Posts by Nick!

27

The Great Crowd are NOT Jehovah Witnesses ?

by Nick! in

the great crowd are not jehovah's witnesses ?.

this is a statement i read recently on a french forum.. according to the statement, when the name jw was adopted back in 1931, the gc, as we know it today, was not yet identified, and the new name applied solely to the ex international bible students association, all anointed members of the fds.. when later, in 1935 the great crowd was identified, they were referred to as jonadabs, not yet as jehovahs witnesses.

i have been in the truth for over 60 years, but it is the first time i hear about that assumption.. can anyone of you confirm or infirm this statement?.

Nick!

The Great Crowd are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses ?

This is a statement I read recently on a French forum.

According to the statement, when the name “JW” was adopted back in 1931, the GC, as we know it today, was not yet “identified”, and the new name applied solely to the ex “International Bible Students Association”, all anointed members of the FDS.

When later, in 1935 the Great Crowd was identified, they were referred to as “Jonadabs”, not yet as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I have been in the “Truth” for over 60 years, but it is the first time I hear about that assumption.

Can anyone of you confirm or infirm this statement?
If it can be confirmed, when the GC has become part of the JW? And, very importantly, where do we find these “facts” in the WT publications?

Thanks.

Nick!

35

PDF w/174 WBTS scans comparing lies and revisions of JW "truth"...limited time only!!!

by middleman in

hello, here's a pdf that was put together comparing many of the lies within the society's publications.

i will have the link up for a limited time and afterwards it will be available by request-send me an email and leave yours.

this is part one (141 pages) of two (perhaps a third) in the series being made.

Nick!

Middleman, thank you for the corrections online.

Do you plan to update your .pdf file and make it available again with those corrections?

Thanks to let us know.

Nick!

35

PDF w/174 WBTS scans comparing lies and revisions of JW "truth"...limited time only!!!

by middleman in

hello, here's a pdf that was put together comparing many of the lies within the society's publications.

i will have the link up for a limited time and afterwards it will be available by request-send me an email and leave yours.

this is part one (141 pages) of two (perhaps a third) in the series being made.

Nick!

Thank you Middleman for the additional information.
As you say, they don't explicitly support the statement that those two named representatives actually attended the meetings, but others, possibly in their name, have.

If you don't find any supporting evidence, suggest that you change your statement in your .pdf document.
Not doing so may raise unnecessary expectations and, more importantly, be a reason to discredit the whole excellent material you have put together with a lot of effort and time.

By the way, don't forget to let us know if you update your important document.

Keep the good work going, but don't exaggerate, the family first my friend!

Thanks again for putting your material at our disposal.

Nick!

35

PDF w/174 WBTS scans comparing lies and revisions of JW "truth"...limited time only!!!

by middleman in

hello, here's a pdf that was put together comparing many of the lies within the society's publications.

i will have the link up for a limited time and afterwards it will be available by request-send me an email and leave yours.

this is part one (141 pages) of two (perhaps a third) in the series being made.

Nick!

Excellent project, Middleman!

I started to read the long document. It is amazing how you have been able to put all this stuff together.

Now, if you don’t mind, as I am reading it, may I start asking questions about the statements made therein?
Maybe the comments exchanged would enable you to upgrade parts of it, or present some substantiating documentation, where needed.

May I start?

OK.
Here is the first question:
On page 17, on the UN issue, you made a statement concerning facts that have been “documented”, but it seems that the corresponding documentation is not featured in the .pdf document, and maybe you intend to include it at another time.
Here is what it says:

2. Mr. Gillies also said the sole (in English meaning only) purpose of the association was for

“getting access to the extensive library”.

This statement is not telling the full story either. It has been documented that after the WBTS

was granted association status, they were seen attending numerous UN

hearings/meetings/conferences that required a special ground pass. This pass is issued only to

the UN's associated members not just anyone. Two of the Bethel members that frequented these

UN sponsored events were W. L. Barry (Governing Body member) and Circo Aulicino. Now,

say I gave my friend a ride home from work and drop him off at his house. Before I leave, I ask

him to briefly use his bathroom and then I'm on my way. After using it he finds me sitting in his

family room eating his food, drinking his wine, playing his XBOX, and listening to music. How

does my credibly look to him after my extended “field trip”? Obviously I had ulterior motives

don't you think?

Do you have handy the referenced documentation?
It would be definitely impressive if one could include it in your .pdf file!

Thanks a lot for the hard work, and hope to hear from you on my above (first) question.

Nick!

42

We Don't Want to Know Why You're Leaving

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

our exit from the watch tower society was fairly speedy.

within about 3 months, we'd ceased attending meetings and lost all of our friends (apart from hobo ken and his wife).. what was shocking - and only confirmed that we were right to leave - was how our decision was met by our so-called friends.. we were leaving behind people whom we'd enjoyed friendship for over 20 years.

we were leaving behind friends who were closer to us than our own families were.

Nick!

Password, I quote all your are saying.

I can relate so much to your experience as I was “born in the truth”, baptized at 12, and had a enviable so called Theocratic career, but after about 60 years decided to fade away with my entire family, meaning wife and kids with their partners.
For about 6 months after I stopped attending meetings, NO ONE ever showed up, although I had been for almost 30 years a very prominent elder in the country where I live!

In fact the suicide parallel is very fitting!

When a suicide is made known in the media, in the neighborhood, in the family, the VERY FIRST QUESTION asked is WHY!
Everyone seems astonished that a given person, who used to appear very “normal” in fact, enjoying his life, his career, his surrounding and acquaintances all of a sudden, for no apparent reasons, decides to commit suicide.
Many may start saying … “if we had known, maybe we could have done something about it to avoid this drama”!

What a bunch of layers.

No one ever cares in this Organization. As long as you are “productive”, everyone seems to be your friend, accept and even search for your company. The moment you do not follow the rest, stop going out in the service and finally giving up attending meetings, even the memorial, it seems that you NEVER had such a life, that no one knows you or has ever known you.
It is as if it becomes a kind of major crime to give the impression that they know you, or that they meet you or share with you any event. You are just DEAD before the time.

This is the type of love, the true face of the so called love practice in this organization!

9

Multiple Bapstism

by unclebruce in

jw
friends

anyone here been twice dunked?

thrice dunked?.

it's unlikely any of you sane people here were baptised more than once but i knew a few who were.

Nick!

I don’t understand how is that possible at all!

To be sitting in the first rows of the baptism ceremony, and actually be baptized and announced as such at the next meeting in the congregation, one must first undergo the 120 odd questions reviewed with one of the elders assigned to the investigation, and only if “fit” accepted as a candidate.
Obviously, if anyone had no reason to be re-baptized (see my other post on this), no body of elders in their sane mind (do they have one after all?) would ever accept to go annually through that process and even less allow the person to be actually re-baptized!
And even if one would squeeze in the line of the candidates moving on to the baptism water and actually be baptized again, this would remain a psychotic behavior not supported by the Organization., and therefore not recognized.
One could actually travel around and get baptized this way in each different assembly in the country, as at the moment of the immersion, the person who performs the baptism does not ask for a “certificate from the congregation elders”, not even asking for the name of the guy.
In this way one can get baptized even several times a year!

Maybe you want to elaborate on how the case you are reporting has been dealt with by the elders of the congregation who accepts such a behavior.

Thanks.

10

Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?

by Nick! in

christ presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.

according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.

it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.

Nick!

Dozy, thank you for the link!

I had missed that.

Nick!

10

Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?

by Nick! in

christ presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.

according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.

it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.

Nick!

Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledged since 1925?

According to the second WT article in the March 15 th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) “ Jehovah’s witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that Christ presence in his Heavenly Kingdom started in 1914”.

Could someone kindly scan the English version of the above article and post-it online?

It is the first time, at least personally, that I read such a statement in a WT literature.

According to the book “Captive of a Concept” by Don Cameron, Chapter 3 page 22-23, the FIRST time the WT “recognized” that Christ’s presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.
How is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the JW first recognized the “true” event associated with 1914?

Anyone has a clue?

Thanks.

Nick!

6

A Jehovah Witness serves as Civil Servant in Government Institution What has changed in WT Policy?

by Nick! in

a jehovah witness serves as civil servant in government institution what has changed in wt policy?.

according to the new liberian (see link http://newliberian.com/?p=558#more-558 )an alleged jehovah witness, mr. andrew togba davies, a consummate professional, (who) indeed devoted his entire adult life to public service, working in various capacities as a christian minister, lawyer, educator, diplomat, and national security professional, passed away on january 3, 2009, in monrovia, liberia.

he was 71.. the article specifies that he was a devout christian who, on december 19, 1969, after an ardent course of bible study, dedicated his life to jehovah and served faithfully as one of jehovahs witnesses until his death.. the article continues by saying in 1982, he began his diplomatic service as the liberian special maritime representative to the united states.

Nick!

Quoting an exrept of the above article ...

In 1982, he began his diplomatic service as the Liberian Special Maritime Representative to the United States. In that capacity, he worked tirelessly to secure greater Liberian participation in and control of the business and revenue generating arms of the National Maritime Program.

Thank you Blondie for quoting the w90 11/1 pp.20-21.
This article, however, although not excluding a role working in a government for a witness, specifically excludes a position as policy-maker (“accept policy-making positions in political organizations”).

I would assume that, being baptized in 1969 but accepting in 1982 a position in a program to “control … the business and revenue generating arms of the National Maritime” is a “policy-making” position of the government, therefore of a given political organization, as it would be strange that a “government position” is not to be considered a “political organization”!

In addition, doing this 13 years after being baptized excludes the claim that, to reply to Steve2 comments, “that was their line of work before becoming witnesses”!

This is why this whole thing seems very strange to me.

Nick!

11

Lost years

by Newborn in

jw
friends

friends,.

i feel so bitter right now that the wt & co stole my best years...made me live with constant guilt, stay in a bad marriage, miss out of joy etc etc.. i just can't stop thinking abt it right now.. i feel my background makes me un-normal and that it's in some ways a handicap.. /newborn.

Nick!

Regret Fokyc's situation. I don’t know how long you have been living this way, but it isn’t funny at all to live with someone with whom you cannot share your discoveries, questions, emotions and fears in relation to your faith.

Fortunately, our whole family, wife and kids, were able to escape about 4 years ago.
It was difficult, especially for my wife who continued for a while before realizing that the Org was not God’s Org. At the beginning she continued to go alone to meetings, but after a while realized that the “sisters” there were no real sisters nor friends, as no one ever approached her to ask “why your husband is not coming anymore”. The last hit was a TV program on cases of pedophilia in Sweden and how these were treated by the local elders and the branch office in Stockholm, supported by videos of reporters attempt to clarify the issue both with the local Swedish branch and the Head Quarters in N.Y.

This was the last argument which enabled her to see the Org under the right light.

I hope that you too one day or another can have the pleasure to see your whole family join you in your freed positions.

Nick!