Posts by EverAStudent

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

Hi Bohm, I get it. What would be a convincing scientific find that would demonstrate that evolution was more likely the mechanism God used to create life than not? For you to believe in creation, you said it would take, "our DNA is NOT full of junk sequence" or some things like that. Would you be interested in seeing photographs of dinosaur footprints chasing and overlapping human footprints?

Honestly, I don't know. I know I have not yet seen it. Many times the evidences I have been exposed to that are pro-evolution keep getting shelved because of more current "findings." For example, I was once taught that the calcium deposits that comprise stalacmites and stalagmites could only precipitate at a given rate, thus showing certain caves were billions of years old in their ongoing formation. Yet, it turned out that calcium precipitate leeches at a locally variable rate depending on ever-changing ground moisture content. Heavy ground water flows resulted in greatly increased formation growths.

It is interesting that what scientists used to call "junk DNA sequences" and "vestigial organs" are frequently being more deeply investigated all the time and one-by-one being shown to have present value and use, not really vestigial or junk at all. These are all evidences and not proofs. Worse, scientific evidences have an annoying habit of being overtaken and replaced by new findings that force drastic revisions of old theories.

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

Bohm wrote, "EAS: I dont want to bury you and I, to, would really like to know your view on leavingwt's question, since in this whole flood debate it can sometimes be hard to actually find out what both sides theories are. But i do have something else that is more personal in nature and i really think is the first question that need to be asked: if we ASSUME that the bible said nothing about ark, and it said nothing about evolution/creation. ie. we take away ALL the biblical evidence and consider ONLY the secular. would you then believe the ark to be true? evolution?"

First, thanks for not wanting to bury me :)

There are no "official" creationist views on much of anything, since, unlike the Watchtower Society, creationists are largely independent in theology, science, and study, that is, there is no oversight board to keep us standardized. Many creationists will tell you that all species share similarities because they share a common planet. God said He made the planet to be inhabited. The differences are God's design. The design is programmed for flexibiliity and not stagnation. The DNA code has built into a vast amount of pre-programmed variations and pre-planned adaptations. For example, take a sighted fish school and trap it in an underground stream and without light it adapts to its environment, effectively becoming blind because there is no longer light to interact with. Modern scientists will call that a form of micro-evolution. Creationists see it as flexible DNA coding to allow for adapting to the ever-changing environment.

You asked that if the Bible did not speak of creation, the ark, or the flood, would I believe in them or in the dominant secular view? How could I believe in something I did not know about? For example, a couple of men who were ex-patriots from Jerusalem had only ever heard John the Baptist preach but had never heard of Jesus. They were later asked whether they had been sealed with the Holy Spirit. They replied, "We did not even know there was a Holy Spirit." They wanted to believe in the Holy Spirit and in Jesus, but they had not yet been taught.

Bohm also wrote, "By the way - thanks for being here! It is allways interesting to have a JW point of view to stir things up once in a while." Sorry to disappoint. I am a born again Christian, not a JW. I am on this forum because I had been meeting regularly with JWs in Bible studies for well more than a year. I wanted to know more about what they and ex-JWs thought and believed. Again, sorry to disappoint.

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

A straight up problem for all parties is the precise timing of the flood. The 4000-years-ago tradition for many creationists is grounded in the tracing of the recorded lineages. However, it is not possible to determine if there are families or generations not recorded in the biblical record. The ones that are there are recorded because of their importance to the story of humanity.

That said, it would seem unlikely that "millions" of years of history are unaccounted for, and I am not even trying to imply such a thing. Was the flood 4000 years ago, 5000, 9000, more?--I do not know. Was there a flood at all? I sincerely believe there was.

Someone asked above, "EAS, what would it take to disprove the ark to you?" What have you got?

IF someday it is genuinely discovered that Adam and Eve never existed and that evolution is the mechanism God used to create the planet over billions of years, then we would be forced to conclude that the creation account was intended as a parable instead of as history. How would that impact my faith? At one time, it would have been devastating. Today, I would shake my head at my lack of understanding as to how to read the first book of the Bible and the book of Romans and then continue in my faith that Jesus is the Creator, ruler, inheritor, and king of this universe. Jesus is the Christ, the Holy One, the Alpha and Omega. Without faith in Him, there is no salvation and no Christian faith at all. Saving faith is in Christ, not in creationism.

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

All good questions.

Remember that God knew that we humans would sin before He created the world and He even planned on a means by which to save us from sin before He created the world (Ephesians 1:4, 2:10). Therefore, He obviously never intended THIS earth to be an everlasting paradise.

Romans 5:12 tells us that death first came into the world when Adam and Eve sinned. This is why "creationists" like myself believe that the evidences used by evolutionists to theorize an evolutionary advance of life is wrongly interpreted. If evolution were the way that life came into the world then the garden would have been planted on a billions-of-years-old graveyard that also contained the parents of Adam and Eve. Death would already have been present, so what kind of a hollow warning would it have been for God to tell Adam and Eve, "don't sin or you will die"? Did they not expect to die anyway? So much for paradise.

I know that you have come to believe that the evolutionary scientists have "proven" that life came about naturally over billions of years. In so much as they have convinced you, they have "proven" their case. They have not convinced me, so I continue to consider the evidence of the biblical creation account to be persuasive. It is a matter of faith. Just as the literalness of the flood is a matter of faith.

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

A better translation of that verse into modern English is:

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; (1 Thessalonians 5:21 NASB)

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

The word "proven" and "disproven" have been thrown around alot. When it comes to literary interpretation (and that includes interpreting the Bible) very little can be proven or disproven, just studied, analyzed, assumed, alleged, believed, and disbelieved.

The goal of interpretation is to find out what the original author probably meant. This requires study and the search for evidences. Evidences is the name of the game, not proving.

Virtually nothing has been proven erroneous about the Bible, though much has been alleged. Many of the historical references in the Bible have been demonstrated to be valid even though once they were alleged to be false (e.g. the existence of the HIttites, the T-shape of the cross, etc.).

Evidence is rarely the same as proof, and allegations are of no value at all.

In my studies, I have found the Bible to be a book of high credibility as supported by the evidence.

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

Someone wrote, "Hmmm...Re the statement about Babylon being rebuilt - do you believe that because you have been TOLD that? OR because you've actually seen it and been there? Because that kind of thing used to be big for me too - however, if you google it, you will find that is not the case. Saddam Hussein actually preserved part of it, re-built part of it and there is a huge international effort going on right now to restore it. People DO still live in Babylon."

The Bible does not prophesy that Babylon will never be rebuilt or inhabited in our history. In fact, it states that Babylon the Great is preserved in some fashion until the end of the Great Tribulation where it is finally destroyed (Revelation 18:21).

77

How do you know the Bible is from God?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i really want to believe it, but, sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how it can be from god.

i mean, in the old testament, he seems horrible in some instances.

the adam and eve thing doesn't make to much sense to me.

EverAStudent

Cognac, one of the previous posters did you a great service, they told you that the Bible is most understandable when you know the hisorical roots of its writing. Think about how the fact that many people of the Muslim faith do not understand the freedoms of democracy (and even hate it) because they were raised to believe in a strict theocracy--for them the US constitution is almost giberish--they need to understand our historical setting first before they understand our writings.

A good and cheap way to begin is to obtain Eerdmans' Handbook to the Bible. Begin with page one and just read. It is really cheap when bought used online.

The Bible was written by genuine prophets. Every original word was true and accurate--the very meaning of "inspired." The Jews believed this, Jesus believed this, the apostles believed this.

After you have read Eerdmans, another really good text to read is Henry Virkler's "Hermeneutics." It is a short tutorial that steps you through the process of reading and understanding the Bible (Old and New Testaments).

Blessings.

17

I don't really wish to "Attack" Religion - but this is hard to ignore!

by AK - Jeff in

not my words.

not my total sentiments.

but it made me think, and that is the only reason i posted it.

EverAStudent

My preference is generally to read this forum (it is often relevant to talking with some active JW's whom I often meet with) but not comment much. Yet...

Certainly everyone in rich America could be more generous. However, even if all the "religious" people in America gave up all they had, the poor would be with us still. The fact is that America is the most altruistic nation on the planet, giving more in overseas food, clothing, and charity than any other country. "Religion" is the key determing factor (according to NBC News) in identifying the largest cumulative donor groups to charity. Up until recent years, almost all hospitals were relgion-founded (e.g. Saint Lukes, Saint Vincents, Methodist Hospital, etc.). I am not so down on "religious" types helping others. I wonder why non-religious types are given a free pass?

17

One easy question to stump a JW

by drew sagan in

for quite some time i have been tossing around the idea that there has to be a question out there, a question that can cut straight to the heart of what it means to question the watchtower.

last night while doing some mindless tasks i think that question may have come to me.

the question is: .

EverAStudent

Good comment on the Revelation study quote. A question that I have found to make Witnesses think (not a magic bullet question) is: How many firstborn sons does Jehovah have? They seem surprised to find that He has so many...