You wrote: ". . . where all the christian bastards walk around to check out who they'd like to have chaperoned dates with so they can sit close to each other at restaurants for 2 months so they can then get married before they can even drink legally."
Hahaha!! Funny! I like irreverent sarcasm. You're gonna do well!
garybuss
JoinedPosts by garybuss
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Intro&Convention/Meatmarket stories
by iamthewolf5562 inhey guys.
yet another n00b here in your midst.
let's see here.....i'm about to hit the big 22, and i just came from nc to the steel city.
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garybuss
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Don't let if fade........
by Outaservice ini believe the watchtower is hoping that their involvment with the united nations is something that will fade away and be forgotten!
when i was an elder, i would have left the organization immediately had i known that!
what hypocrisy after all they printed about the un beast of revelation, and here they were a supporter of it as a ngo.. everyone, should have the facts on hand if needed, and never let the issue die.. outaservice.
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garybuss
If Jehovah let the water in through the firmament then why couldn't he use the UN to benefit his book printing business?
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Who owns the wts?
by Fisherman in"the wts has billions.
" if it came down to distributing wts assets, who would get all the money and property?
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garybuss
You wrote: If it came down to distributing wts assets, who would get all the money and property?
The assets have been distributed already. -
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JW Conscientious Objectors Service or Service
by Wordly Andre inmy other post got me thinking, can conscientious objectors serve in some way and say out of jail?
here is a story of a man who served in wwii and recieved a metal of honor.
i can remember hearing stories when i was a kid about how these brave brothers didn't serve in the military and ended up in jail, i always thought that if it was up to me i'd rather serve, why can't jw's serve if called upon if not as a fighter why not as a nurse or in some other way?
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garybuss
Ironically the Witnesses never told me it was a United States General, an ex-Witness who went into the military, who rode a tank into Berlin and freed the Jehovah's Witnesses in the concentration camps.
Without the ex-Witness who came to their aid, I wonder how well the Jehovah's Witness martyrs in the camps would have faired . . .
I might be against war most days, but I still fail to see how pacifism would have stopped Hitler's forces from bombing London, kept Rommel's tanks out of Africa, or helped the children in Auschwitz. The Witness adults were there by choice, but the children weren't. -
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Jerry Bergman on JWs destroying library books
by Dogpatch inthe number of my books in academic libraries.
i have authored several scholarly books and monographs about the jehovahs witnesses.
my books and articles on the watchtower and related topics are found in hundreds of university, college and other libraries, and have also been translated into 12 languages.
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garybuss
Hi Steve,
I'm extremely loyal to Bergman, right or wrong. If Jerry's right I'm with him. If he's wrong, I'm still with him, just like he's been with me when I've been wrong. I don't care what you do wrong, I care what you do right. I've been wrong, Jerry's been wrong, but we're friends and we're trying to do what we can to help people. If that's upsetting to some people, so be it!
Will I excuse Jerry's wrongs? Damn right!
David Reed's another writer and another former Witness, that I like a lot, who helped my family. I doubt David satisfied scientific research requirements and passed peer review with his book "Worse Than Waco" but I like David, I like the book and it helped me and my family and the value in Jerry's and David's books to me is the content, not the context.
I'm interested in facts. I'm not interested in poisoning this well. I'll defend Jerry Bergman's character to my dying day. For me, it's not okay to trash my friend's character who's not here to defend himself.
You wrote: " At the end of the day, whatever argument I advance means nothing if I have inadvertently offended you in the process. I am sorry for that."
Apology accepted, let this fade into the archives. Let there be peace on the board:-) -
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Jerry Bergman on JWs destroying library books
by Dogpatch inthe number of my books in academic libraries.
i have authored several scholarly books and monographs about the jehovahs witnesses.
my books and articles on the watchtower and related topics are found in hundreds of university, college and other libraries, and have also been translated into 12 languages.
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garybuss
Hi Slim,
You wrote: "That is a little ironic, considering Bergman has used false names to present his work such as Havor Montague. Not just that but he elsewhere referenced his own work written under the assumed name without revealing he was in fact the author."
I wasn't aware of that. Please provide specifics. -
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JW Conscientious Objectors Service or Service
by Wordly Andre inmy other post got me thinking, can conscientious objectors serve in some way and say out of jail?
here is a story of a man who served in wwii and recieved a metal of honor.
i can remember hearing stories when i was a kid about how these brave brothers didn't serve in the military and ended up in jail, i always thought that if it was up to me i'd rather serve, why can't jw's serve if called upon if not as a fighter why not as a nurse or in some other way?
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garybuss
Hi james_woods,
Just based on my personal reading, Russell presented his views in a spirit of cooperation and Rutherford presented his views in a spirit of confrontation.
When Rutherford purged the Bible Students from Bethel the scum floated to the top. The kinder and milder Bible Students went away. Some like Paul Johnson were vocal and indignant and they left a pretty well documented history of events.
Rutherford attracted defectives like Fisher and Woodworth. Rutherford was so politically active that he got the Watch Tower Company shut down and all the directors thrown in prison for political crimes in second year of control of the company.
Paul Johnson didn't get thrown in prison. I'm not aware of any Bible Students thrown in prison for political crimes. There might have been some, I'd like to know if there were.
I'm not a historian by any means. I just read where my interests lead me, although I've read quite a bit of the William Miller, Second Advent, and Watch Tower history.
I'm still today kind of a fan of the Bible Students based on my personal experience, and I very much don't like the Jehovah's Witnesses today, based on my personal experience as well, so my outlook is certainly biased.
On your topic of anti-government, the Witness writings condemn the Russell Bible Students during WWII for cooperating (compromising) with the War efforts. The Russell Bible Students were religious in my opinion and they were social. Rutherford's mix was political, and anti-social. Only the Watch Tower name stayed the same. Everything else basic changed. -
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Jerry Bergman on JWs destroying library books
by Dogpatch inthe number of my books in academic libraries.
i have authored several scholarly books and monographs about the jehovahs witnesses.
my books and articles on the watchtower and related topics are found in hundreds of university, college and other libraries, and have also been translated into 12 languages.
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garybuss
Hi Steve,
So you want to take pot shots at Bergman from your mole hole? Fine!
Jerry Bergman's my friend. I'll go to the wall with him. You stay in your mole hole. Bergman and I use our real names and our efforts have come with great costs to us both. You can stay safe and warm in your anonymous hole and take shots at good people like Bergman who are out on the line using their own names trying to help.
Are you gonna criticize Bergman because his mother shunned him because of the work you're disrespecting? Did you know when she got sick with Alzheimer's and was no more use to the Witnesses Jerry took care of her?
Jerry has been a friend and a personal help to me and to my family and I appreciate him and his work. I don't appreciate you. I think you're a crackpot of the worst kind. -
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JW Conscientious Objectors Service or Service
by Wordly Andre inmy other post got me thinking, can conscientious objectors serve in some way and say out of jail?
here is a story of a man who served in wwii and recieved a metal of honor.
i can remember hearing stories when i was a kid about how these brave brothers didn't serve in the military and ended up in jail, i always thought that if it was up to me i'd rather serve, why can't jw's serve if called upon if not as a fighter why not as a nurse or in some other way?
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garybuss
Watch Tower Witnesses are not pacifists according to the Society. They would fight for the Watch Tower government. The reason the Witnesses won't work in pacifist jobs in the military is because their refusal is a political protest.
Same with refusing to salute flags. That's a political protest too.
Jehovah's Witnesses are a political resistance movement by nature. They're a political party waiting to rule the world. They have been ever since the Rutherford bunch stole the corporation from the Bible Students. Calling their party a religion is how the party stays in business. Using the Bible is how the party gets people to work for them and raise cash for the cause.
Rutherford's purpose was to punish the churches for laughing at him, for not appreciating his sound cars blasting them, and to punish the governments for not respecting him and his party called "The Theocracy". In this century with the current owners, raising cash has pretty much become the cause. Now the party is called "The Society" by the workers, and "The Organization" by the insiders. Religion has been reduced to a perihelial element. -
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Jerry Bergman on JWs destroying library books
by Dogpatch inthe number of my books in academic libraries.
i have authored several scholarly books and monographs about the jehovahs witnesses.
my books and articles on the watchtower and related topics are found in hundreds of university, college and other libraries, and have also been translated into 12 languages.
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garybuss
You wrote: you seem to miss the point
Thanks for pointing that out. I actually doubt that I've missed very much. Debating with anonymous shoot in the dark and run critics tends to bore me. You have zero credibility and I doubt you are a doctor. If you'd like to discuss credibility with me, you can start with revealing your name and resume so I can check you out.
For the sake of shadow boxing, Blood Transfusions by Bergman is presented as an evaluation of the issues and an exposition of the Bible's teachings on blood. I think that's what it is. I like it. Which page makes the claim it's a scientific work? I'd like to know so I can mark that page in my copy.
Jehovah's Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Illness by Bergman is presented as research, analysis, and recommendations. I think that's what it is. I like this one too. Which page in this book makes the claim it's a scientific work? I'd like to know so I can mark that page in my copy too.
How about you supplying a list of your books on these topics so I can compare your work with Bergman's? Can you supply that list?