila, or vodka, and a glass of beer (therefore sometimes also called simply a shot and a beer). Traditionally, the shot and the beer are served separately, although they may also be mixed before by the preparer.

Execution

There are various techniques for consuming a boilermaker:

* Classically, the liquor is drunk in one gulp and chased immediately by the beer.
* The two may be mixed by pouring or dropping the shot into the beer. Stirring is at the discretion of the drinker. This technique is called a sidecar.
* The liquor can be poured directly into an open beer can with some beer removed ahead of time.
* A shot glass of the liquor may be dropped into the beer from the surface just before drinking, glass and all - this technique is referred to as a depth charge in some circles. Upon the shot glass striking the bottom of the mug, the carbonation in the beer begins to fizz violently, requiring the drinker to immediately consume the entire drink, either leaving the shot glass in the mug, or grasping it with the lips when setting down the mug.

Bartending guides differ on the preferred technique, but all agree that speed is the essence of this drink: one generally aims to drink a boilermaker quickly.

44

New Generation Understanding

by momzcrazy in

hello everyone, i am new here and newly freed from the snare of wtbs.

my sister, also newly freed, said our mom told her at the annual meeting there was a new "understanding" on the generation confusion.

it is now the annointed that will not pass away.. has anyone else heard this?

marmot

Gopher,

I don't think it would be that easy. This is the BIG teaching that determines who lives on after death in heaven and who gets resurrected on earth. I think there would be mass confusion if suddenly the gates of heaven were opened up - so to speak - for any ol' publisher.

What would they tell "interested ones" at the door? "Oh, what happens after you die is sort of up to you. If you like ruling over stuff and harps and white robes then you can go to heaven and be immortal, if you like tiger cubs playing with little kids, impeccably groomed lawns and conservative casual wear with sensible shoes then eternal life on paradise is for you!"

44

New Generation Understanding

by momzcrazy in

hello everyone, i am new here and newly freed from the snare of wtbs.

my sister, also newly freed, said our mom told her at the annual meeting there was a new "understanding" on the generation confusion.

it is now the annointed that will not pass away.. has anyone else heard this?

marmot

Welcome!

Yeah, this was discussed in another thread but I think it can have one more. To me, this new light is just a way of saying that the end is NEVER going to come because there will always be handful of anointed around. In fact, didn't their number increase since the 90s?

I know for certain that the latest addition to the Governing Body, David Splane, is barely older than my parents and he pioneered with them in Quebec during the 70s. He certainly isn't of the "1914 generation".

My dad (a firm JW) also expressed to me in a rare moment of candor that he doesn't think the 144,000 is a literal number.

Can you just imagine the theological mess they'd have to sort out if ever the WT society changed light bulbs on that tenet?

29

Tipping your hat to a lady is demonic

by marmot in

...according to the watchtower.

i don't have access to the watchtower library right now (i've only got a mac) but i remember laughing my arse off when i read that in an old questions from readers.

apparently tipping your hat to a lady is considered demonic because it shows deference to the lesser of the sexes, a man putting himself below the woman and other rambling "reasoning" about its origins in medieval times and such garbage.

marmot

Oompa, I found it 'cause I was bored and staying home from University one day and started reading all the old Questions from Readers in chronological order.

I had just recently read "The Finished Mystery" (my relatives' place where I was staying at the time had a wealth of old Society literature dating right back to the beginning) and I was pretty disillusioned by what I read. I laughed my ass off at the chapter that says Job was prophesying about the steam locomotive.

Ironically, I had engaged in this "deep study" out of a burst of zeal, as I was trying to get myself out of a bout of severe depression and "reach out" in the congregation. It was this past spring when we were just starting the Revelation book again so I figured it would be interesting to read all the earlier stuff.

Yep, a real eye-opener alright.

I also went to the bookstudy last night and was fighting so hard not to roll my eyes every three seconds that I got a headache. For those who haven't been keeping up, last night's study was about the "myriad of myriads of cavalry" whose stinging tails - in the form of "hard-hitting" publications - have inflicted massive harm on Christendom. It's even referred to as "the most devastating cavalry charge in humankind's history". Uh-huh.