Posts by garybuss

55

WTS Secret Police

by Pleasuredome in

heres a story of what happened to me at a district convention this year.. an unbaptised publisher and i travelled to wolverhampton district convention in england.

this wasnt our district but id been on holiday and had missed my own district convention (how unspiritual of me).

so me and this friend decided to go to this convention and was also hoping to meet a friend there.. on the saturday morning we were delayed in traffic and we eventually arrived at 11.30am, paid our 3 for parking (i wonder if they had the use of car parks for free?

garybuss

Hey Farkel

I didn't and don't have a problem with a religious book publishing corporation sponsoring a convention and inviting people who read their books and I have no problem with covering vending machines with recycled paper if they have a burning need to do that.

I do have a problem with the practice of writing "Out Of Order" on the machine cover if in fact the machine is not out of order. I do have a problem with book publishing corporation security guards confronting me for not respecting their lie and I do have a problem with being belly pushed by them.

Since that event I have had no conflicts with them of this nature simply because I have not returned to one of their conventions.

The security guards were at work away from the conventions too. While I was living in Vermillion SD in 1965 and 1966 and working nights in a bakery, the publishing corporation's security guards staked out my apartment by sitting in parked cars and watching the house for hours while I slept.

A group that would spy on members from parked cars for hours and days at a time and belly push a father and a 3 year old boy from a working vending machine in a public building is something other than a religion and is not at all for me.

Thanks for your account and best wishes always,

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

16

Response To My DA Letter

by LB in

jw
friends

it appears some have already received my da letter .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39417&site=3&page=1.

i received a couple of e-mails from those i sent it to and frank, the star of my da letter called and left a message on my recorder.

garybuss

Hi individuals wife, LB, All,

They waited 10 years to contact me after I walked away in 1974. They are an un-thanked people doing a thankless work for an unappreciative publishing corporation. Unpaid book distribution, working for a nameless director in a New York corporation is a poor motivator. The behaviors written about in the magazines and the reality are far different. Love is really blind obedience to the directions issued by letter or written in secret books, and faith is not questioning anything or anybody.

It is an inverted system where the strong leave and the weak stay.

LB, Nice letter. My bet is they hate to loose you but they are in a double bind. They can't deal with you the way you are, and you are not changeable by them. The best people leave and the worst advance to their own level of incompetence.

Best wishes always,

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

17

Is 1914 date flawed?

by badboy in

jw
friends

reasoning from the scriptures says on pp95-97 that months consist of 30 days.. years therefore would be 360 days long.. i have calcaluted(sic)that for every year in the `western'calender such a 360 day calender would fall 4/5 days depending on whether it was a leapyear or not.

now over a period of 2520 years,a 360 day calender would be 9,940 days behind a 364/5 day calender(25 years!

) therefore 2520 years according to book of daniel would fall in 1889!.

garybuss

It makes no sense to examine the claims of a group that insists it's magazine publishing corporation is directed by God without examining the God and the sacred writings. Can it be demonstrated the God exists without using dogmatism or magical thinking? Are the sacred writings without error and without fallibility?

What does the history of the tribal group that "discovered" the God say about that event? Are the sacred texts reliable without "faith"? and understandable without "inspiration"?

If there is a flaw in the basic authority claim of the group, the elements of the claim are rendered useless and not worth questioning. In the case of the Jehovah's Witnesses, their authority is based on their claim to possessing exclusive access to the invisible god of the Jews even to the exclusion of the Jews themselves.

Just from my armchair research, the history books of the Hebrew people written by them, plainly states that they made up the notion of an invisible god. I have found Karen Armstrong's book, A History Of God, to be a good abstract work on the invention of the personal, conceptual, invisible god by primitive, superstitious people, attempting to explain the world and the life around them and the justices as well as the injustices they saw every day.

I have no problem with any of that. What I do have a problem with is a religious group that demands absolute loyalty to the exclusion of friends, family, education, financial security, health, and even life itself, based on their authority derived from communication with a god that was invented by a literate race of ancient intelligent people.

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

17

Is 1914 date flawed?

by badboy in

jw
friends

reasoning from the scriptures says on pp95-97 that months consist of 30 days.. years therefore would be 360 days long.. i have calcaluted(sic)that for every year in the `western'calender such a 360 day calender would fall 4/5 days depending on whether it was a leapyear or not.

now over a period of 2520 years,a 360 day calender would be 9,940 days behind a 364/5 day calender(25 years!

) therefore 2520 years according to book of daniel would fall in 1889!.

garybuss

The date 1914 is not the product of the Watch Tower Corporation nor is it the invention of Charles Russell. The date simply came from the followers of William Miller who added 30 years to the date of the Great Disappointment of 1844 to arrive at the date of 1874 for the date of the second advent of Jesus and the accompanying end of the world. When that event failed they decided that 1874 was the date that Jesus returned invisibly and they added 40 years to 1874 to arrive at the date of 1914.

It can be read in abstract in the book Three Worlds Or Plan Of Redemption, by Nelson Barbour and published by Charles Russell. The Second Advent movement has a written history of the dates and events and the strategies developed to deal with the failures so the group could continue. Russell and the magazine and book publishing corporation he founded are products of the Second Adventist movement and he discusses this in detail in his writings. (See Zion's Watch Tower, July 15, 1906 pages 230-231)

Three Worlds reports 6000 years ended in 1873, p. 118; presents events in the context of "present truth", p. 30; and predicts Jesus's physical return on the mount of Olives in 1914, p. 84.

For history of the Pyramid measurements see the work of John and Morton Edgar. The pyramid inch and the British inch were not the same. The pyramid inch was .999 of the British inch. (See page 25 of section The Great Pyramid, It's Scientific Features, Part 1 of 1914 AD And The Great Pyramid by John Edgar)

The Jehovah's Witnesses have absolutely nothing new except maybe the blood medical treatment advise thesis. All the apocalypse dates and failure strategies came from the Second Advent movement from which Barbour and Russell came.

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

55

WTS Secret Police

by Pleasuredome in

heres a story of what happened to me at a district convention this year.. an unbaptised publisher and i travelled to wolverhampton district convention in england.

this wasnt our district but id been on holiday and had missed my own district convention (how unspiritual of me).

so me and this friend decided to go to this convention and was also hoping to meet a friend there.. on the saturday morning we were delayed in traffic and we eventually arrived at 11.30am, paid our 3 for parking (i wonder if they had the use of car parks for free?

garybuss

My wife and 2 sons and I were at a district assembly in Bismarck ND in 1975. I entertained my oldest son (about 2 1/2 years old) during sessions so my wife could devote her attention to the baby. At the breakfast restaurant I had picked up a roll of rainbow lifesavers for my son. Early in the afternoon they ran out. There was a candy vending machine at the convention . . . and I was saved. The machine was working and stocked and we got a roll of rainbow lifesavers.

The second day at breakfast, I forgot to buy lifesavers in the restaurant. I told my 2 1/2 year old son, "Don't worry, we'll get some at the assembly", but when I caught up with him at the vending machine there was a roll paper banner (that looked an awful lot like the paper on the temporary cafeteria tables) covering the machine held on with scotch tape that was hand lettered with a magic marker that said "OUT OF ORDER". This is a crisis. My little son looked almost panicked when I told him what the sign said. I told him that if the machine was really broke that we would go back to the store and get some candy. He watched with big eyes as I carefully pulled up one corner of the "out of order" sign and sneaked a quarter in the vending machine that I could now see had been freshly stocked. The quarter went "CLUNK" (sounded like someone dropped a manhole cover). Carefully I pulled the lever and out rolled a rainbow lifesavers candy roll.

Hmmmm repeat above.

Oops! Just as the second offensive rainbow lifesavers hit the tray, two Society assembly security officers (convention cops called "attendants") were between us and the "out of order" machine. They physically pushed us back away from the machine with their bellies and said in a rather arrogant manner "The machine is out of order . . . Brother." I said "You are a liar . . . brother."

One said" You wait right here while we get brother _."
I indicated I would be rather glad to wait for brother__ and that I was anxious to hear him explain this lie. Pretty soon they rushed back and asked me my name. I told them and they trotted off again, apparently to see brother _. Pretty soon here they come, briskly walking, back to confront the culprit (me), without brother __ . They said "Brother __ said you can use the machine just keep it to a minimum." I was shocked, my son cried, and it was a lie.

I was shocked and outraged. This incident reminded me of other similar incidents I had witnessed at Kingdom Halls and assemblies.

At the same convention, seated about 3 rows in front of us, a man was trying to quiet a small (about 3 year-old) girl after she had sat quietly for well over an hour. Her cries caught my attention but my eyes were glued on the man. He was being very rough with this cute little girl dressed up like a doll. He would pick her up and slam her body down on the chair. Finally she stood up and he started to hit her on the bottom and he wouldn't stop. I stood up, stepped down to him and he stopped hitting her. I told him if he needed to hit somebody he could hit me or was I too big for him? (This happened during a program lecture) This incident also reminded me of other, way too similar, things I have witnessed at the Kingdom Halls and at other assemblies involving the treatment of children.

The convention attendants are thugs and Witnesses sat and did nothing while children were physically abused right in front of them. I am glad to be away from them. I am ashamed to ever have been associated with them.

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

16

The JW Response to Brainwashing Accusations

by OrbitingTheSun in

jw
friends

i was just thinking about a discussion i had a few years ago when i was still an active jw... .

i asked a pioneer sister why so many people accused jws of brainwashing.

she happily responded, "well, they accuse us of brainwashing because that is what we do.

garybuss

Hi OTS,

The JW's were running from the truth of their ways back in the 50's. The Company Servant said at a meeting once, "People say Jehovah's Witnesses are brainwashed. That's true, our brains have been washed clean. That's why we have clean brains."

Apparently they are still doing that old twist today.

They are proud they been able to suspend critical thinking and rational decision making and have been able to turn over their lives to the Society represented by the elders, or their parents. They like to think they are clean and happy and saved from old age and sickness and death. They are comfortable thinking they are associated with the religious book publishing Corporation God is using to communicate his truths to all the people on the planet and somewhere in the bowels of the Corporate headquarters in New York City there is someone who can answer all the questions that could ever come up and answer them satisfactorily. Magical thinking in action:-)

Happy week,

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

10

Bismarck ND

by BadJerry in

.

we're out (the whole family.

still, badjerry us)

garybuss

Hi Wild
The Rainbow Lifesavers vending machine incident was at my last district assembly. That was in 1975.

Glad you have enjoyed the Okies. So many of the JW's I grew up around were a little strange. One was a woman who was in her 50's, married and manic. Her husband was happy she was a JW and gone a lot. She was a non-stop talker and nothing made sense. She didn't drive and tended to wear out the JW's who would pick her up for meetings and service. She locked herself out of the house one day and walked all the way to the hall and asked some of us to help her get in. We took her back home and sure enough the door was locked. We rang the bell and her husband came to the door. Hahahaha She was an anointed too.

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

10

Bismarck ND

by BadJerry in

.

we're out (the whole family.

still, badjerry us)

garybuss

I have fond memories of Bismark, ND. It was there that my three year old son and I were belly pushed away from a perfectly good, stocked, candy vending machine with a paper hand lettered "Out Of Order" sign Scotch taped across it, by two JW assembly security cops. God's organization my ass! Hahahaha

Welcome! I live near Sioux Falls, SD. We are 4 free and two in. Congratulations!

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

21

Angry Kids

by LongHauler in

all right, obviously i'm a little new here so bear with me.

just out of curiosity, has anyone here that was raised as a jay-dub felt resentment or anger or animosity toward thier parents?

i wanted nothing to do with the cult even at a fairly early age, but would a person feel that way if they had believed as a teen?

garybuss

For a victim of abuse, I think there is a point in the recovery process when the victim feels the time has come to confront his/her abuser. Many of our abusers were parents. Often when that door of confrontation is opened and the parent sees what is coming, there is an offensive attack in defence.

My parents were abusive by physical abuse or indifference to physical abuse, as well as abusive verbally, and negligent both physically and mentally.

I judge my parents by how they treat me now and how they treat people important to me. Until they change, they fail to meet my minimum standards for association.

gb

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

21

Is it possible....

by kelsey007 in

jw
friends

for an ex-jw to go through life without thinking of themselves or referring to themselves as an ex-jw?

how many ex-buddist do you know?

garybuss

Not every exit from membership in a religion begins a recovery. Witnessism is a disease. To leave the group activity and the constant reenforcement of the goals and tactics, the continual reminder of the current goal, is like trying to quit an addiction, it is escape from a hostage situation.

Emotions are laying in wait, fear, guilt, remorse, anger, loneliness, and hopelessness. Family relationships are either fractured or threatened. Finances are uncertain. Dreams and ambitions and talents have been put on hold or denied. Things rational, like education, or healthy, like modern medical treatment, have been avoided or hidden.

Gods and demons have been watching us and we even imagined some intervened in our lives. Books had power and our dress or our facial expression could loose or gain us status in the group. Everything was important and had hidden meaning. Witnessism is a disease.

gb