I never could wrap my head around this belief.
If "the wages sin pays is death" then after we die all our so-called sins are wiped out. It makes the struggle of life completely moot, and just magnifies the sick logic behind god allowing suffering to go on for thousands of years just to prove a point.
marmot
JoinedPosts by marmot
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My Cousin Tells His Mom That Its Better That His Dad Dies Now B4 Armageddon
by minimus inmy uncle who is not a jw looks pretty bad and he's in his mid 80s and in the hospital.
my jw aunt is praying that he'll recover and see the "end" before he passes away.
she's very broken up by his recent illness, recognizing that it might be the end for him.
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marmot
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The wacky role of GEMATRIA in the Bible (numbers are letters!)
by Terry inwhat if there were no such things as arabic numerals (0123456789)?.
what if you only had your alphabet?.
you could use letters as numerical values.
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marmot
Quiet, damn you!
You'll wake up OBVES. -
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I am the Faithful and Discreet Slave
by jwblog inwhen i first attended the congregation of jehovahs witnesses i never even thought about whom or what was the faithful and discreet slave.
i do not believe that this information is ever taught to the public directly.
i think you have to be baptised or start attending the same meetings as those that are baptised.. anyway what made all of you adapt the teaching of the faithful and discreet slave (class or whatever)?
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marmot
Wait, what? This guy thinks god intervened to stop WWI and WWII? I suppose god caused the downfall of the Soviet Union and helped you find that parking spot last month when you were really pressed for time and you prayed to him about it too, right?
And since when has fighting in the middle east stopped?
I don't fully buy into the Dawkinsian debate about the (im)probability of a creator, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the concept of an interventionist god micromanaging human affairs. -
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marmot
Here's another great quote:
" During a November 30, 2000 meeting with Ric Osuna, author of The Night the DeFeos Died, Butch DeFeo confessed that, along with his sister Dawn DeFeo, he and one of his friends actually committed the murders out of desperation. This fact was confirmed by a letter written by Butch DeFeo. In his own handwriting, Butch wrote, "...it was cold-blooded murder. Period. No ghosts. No demons. Just three people in which I was one."
During the 2000 interview, the details of the hours leading up to the six killings emerged. The DeFeo household had been in a frenzied state during the evening of November 12, 1974. Butch's father, according to Butch, routinely abused his family. After that evening's tirade had settled down, Butch, his 18-year-old sister Dawn, and two of Butch's friends proceeded to get "high" in the basement.
Incensed that her father was preventing her from joining her boyfriend in Florida and worn out from the years of physical abuse, Dawn DeFeo approached her older brother about killing their parents. Butch initially refused. After a culmination of drugs, alcohol, and desperation over the next few hours, Butch finally gave into Dawn's ghoulish request. Employing his two friends, Butch and Dawn left the safety of the family's basement and headed for their parents' bedroom on the second floor. It was around 1:00 a.m. on November 13, 1974. While one friend waited as a lookout, the other, with his Colt Python, followed Butch, who had armed himself with a .35-Marlin rifle.
A votive candle burning on the father's dresser, the second-floor bathroom light, and a military-style flashlight that was later recovered by the police on the brown recliner in the hallway outside of the master bedroom was their only light source (See Crime-Scene Gallery).
The parents were attacked while they lay in bed. Mr. DeFeo, however, was able to struggle to his feet to attempt a counterattack on his assassins. A second bullet struck him dead before he was able to reach his target. Louise DeFeo lay in bed, moaning for help, as she slowly bled to death. A second bullet would silence the woman for good.
Although the original plan called for the younger children to be taken to the grandparents' house in Brooklyn, Dawn, according to Butch, killed them to eliminate the children as witnesses and potential threats. Butch claimed he was not in the house at the time of the children's murders, but giving pursuit to one his friends, who had fled the scene, in order to lure him back to assist with the cleanup. Even while feigning insanity at trial, Butch DeFeo never admitted shooting the children.
One can only imagine the horror on Marc's and John's faces when their big sister entered their room with a rifle. Dawn callously ordered the boys face down. A clue that the DeFeos were awake at the time of the murders rested in the final position of Marc DeFeo's body. Because Marc had suffered a debilitating injury from football, he was forced to sleep on his back. Yet, he was shot face down in bed. The prosecutor confirmed this fact at the DeFeo trial.
The next room Dawn entered was Allison's. Standing at the doorway, Dawn raised the rifle, taking aim as Allison slightly raised her head before looking into the muzzle flash. Death was instantaneous, as the bullet impacted Allison's left cheek and exited her right ear. Allison's wounds were meant to disfigure the beautiful girl.
Butch, upon his return and enraged at the senseless murder, confronted Dawn DeFeo in her third-floor bedroom. After briefly wrestling for the gun, Butch got the upper hand and slammed Dawn against the bed knocking her out. As she lie unconscious on her bed, Butch placed the back of the rifle to Dawn's head and fired. The murderous spree had finally ended, but the cleanup had just begun." -
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marmot
Uh isn't this kinda obvious? Demons, duh!
Demons are to blame if your toilet gets clogged, demons are to blame if you run out of gas on the way to a meeting, demons are to blame because porn pop-ups keep infesting your PC...
Meanwhile, I believe it was just a regular ol' ****-up in the justice system that didn't see a crime prosecuted properly, coupled with opportunistic greed.
Here's a quote from amityvillemurders.com: "Jay Anson's The Amityville Horror sold more than three million copies and was turned into a major motion picture that grossed more than $80 million dollars. The family happily went on a nationwide tour to promote the book as their "true story." Nevertheless, questions remained about the validity of their claims.
Butch DeFeo, however, believed the stories were concocted with the help of William Weber, Butch's defense attorney in 1975. In a handwritten letter, Butch wrote, "Amityville was a hoax that Weber and the Lutzes started. Yes, to make money. It started as my trial was in progress."
Although George Lutz proclaimed his story to be true, William Weber argued the story and Anson's book were not. In the September 17, 1979 issue of People magazine, Weber charged, “I know this book’s a hoax. We created this horror story over many bottles of wine.” -
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your personal favourite books that freed you from the JW's
by ninja in1/captives of a concept.....fantastic....thanks don...you freed my mind completely .
2/visions of glory...barbara harrison....fantastic insights......(god can't kill arnold) .
3/jehovah lives in brooklyn.....ricky francis.....he sums all jw's up brilliantly....love this book .
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marmot
The Book of Genesis and The Finished Mystery.
That's all it took, really. -
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Noah's ark - Can't believe I once actually thought it was true
by sam_sane_now inwhen i was a jw i didn't even question that the noah's ark story might not be true.
i didn't realise that it wasn't achievable for a handful of people to gather literally millions of animals - two of each kind - and fit them into a boat where they would all survive for many days.
i didn't think about the fact that if the highest mountain was covered with water then how could plant life like trees and flowers come to exist again, especially so soon after, with the raven grabbing an olive leaf was it?
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marmot
Gary, the biggest problem with your example is that witnesses tend to flip it around and say "isn't it wonderful that Jehovah was able to provide for the Israelites so they could get through such an impossible situation!"
Maddening. -
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Noah's ark - Can't believe I once actually thought it was true
by sam_sane_now inwhen i was a jw i didn't even question that the noah's ark story might not be true.
i didn't realise that it wasn't achievable for a handful of people to gather literally millions of animals - two of each kind - and fit them into a boat where they would all survive for many days.
i didn't think about the fact that if the highest mountain was covered with water then how could plant life like trees and flowers come to exist again, especially so soon after, with the raven grabbing an olive leaf was it?
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marmot
The flood issue is what pushed me out of the org. I kept looking for answers or, at the very least, semi-plausible explanations to questions like "Why are there only koalas and platypuses (platypi?) in Australia?" and "If there was a global flood, how come there is no geological evidence for it?"
Even when I was a kid there was always something about the Noah story that made a little voice in the back of my head say "Something's not right here."
Yet there are otherwise very intelligent Witnesses who still doggedly assert that a massive deluge wiped out all plant, animal, and human life on earth except for a small group of survivors in a fetid waterlogged wooden box just 4000 years ago. My uncle, for instance, has a PhD in psychology and is a gilead graduate but he refuses to talk to me anymore because I voiced my doubts to him about the flood. He refused to examine the scientific evidence I was pointing him towards and simply labels me an apostate.
I spoke with close friends, elders and my dad when I was still trying to come to grips with my wavering faith and the best line they could come up with was "wait on Jehovah". Well, I faded 8 months ago and the society finally released a new WT with a question from readers on Noah's flood and it completely ignores any of the scientific issues that conflict with the flood. Instead we're told to believe that the flood happened because the Bible says it happened and crams this line of circular reasoning down readers throats, leaving no room for dissent.
I still wouldn't be surprised if more people left over this issue, though. I know there are Bethel lurkers who read this stuff, so take heed. -
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marmot
Winnower, you're getting all tripped up over a non-issue. The WT has said before that the angels (including Nephilim) are indeed "sons" of god, but Jesus is the "only begotten" son meaning that he was the only creature made solely by Jehovah and without Jesus' assistance.
It's all a bunch of mythology anyway so it's like arguing over what Zeus ate for breakfast. -
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hm, i think jwd has been hijacked,,,
by orbison11 ini checked many many posts, and at the end of each one,,even if they were not on a 'religious' topic, the bottom of the page has an add for 'scientology'.
every single one i checked,,mighty odd.
orb.
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marmot
I've got the scientology ads too. Maybe the scientologists are doing a web campaign directed at Canada.