garybuss

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Posts by garybuss

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  12

  I finally got my CoC book in the mail

  by truthseeker1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i finally got it in the mail.

  i looked in local bookstores and couldn't find it and resorted to purchasing it online...i hate doing that.

  it took weeks because i am a cheapskate and didn't want to pay for rush delivery.

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  garybuss

  
  
  Randy Watters has had Crisis Of Conscience on hand and he ships them cheap and fast. Plus the book sales help him keep on with his work.
  
  In reading pleasure please don't forget about Apocalypse Delayed by Jim Penton. Randy usually has them too.
  
  Best wishes to you all always,
  
  
  gb
  
  
  
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  36

  Marrying a cousin

  by A_Revelation in

  1. social
  2. family

  i was wondering if this is seen as wrong in the eyes of jehovah and wether it would produce unusual children.

  i was just interested.

  also wether it is legal in britian (where i live).

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  garybuss

  
  
  In the USA the close relative marriage prohibition is actually a tax code law to prevent the tax free transfer of property. It has nothing to do with reproduction or genetics.
  
  A light read of the history of family law indicates marriage was a vehicle used to transfer ownership of property. Women could not legally own property and they could not receive their inheritances unless they were married. Then their inheritances would go to their husbands (the family).
  
  The reason a virgin bride was required by men who owned property was to be sure his property was not inherited by a child fathered by some other man.
  
  Marriage at one time was a status but was reduced in time to a contract. Marriage is the only contract entered into by two people that they can not release themselves from by mutual agreement.
  
  It is legal for first cousins to marry in some states of the USA.
  
  gb
  
  
  
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  11

  What will a JW do if the Watchtower changes.......

  by JCISGOD98 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since the watchtower is known infamously for changing doctrine back and forth and they can't make up their minds at the headquarters, i was wondering about an important question that should be asked to every jehovah's witness that you may come across with.

  what happens if the watchtower changes a doctrine that they now consider old light?

  let me elaborate on this question.

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  garybuss

  
  
  If there is a huge change or a huge mistake, they simply deny the old teaching or deny they even made the mistake and all goes on . . . business as usual. They never see error or mistakes as a problem but they always see people who point out the error or mistakes as a problem.
  
  
  gb, who is seen as a problem . . .
  
  
  
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  25

  Gutted about the Kingdom Ministry

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its 2:15 am and i have to go to bed altho im not tired!

  i was so upset by that kingdom ministry about how to treat df ones.

  ill log off and when i sign back in in the morning, i hope to see 3546154263541658468154 posts on this making me smile and laugh cos im gonna need it!.

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  garybuss

  
  Hi Golden Girl
  
  When I rise above my own indignation and help one of those who insulted me in the past, I am behaving more the way I do want to behave and better than them.
  
  Some of those have had so little regard for my personal boundaries, insulting and offending me, that it is easy for me to retaliate and violate their boundaries as well.
  
  I force myself to be civil and rational. By nature and by their behaviors, these people are my enemies. Relationships are broken and rapport and trust is lost. The Watch Tower Publishing Company directs them to reduce connection with me to "family matters" and "business dealings" and they obey. I have contempt for them and it is very difficult to be civil and non-confrontational with them but I now force myself.
  
  Thanks for sharing your experience. You sound like a very kind person and I would be proud to call you a friend. Best wishes,
  
  gb
  
  
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  48

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not, ray franz owes us an apology) .

  (ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?

  this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.

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  garybuss

  
  

  Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

  An apology is a defense by argumentation. Ray Franz has tried to make amends and for me he has more than succeeded. His confessions have cleared up all the mysteries that existed in my mind relative to the Jehovah's Witness group.
  
  I owe him thanks and I have thanked him personally. He has delivered to me far beyond anything he might have owed to me. Thanks Ray!
  
  What I have failed to do is accept all of my own responsibility for being lazy and choosing ignorance and staying a part of the group as long as I did. I was responsible for being irresponsible.
  
  gb
  

  
  
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  12

  Eyes Open

  by WildTurkey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i look back at my life as a dub, now that i have my eyes open, sometimes i really feel like a fool, because some of the things we believed are just dumb, shows the power of fear and mind control.

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  garybuss

  http://www.freeminds.org/buss/truth.htm

  The Truth (as I seen it)

  According to Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Gary Busselman

  GOD is the creator, but since he only created Michael,
  and Michael created everything else, ("all other things")
  that would seem to make Michael the real creator,
  but only in a sense, since Michael is Jesus and Michael said to Satan,
  "the Lord rebuke you" makes the Lord powerful over Satan,
  however when Michael had to throw Satan out of heaven in 1914
  he had to do battle with his own creations, Satan and His Angels,
  and in 1918 when he selected Joe Rutherford to be his earthly channel
  and had to put the truth in the mind of Joe
  so Joe could write the truth in the Watch Tower
  and build Beth Sarim.

  All this would be hard to understand if it were not for the "salvation" doctrine,
  which is easy to understand since the living evildoers
  will all be made dead at Armageddon
  and the dead evildoers will be made alive at Armageddon,
  thus the living sinners will die and the dead sinners will live,
  except the dead who are made alive will not really be made alive again
  but when they die God kinda makes a sort of computer chip, in a sense,
  of all the information in their brains,
  like their memories, thoughts, and personality
  and keeps this stored in heaven
  and the Angels that don't join up with Satan help
  and then after Armageddon, God makes a perfect replica body,
  and somehow inserts this memory chip in the perfect replica body
  and then he will judge that new creation of the old person
  who was dead but is now alive, sort of,
  by how he treats the anointed who are mostly dead
  but are represented by the Governing Body, who are not inspired
  but only receive Divine direction,
  and by how well he follows the directions of the Organization
  and if he sins he dies.

  To survive Armageddon, the only way is to be serving God
  in the only Organization that has the truth, Jehovah's Witnesses.
  The truth is defined as the current teachings of the Governing Body
  which largely consist of denying their own past teachings
  and condemning views that are held by other groups
  that the Governing Body will someday adopt as their "new light"
  and "the truth". Serving God is defined as attending the five weekly meetings
  of Jehovah's Witnesses, reading all of the weeks lessons before the meetings,
  including underlining the answer to the questions at the bottom of the pages
  in the paragraphs with a red marker, (yellow highlighter is optional
  as long as it is used in moderation) answering any questions you may come up
  with by yourself, while you keep those questions secret and to yourself,
  by looking up the proper subject headings in the Index published by the Society
  and referencing to the proper Watchtower article
  while attending meetings for field service
  and going out in cars to try to recruit new members into the group
  and to solicit contributions to be turned into the group leaders
  in exchange for Watchtower publications that members paid for
  at the Kingdom Hall using the voluntary donation arrangement
  that was adopted after the Society failed in their attempt to defend Jimmy Swaggert
  in the Supreme Court of California
  after the Superior Authorities fell out of love with him
  and charged him with avoiding sales tax on literature sales
  and all Witnesses must do this or they die.

  Loyalty to "Jehovah's Organization" is important
  since surviving Armageddon is contingent on how well
  we vindicate Jehovah's name which is really YHWH
  and pronounced Yahweh by most Biblical scholars
  only since that was changed to sanctify
  and it now is to exalt Jehovah's Name, not to vindicate anymore,
  and to announce the kingdom that was set up in heaven in 1914 after Jesus
  returned invisibly in 1874
  and again in 1914 for the separating of the sheep and the goats
  by selling Watchtower publications door to door
  and then in 1995 this was changed to
  not separating the sheep from the goats
  but to require all Jehovah's Witnesses to believe
  that the separating of the sheep and the goats will be a future event
  to begin after the start of the Great Tribulation
  except that Jesus had to actually start his judging of the sheep and the goats in 33 AD
  and that he only picked 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
  and the number was filled in 1935
  and then the earth was going to be used for the testing ground
  for all the re-created dead sinners and Jehovah's Witnesses for 1000 years
  because this all ties into the date of 1914
  which was arrived at by Nelson Barbour by adding 30 years to William Miller's
  failed Apocalypse expectation date of 1844 which was arrived at by adding a
  year to the previously failed date of 1843, to arrive at 1874, which when
  the end didn't come, he added 40 more years to come up with 1914 which
  Charles Taze Russell adopted and changed to 1915 when the Apocalypse didn't
  come in 1914 then to 1918 when it didn't come in 1915, then he died.

  This is all so simple that a child could understand
  especially in view of the fact that the seven trumpets of Revelation
  were the seven Jehovah's Witness District assemblies from 1922 to 1928,
  starting with Cedar Point, Ohio and ending with Detroit, Michigan,
  only they weren't called Jehovah's Witnesses then
  but since Jehovah picked them in 1918 he waited until 1931
  to give them his name while the generation living in 1914
  and of the age of understanding, about 12 or 15, when World War One broke out,
  except it had been breaking out for a number of years before 1914,
  meaning that the generation that saw 1914 would by no means pass away
  before Armageddon started and "by no means"
  indicates that the majority would be living and never die
  since Jesus told Joe Rutherford that "Millions Now Living Will Never Die"
  by an angel and Joe wrote a book about the dead Princes,
  Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and others would be resurrected to the earth in 1925
  and live in a house he built for them in 1929 in San Diego, California
  except he lived in it himself
  because he thought the start of World War Two would be the beginning of Armageddon
  and then he died.

  Usually this is best understood by believing the truth as Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz
  wrote about it in the Watchtower since they knew that service was the answer
  and that six thousand years since Adam and Eve ended in 1975
  and that maybe, might, could, should be the start of Armageddon
  but they don't remember writing anything about 1975
  and they couldn't say for sure when Eve was created
  and besides so many were going to prison because they were loyal to God
  by refusing alternative service to active military duty
  and no one was taking organ transplants or buying Girl Scout Cookies
  and then they died.

  Sometimes the truth comes as flashes of light and the vaccinations,
  and organ transplants are now all okay and the drafted boys don't go to prison
  but stay at home to be elders and pioneers instead of going to jail
  and the sheep are waiting and the goats are waiting too
  and the generation of 1914 waited too,
  then they died.
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  25

  Gutted about the Kingdom Ministry

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its 2:15 am and i have to go to bed altho im not tired!

  i was so upset by that kingdom ministry about how to treat df ones.

  ill log off and when i sign back in in the morning, i hope to see 3546154263541658468154 posts on this making me smile and laugh cos im gonna need it!.

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  garybuss

  
  Kat,
  
  I have more than some responsibility for the current situation. I could have chosen not to be public with my dissent and continued to hide my own feelings and opinions. I could have continued to be a perihelial inactive member seen as weak and a candidate for possible return and acceptable for limited association.
  
  I chose to quit hiding and I really did want to know which friends and relatives were loyal to me and which ones would dispense with me on advise of the religion. All of the JW's dispensed with me on advise of the religion. That fact surprised me. Looking back, it shouldn't have, but it did.
  
  I would not repeat my course today. I would do my research privately. I would not go public. I would not confront any of the JWs I know. Now that I have done a more thorough job of researching JWs and religion and theism, I have a tolerance for religious behavior that I did not have when I started.
  
  I threatened them or offended them and they struck back. Now we have to deal with the strike back. By striking back, they threatened and offended me. The original issues have all faded behind the strike back. Initially, I was indignant mostly because of religious issues. Now I am pissed at them because of their behaviors when they retaliated.
  
  My initial issues were manageable and not relationship breakers on my side. Their retaliation was harsh and aggressive and now it will be impossible to repair those relationships.
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses do not own religious bigotry. They share in it, but they have lots of company. If I eliminate all bigots, I could get a little lonely.
  
  Most of my friends are religious, but I live in the midwestern USA and here superstition is considered normal.
  
  Hope you are having a good summer,
  
  gb
  
  
• 
  25

  Gutted about the Kingdom Ministry

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its 2:15 am and i have to go to bed altho im not tired!

  i was so upset by that kingdom ministry about how to treat df ones.

  ill log off and when i sign back in in the morning, i hope to see 3546154263541658468154 posts on this making me smile and laugh cos im gonna need it!.

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  garybuss

  No Kat, My loss.

  gb
• 
  25

  Gutted about the Kingdom Ministry

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its 2:15 am and i have to go to bed altho im not tired!

  i was so upset by that kingdom ministry about how to treat df ones.

  ill log off and when i sign back in in the morning, i hope to see 3546154263541658468154 posts on this making me smile and laugh cos im gonna need it!.

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  garybuss

  Englishman wrote:

  1975, then Jesus not her mediator, then no 1914 generation, then paedophiles in the congregations on TV - set that against just good plain love between Mother & Sons and I think that the WTBTS are just about asking too much.

  It was not asking too much for both my parents. Maybe I am just not that loveable . . .

  gb
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  25

  Gutted about the Kingdom Ministry

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its 2:15 am and i have to go to bed altho im not tired!

  i was so upset by that kingdom ministry about how to treat df ones.

  ill log off and when i sign back in in the morning, i hope to see 3546154263541658468154 posts on this making me smile and laugh cos im gonna need it!.

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  garybuss

  Hi Kat, All,

  Golden Girl, You wrote: So I get the feeling I am being "Used"...

  When my Jehovah's Witness relatives made the decision to start shunning me, they did it on a fractional basis and they did not inform me of their decision.

  They had family dinners and did not invite me. They just quit inviting me to anything social and they mostly quit initiating contact with me. Relatives died and I was not told in time to attend the funeral. The only time they would initiate the contact with me was if they wanted something like borrowing my tools or to ask me how to do a building project.
  
  My guess is your relatives will continue to accept your free labor under the shunning order exclusion clause, "family matters" and "business dealings".
  
  In my experience, "family matters" and "business dealings" have all translated into money or favors which can be reduced to money. It's okay for them to associate with me if there is a buck involved but it's not okay to associate with me on a human level. I say: "Screw em!".
  
  gb