Nick!

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Posts by Nick!

• 
  10

  Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?

  by Nick! in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  christ presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.

  according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.

  it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.

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  Nick!

  Dozy, thank you for the link!
  
  I had missed that.

  Nick!
• 
  10

  Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?

  by Nick! in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  christ presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.

  according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.

  it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.

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  Nick!

  Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledged since 1925?

  According to the second WT article in the March 15 th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) “ Jehovah’s witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that Christ presence in his Heavenly Kingdom started in 1914”.

  Could someone kindly scan the English version of the above article and post-it online?

  It is the first time, at least personally, that I read such a statement in a WT literature.

  According to the book “Captive of a Concept” by Don Cameron, Chapter 3 page 22-23, the FIRST time the WT “recognized” that Christ’s presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.
  How is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the JW first recognized the “true” event associated with 1914?

  Anyone has a clue?

  Thanks.

  Nick!
• 
  6

  A Jehovah Witness serves as Civil Servant in Government Institution – What has changed in WT Policy?

  by Nick! in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a jehovah witness serves as civil servant in government institution what has changed in wt policy?.

  according to the new liberian (see link http://newliberian.com/?p=558#more-558 )an alleged jehovah witness, mr. andrew togba davies, a consummate professional, (who) indeed devoted his entire adult life to public service, working in various capacities as a christian minister, lawyer, educator, diplomat, and national security professional, passed away on january 3, 2009, in monrovia, liberia.

  he was 71.. the article specifies that he was a devout christian who, on december 19, 1969, after an ardent course of bible study, dedicated his life to jehovah and served faithfully as one of jehovahs witnesses until his death.. the article continues by saying in 1982, he began his diplomatic service as the liberian special maritime representative to the united states.

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  Nick!

  Quoting an exrept of the above article ...

  In 1982, he began his diplomatic service as the Liberian Special Maritime Representative to the United States. In that capacity, he worked tirelessly to secure greater Liberian participation in and control of the business and revenue generating arms of the National Maritime Program.

  Thank you Blondie for quoting the w90 11/1 pp.20-21.
  This article, however, although not excluding a role working in a government for a witness, specifically excludes a position as policy-maker (“accept policy-making positions in political organizations”).

  I would assume that, being baptized in 1969 but accepting in 1982 a position in a program to “control … the business and revenue generating arms of the National Maritime” is a “policy-making” position of the government, therefore of a given political organization, as it would be strange that a “government position” is not to be considered a “political organization”!

  In addition, doing this 13 years after being baptized excludes the claim that, to reply to Steve2 comments, “that was their line of work before becoming witnesses”!

  This is why this whole thing seems very strange to me.

  Nick!
• 
  11

  Lost years

  by Newborn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  friends,.

  i feel so bitter right now that the wt & co stole my best years...made me live with constant guilt, stay in a bad marriage, miss out of joy etc etc.. i just can't stop thinking abt it right now.. i feel my background makes me un-normal and that it's in some ways a handicap.. /newborn.

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  Nick!

  Regret Fokyc's situation. I don’t know how long you have been living this way, but it isn’t funny at all to live with someone with whom you cannot share your discoveries, questions, emotions and fears in relation to your faith.

  Fortunately, our whole family, wife and kids, were able to escape about 4 years ago.
  It was difficult, especially for my wife who continued for a while before realizing that the Org was not God’s Org. At the beginning she continued to go alone to meetings, but after a while realized that the “sisters” there were no real sisters nor friends, as no one ever approached her to ask “why your husband is not coming anymore”. The last hit was a TV program on cases of pedophilia in Sweden and how these were treated by the local elders and the branch office in Stockholm, supported by videos of reporters attempt to clarify the issue both with the local Swedish branch and the Head Quarters in N.Y.

  This was the last argument which enabled her to see the Org under the right light.

  I hope that you too one day or another can have the pleasure to see your whole family join you in your freed positions.

  Nick!
• 
  11

  Lost years

  by Newborn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  friends,.

  i feel so bitter right now that the wt & co stole my best years...made me live with constant guilt, stay in a bad marriage, miss out of joy etc etc.. i just can't stop thinking abt it right now.. i feel my background makes me un-normal and that it's in some ways a handicap.. /newborn.

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  Nick!

  I spent 59 years in the “truth” and regret the energy and resources devoted to a cult which has taken away the best of my years too!

  I feel lucky, though, because I am finally out! I can’t imagine spending the rest of my life in there therefore I really feel lucky to have realized that the WT is NOT God’s Org.

  You are still “young” Newborn, compared to the time I spent in there, so don’t be sad but rejoice of having finally been able to escape. You have still long years in front of you to enjoy life and do all the right things you never did because of the so called “Truth”.

  All the best my friend.

  Nick!
• 
  6

  A Jehovah Witness serves as Civil Servant in Government Institution – What has changed in WT Policy?

  by Nick! in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a jehovah witness serves as civil servant in government institution what has changed in wt policy?.

  according to the new liberian (see link http://newliberian.com/?p=558#more-558 )an alleged jehovah witness, mr. andrew togba davies, a consummate professional, (who) indeed devoted his entire adult life to public service, working in various capacities as a christian minister, lawyer, educator, diplomat, and national security professional, passed away on january 3, 2009, in monrovia, liberia.

  he was 71.. the article specifies that he was a devout christian who, on december 19, 1969, after an ardent course of bible study, dedicated his life to jehovah and served faithfully as one of jehovahs witnesses until his death.. the article continues by saying in 1982, he began his diplomatic service as the liberian special maritime representative to the united states.

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  Nick!

  A Jehovah Witness serves as Civil Servant in Government Institution – What has changed in WT Policy?

  According to the “New Liberian” (see link http://newliberian.com/?p=558#more-558 )an alleged Jehovah Witness, Mr. Andrew Togba Davies, a consummate professional, (who) indeed devoted his entire adult life to public service, working in various capacities as a Christian Minister, lawyer, educator, diplomat, and national security professional, passed away on January 3, 2009, in Monrovia, Liberia. He was 71.

  The article specifies that “He was a devout Christian who, on December 19, 1969, after an ardent course of Bible study, dedicated his life to Jehovah and served faithfully as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses until his death.”

  The article continues by saying “In 1982, he began his diplomatic service as the Liberian Special Maritime Representative to the United States. In that capacity, he worked tirelessly to secure greater Liberian participation in and control of the business and revenue generating arms of the National Maritime Program. After a period of exile in the United States following the outbreak of the Liberian Civil War, Mr. Davies returned to Liberia where he again took up government service, including serving with the Liberian Truth and Reconciliation Commission.”

  Funerals will take place on January 24 th , 2009. The article specifies that “Mr. Davies will be buried in Monrovia, Liberia, January 24, 2009. Funeral services will be held at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Paynesville, Liberia.”

  Never heard that a Jehovah Witness served the government as civil servant in a public office and was still considered as a Witness up to his death AND burial service in the Kingdom Hall!
  
  Has something changed with the WT policy on joining worldly institutions since their active membership as NGO of the UN?

  Nick!
• 
  82

  HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......

  by Mary in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just when you think you've heard it all............in my research for my project, i was doing some digging around on the subject of the 144,000 and came across something in the wts's literature that absolutely stunned me and, being the generous soul that i am , wanted to pass it on to you to get your thoughts on this.. .

  we all know that the society teaches that the 144,000 mentioned in revelation is speaking of "spiritual israel" and not 'fleshly israel' or even other christians in general right?

  there are countless quotes throughout the literature that we are all familiar with that specifically state this, but to drive home a point, here are a few:.

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  Nick!

  Dan wrote:

  ””” There was a bro in one congregation that I attended for a number of years who was a bit of a local celebrity among the dubs due to his knowledge of the "deeper things" and his fearless, even aggressive approach to the preaching work™. If anybody had doubts or found what they thought was an inconsistency in the Society's teachings, he was brought in to straighten the wayward soul out, and he would have no trouble at all running circles around your average JW on any issue like the one here. He really did a mind-f*ck on a lot of people, me included ”””

  Hey Dan,
  who was that elder you were talking about? Me?

  Maybe, ... if you look at the explanation the “faithful elder” gave Mary, as I did on my previous post!

  Nick!
• 
  82

  HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......

  by Mary in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just when you think you've heard it all............in my research for my project, i was doing some digging around on the subject of the 144,000 and came across something in the wts's literature that absolutely stunned me and, being the generous soul that i am , wanted to pass it on to you to get your thoughts on this.. .

  we all know that the society teaches that the 144,000 mentioned in revelation is speaking of "spiritual israel" and not 'fleshly israel' or even other christians in general right?

  there are countless quotes throughout the literature that we are all familiar with that specifically state this, but to drive home a point, here are a few:.

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  Nick!

  My Dear Mary,

  I have been an elder for almost 30 years, and I would have given you the following … explanation:

  “You should know, my dear Mary, that the 12 tribes of Israel did not equate the 12 sons of Jacob.
  If you don’t believe me, just take a map of the ancient Israel, and you will see the fact!

  The twelve tribes are nothing else but the 10 sons of Jacob, excluding Joseph and Levi, plus … the two sons of Joseph, Manasseh and Ephraim. This makes up the twelve tribes of Israel! And why Joseph was privileged with “two portions” of the promised land, instead of the “one portion” secured by his 9 other brothers? Simply because, and you should know, that Ruben, Jacob first born, went to bed with the servant of his preferred wife, Rachel! In Israel, the first born had always a “double portion” of the heritage of the family, compared to his brothers. Since Ruben, Jacob first born through Lea, had committed immorality with his father’s concubine, the father has taken away the heritage of Ruben and given it to Joseph, who was the first born of his beloved wife, Rachel.
  This heritage story is behind the “two portions” of the promised land given to the two sons of Joseph.

  The 144’000 heavenly class is a “priestly” class, which did not have any territory in Israel, because they were dedicated entirely to the temple work, in the so called “presence of Jehovah”.

  When Jesus addressed his disciples, telling them that they would be judging the 12 tribes of Israel, this simply meant that the “heavenly” priestly class of Levi, who represented Israel in its entirety, would be judging the rest of the sons of Joseph, now organized in 12 tribes.

  You should recall, in this respect that, when the Israelites left Egypt, the first born of Egypt were destroyed by Jehovah’s angel, but the first born of Israel were saved. For this salvation, Jehovah asked for the first born of Israel to be his own possession. Because this would have represented an obvious problem (how to keep the first born for himself, once these would be dead?), Jehovah asked Moses to count the number of first born of the whole of Israel. As the Bible recalls, that number was basically the same as the number of people making up the tribe of Levi. Jehovah then accepted the deal, in exchange of all the first born of Israel, he would retain the entire tribe of Levi. This tribe was therefore separated for a sacred service, similar to the one performed by the class nearer to Jehovah, the heavenly class of the 144’000 anointed priests.

  This is how, the Spiritual Israel, who is nearest to Jehovah’s service, represents the 144’000 anointed priest class.
  The rest of the sons of Jacob, the 12 tribes, can therefore only represent the rest of the inhabitants who, at that time, were worshiping Jehovah at his temple, his heavenly temple. This is why they can only represent the rest of humanity who will be worshipping Jehovah in the New World, under the direction of the Spiritual Israel, the heavenly priestly class who will also act as judges.

  In fact you should also remember that the priests in Israel were also those who judged the people at the city doors! This is why Jesus promised his disciples that they would be judging the 12 tribes of Israel, that is to say, the rest of the sons of Jacob, at the doors of the heavenly Jerusalem!”

  How about that? You liked it?
  And now here comes, the ex elder, pointing out one simple aspect, which destroys the whole beautiful picture given by the faithful elder above:

  “Well my dear friend, I have a real problem with your complicated explanation.

  You should know, as an elder, that the 144’000 class, according to 1 Peter 2:9, is not only a “priestly” class, but also a “royal” class!
  In fact, we read in the Bible “But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light”

  Now, if you so professionally have dissociated the tribe of Levi, on the ground that they were a “special possession” because of the priestly service they were performing in the temple, you should, by the same token, dissociated the “royal” tribe of Judah, who performed a special royal service.
  If you do that, you end up with only … 11 tribes, which cannot be the same as the 12 tribes of Israel, Jesus was referring to in Matthew 18:29!

  You better find another more acceptable explanation”

  Hope you followed the intricate reasoning behind this stupid situation!

  P.S. – if you want me, I can dream about the answer the faithful elder would give this stupid ex elder!!!

  Nick!

  WHAT A PITY ... THEY CLOSING DOWN THIS FORUM!
• 
  45

  Google, Apple & how Next Gen INTERNET will DECIMATE the Watchtower Society

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think the early 80's.

  one of the most important events in watchtower history was the release of crisis of conscience by former governing body member f. franz.

  slow distribution of this "apostate" book lead to a minor loss of members.

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  Nick!

  Hi friends,

  These few notes directed to those who are skeptical about what is already going on in the WTS.

  I understand that in the US you or your congregations elders can download WT magazines for the WT study directly from the Internet.

  In Switzerland, the Society has gone even further.

  You can listen (no video for the time being ….) to the meetings either via a phone call (kind of conference call) using a telephone number provided by the congregation, or via the internet, using an internet website where all congregations who have already adopted the system store their recorded meetings which you can download in MP3.

  The recorded meeting include the songs, the prayers, the conductor of the WT study (or conference speaker) and … even all the comments made by the participants.

  I have heard myself one of the meetings and recognized those participating and the conductor, as their names are also used during the recording, and … I do recognize their voices.

  Of course, if you don’t know the website, and if you don’t have the password provided by the congregation which meeting you want to access, you are not given access.
  But same as I had the “secret” information about the access data, anyone who is friend to someone who attends the meetings can easily get access to the recorded meetings.

  The internet is the Society’s biggest nightmare!
  They simply loose all control over it, no matter how protected their information is.

  Keep the good work going!
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  9

  1975 & Kingdom Ministry March 1968

  by Nick! in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anybody got that km?.

  just read a discussion on a french forum, where a quotation of a few lines of page 4 have been posted, where the message according to which at that time, the end of the 6000 years of mans existence on earth was only 90 months away .

  and that those living then would probably be alive when armaghedon would come .. here is the quotation.

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  Nick!

  Hi Investigator!
  Glad you were able to secure the KM.
  Would love to see a scan on the forum, but …. me too have the same problem.
  I don’t know either how to upload a scan of the document.
  Maybe someone here could tell us how to do that?

  Thanks.
  Nick!