Posts by garybuss

17

What to you do when you are being shunned?

by aprostate in

i used to be quiet around witnesses who were shunning me.

i changed my mind after my dad's funeral a couple of years ago.

i was their alone since i live in a different state; but, i guess everybody still knew who i was because of my mom.

garybuss

Hi Apro, All

I am in no way dependent on any follower of the Watch Tower Corporations. In that light, I shun them. I do not give dignity by my presence, to anything they might do by way of funerals, weddings, or anything else.

Their religion is an outrage. Their behaviors are the worst on the planet. As a group they do not meet my minimum standards for competency nor association.

I have disfellowshipped them. If they want association with me they need to make written application and if I believe they are repentant they need to come to my home 3 times a week for a total of 5 hours a week for a minimum of one year. They have to sit in the back and no one will talk to them.

I refuse to be in the same building with anyone who would shun me nor will I be with any person who will not attack anyone who did shun me. It is self abuse to allow shunning without retaliation. And it is abuse to be with a person who is being shunned and not defend that person in a way that all involved will never forget.

The Watch Tower Corporation's agents have tried to fractionally shun me for years. Those days have long been over.

Sorry about the loss of your father and sorry you have had to experience such horrible behavior. Wish you a long, happy, healthy, and prosperous life.

gb

70

Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

by gravedancer in

jw
friends

i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

garybuss

Schizophrenics often have a psychotic break that is religious in nature, i. e. they imagine they are Jesus Christ or Moses or some character their mind is familiar with. Often, in my experience, these types cling to religion as a context in which to try to function. A rigid religion with lots of rules and enforcers seems to give the suffers a sense of comfort, a sense of safety.

In a religious group these types do stand out, but not because they are the normal type. They stand out because they are not the usual type. For people without a good life and for people who see no hope for the life they wish they had, religion seems to provide a place for them to receive hope. The benefit to them is not in receiving the dream as a reality, the benefit to them is the hope itself.

I see this working in the followers of the Watch Tower Corporations. The death of their enemies, real or imagined, the concept of an easy, every need met, paradise to live in, gives them hope. And they go on. They experience setbacks and disappointments and at times overwhelming disconfirming evidence, but they continue. The reason for many is that if they loose the hope, they are hopeless.

Hopelessness is a terrifying thought to most people sick or well. When a person thinks of leaving the high control group, their first question is, "Where will we go?".

What they are asking is, "What will be our replacement hope?".

It is too huge a step for many steeped in religious supernatural superstitions from childhood to look at rational objective reality in the hard light of day. Many begin a journey into deism and advance to skepticism and rational inquiry by stages and time.

For many, to question their hope is to question their reason for living, their will and their very life.

If I am secure in my understandings, there is absolutely no reason why I need to lobby anyone else to adopt my philosophy. I only need company for my insecurities, my weaknesses and my assumptions.

Good topic. Thanks for posting it.

gb

32

No Escape from Religion - Am I wrong?

by Perry in

jw
friends

since every culture ever studied has been shown to possess religious practices aka.

spirituality, the axiom: "culture doesn't exist apart from religion" would seem to indicate that popular ideas concerning the non-religiosity of athiestic tenets are merely fictional.

i have always been amused by the propaganda the non-deists (and sometimes deists as well) use to spin their ideology.

garybuss

Hi Perry,

Are you saying that theism and atheism are opposites?

gb

24

What's the point of the Awake?

by Marilyn in

jw
friends

admittedly it's been a long time since i've read an awake and i can't remember much about what's in it but doesn't it contain a bunch of superficial articles with a general interest theme?

like a poor mans readers digest?

i was recently wondering what the purpose of the awake is?

garybuss

Hi Marilyn, All,

Awake! Is:

#1 A profit product of a printing company. The Watch Tower Corporation is, by nature, a publishing corporation.

#2 It is a very successful product. Several million demanded by each printing.

#3 It is a product to offer for sale (read donation) to the real consumer, the Witness people, and a product for them to distribute and suggest additional donations available for use by the Corporation.

#4 It is a way for the Corporation leaders to communicate directions to the group members by writing in double meaning language as well as by context.

#5 It is a way to introduce the disease of the month.

#6 It is a way to imply the approval of certain cooking utensils.

#7 It is another means for the Watch Tower Corporation to tell all things good about the Watch Tower Corporation and highlight apparent defects in competing groups..

#8 It works excellently to cover the Watchtower magazine during solicitation exercises at stranger's doors on Saturday mornings.

#9 It allows for secular non-controversial articles in case some proof of group sanity is required such as in a child custody court trial.

#10 It provides a forum to hide information from practicing Witnesses such as articles that favor organizations normally considered by Witnesses to be non approved, such as The United Nations.

Thanks for the question. Enjoyed the exercise.

gb

16

Belife in God ( The Problem of Evil)

by JT in

jw
friends

my wife and i are back in school again and we are in a philosophy class and the issue of god has come up in the research material and the following is under consideration for us- .

being involved in trying to explain the reason that god permits wickness i find the explanation that i use to use from the platform as a jw to be very weak to say the least .

yet i find that it is the same basic explantion given by most "beleivers" and it too is weak as tea.

garybuss

Hey James,

Maybe that explains a few things:-) I am surrounded by freethinkers.

They look for questions, not answers. And sages.

Glad you are having fun with the class.

gb

16

Belife in God ( The Problem of Evil)

by JT in

jw
friends

my wife and i are back in school again and we are in a philosophy class and the issue of god has come up in the research material and the following is under consideration for us- .

being involved in trying to explain the reason that god permits wickness i find the explanation that i use to use from the platform as a jw to be very weak to say the least .

yet i find that it is the same basic explantion given by most "beleivers" and it too is weak as tea.

garybuss

Hi JAMES

I have thought of the subjects of evil and sin and have concluded that both are flawed concepts. What is the nature of evil? What is the nature of sin? Is context important for the concepts to seem real? Would there still be evil on the planet without human presence?

How about sin? Could there be sin on the planet without human presence? Could there be evil on the planet with one human present? How? Could there be sin on the planet with one human present? How?

Is there rational merit to the sacred writings? Are they errant or inerrant? Are they fallible or infallible?

What gives one the right to question? And what gives one the right to accept?

Thanks for the topic. Hope you have a great week.

gb

15

What about normalcy? Is it even an option?

by watergoddess in

what about normalcy?

is it even an option?

am i hoping in vain for something that wont come?

garybuss

Hi Water,

When I was a witness I had instant friends, instant acceptance, and an instant social life complete with invitations. Everything was hermetically sealed and all laid out for me. I was trusted by virtue of my ability to keep on the approved for association list.

My life in the natural world is very different than that inside the high control group, I am glad to report. I have had to earn trust. I have had to prove I was respectable rather than just claim to be. I have had to be a friend first before I could have friends. I have had to invite people over and not expect a return invitation from them.

People in the natural world do not all have the same beliefs and likes and dislikes. Some people like to be left alone and that has absolutely nothing to do with me.

Some people like me and that also has nothing to do with me.

As for the JW's and shunning, I shun them. No exceptions.

gb

116

Whats the dumbest thing you were counselled for?

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

i was once counselled by the elders for watching 'knots landing'....it became widely known in the congregation that me and a few other sisters would rush home from field service to watch our favourite soapie.

if we missed it, we would ring each other up for an update...or...if we weren't near a tv we would ask someone to put the phone handset on the top of their tv so we could hear it...pathetic huh...but that was all the excitement we could scrounge up in our otherwise dull and uneventful lives.

one of the elder's wive's conscience got the better of her...and she confessed to her husband..lol.

garybuss

no necktie

16

DF? Sue for Fraud-New Strategy

by messenger in

jw
friends

it seems new directions may be opening up for those who have been tricked by religion.

did you sell your home before 1975 to pioneer?

did you pioneer thinking the end would come within five years?

garybuss

Hi Ros,

Good to hear from you. Yes a clearing area to keep tabs on the litigation might be good. Please let me know if you do get a forum started.

Hope you are having a good winter. All is well here.

gb

16

DF? Sue for Fraud-New Strategy

by messenger in

jw
friends

it seems new directions may be opening up for those who have been tricked by religion.

did you sell your home before 1975 to pioneer?

did you pioneer thinking the end would come within five years?

garybuss

Hi Messenger,

I have wondered how a suit for misrepresentation of facts and nondisclosure with intent to defraud might be possible since the Watch Tower Corporation so conveniently separated the book publishing, real estate company, and the holding company from the religion.

Seems to me they might have dropped their guard. In the past their behaviors have been legal in the United States only because they operated as a religion. Courts have been able to separate the secular elements of the corporations operating under the umbrella of religion for some time and treat those secular elements with secular laws.

If the Watch Tower Corporation wished to separate it's secular divisions such as the book publishing, real estate company, and the holding company from the religion for the purpose of limiting their liability due to the tide of dissidents uprising against the religious division, they may have shot themselves in the foot, so to speak.

It will be interesting to see how the attorneys, now preparing class action suits against the Watch Tower Conglomerate, proceed. Will they see the book publishing company having separate standards to meet from the religious division?

I personally think the Watch Tower Corporation was unwise to secularize the vast majority of their assets. Time will tell.

My best to all.

gb