No, it is not possible to change the organization. The organization exists to prolong the existance of the organization, and so many resources go there that it cannot be impacted in a meaningful way. The only choices I see are to ignore it, destroy it, or provide an alternative.
VoidEater
JoinedPosts by VoidEater
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6
If you could make the rules for the society...
by wanderlustguy inlast night i was thinking about how the whole ex-dub community is so diverse.
there are the pepper spraying, door slamming, picketing, in your face types, and then there are the "i'm over it and moving on" types.
and of course there are a lot in between.. sometimes i wonder what could/should be done and if it's even possible.
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17
How many marriages are just "Theocratic"? Here's a story.....
by WingCommander inhere's my story......better have a barf bag nearby.
a while back i had stopped in to see an old elder friend of the family whom only lives a few miles away.
a stout, kind hearted gentleman with two sons.
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VoidEater
mrsjones5: Sex is not part of the Theocratic Marriage, though if it is there is of course only one allowed variation; children, however, are definitely Thecratic, unless they are rebellious - in which case the marriage is no longer a Theocratic Marriage, because badly behaving children are clearly a sign of the devil being involved.
;-)
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17
How many marriages are just "Theocratic"? Here's a story.....
by WingCommander inhere's my story......better have a barf bag nearby.
a while back i had stopped in to see an old elder friend of the family whom only lives a few miles away.
a stout, kind hearted gentleman with two sons.
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VoidEater
It means, "To all appearances they have the perfect marriage in terms of the Truth - they show up together for all theocratic meetings, assemblies, service; all they ever talk about is the Truth and how wonderful it is to be in the Truth and how wonderful it is to preach the Truth, and how every one else will be destroyed at Armageddon, and isn't that a wonderful thing". And that's perhaps all this father cares about.
Regional variations include "And the wife never speaks until spoken to", and "They host Thursday night study at their home".
;-)
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12
No Attempt to Rebuild Burned Bridges by JWs' "New Light"?
by Carl_Hernz inthe last three quarters of my time as a witness (just a short 11 years compared to others) was torturous because after i had read the bible over and over and over again, i was convinced that the only hope held out to me could be the heavenly hope.
when discussing this with an elder who claimed to be of the anointed, he stated that such feelings should just be ignored.
after getting word of it, another elder came over to my home and yelled at me for over an hour on how i could have the audacity to even consider something like this.
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VoidEater
The official stance is that since the folks that "had it right" the first time didn't humble themselves before the FDS, then they were indeed apostate or sinners in some other way. They marked themselves as apostate but not waiitng on Joehovah to put it right, and therefore have no standing to come back into the organization until they admit they were wrong - not about the point at hand, but wrong in rebelling against the FDS.
Truth is irrelevant; blind acceptance is all that's important.
That's what my dad was told, at least.
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28
Your Opinion: Worst action/aspect of WTBS?
by feenx inso i'm curious to get your opinions.
in your minds what is the worst part of the wtbs?
the abuse issue, money, false teachings/doctrines, control?
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VoidEater
Hmm...family told they "disassociated themselves" because they expressed doubts, and the suicidal despair that brought?
Or...a childhood full of rape at the hands of an elder?
Tough choice... -adw
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25
Opposite doctrines taught at the same time:
by whyizit ininsight on the scriptures volume 1: aaaron-jehoshua (copyright 1988 wts).
"jesus indicated that people of sodom and gomorrah would experience a resurrection to stand for judgement.".
compared to:.
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VoidEater
No citation, but my favorite:
If you're annointed, you are commended to preach (you are of the FDS class); if you are of the Other Flock, you are not directly commanded to preach (indeed, you have no direct relatinoship with Jesus Christ, and have only the FDS to act as your intermediary, according to recent Watchtower).
OK...so why are Other Sheep told they must preach door to door? Sometimes it is said they are "encouraged" or it is said "certainly they would want to support the annointed in this glorious work" - but which is it, are the Other Sheep commanded to preach or not? Why are those that do not preach, not counted as active members of the congregation? And what about those that are known to now preach and the pressure they are put under to do so?
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How we are dealt with when doubts arise
by jacethespace inwhen ive had doubts about the tower before i left, the elder i spoke to always kept saying that he would have to let the presiding overseer in the cong know about this, even when i said i didnt want anyone else to know.i was wondering what goes on when the po gets to know this and why do they do this does anyone know?
also in the past when i have expressed doubts they always suggest a visit to " encourage me" and then two people turn up usually an elder and presiding overseer.to me this feels like intimidation.and i have told them as such.. also when after the meetings the elders meet together will they discuss things about me amongst themselves?.
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VoidEater
From my experience, doubts raised to an elder can get you into grave trouble - it mostly depends on the relationship you have with the elder and your popularity in the congregation, but expressing doubts can be viewed as rebelling against the faithful and discreet slave, which can lead to charges of apostasy. If you're popular and well liked, you might just be eventually warned to wait upon Jehovah to set things right, and mostly to keep quiet about it until that time.
Expressing your doubts to others will put you on a quick boat to counselling and either outright disfellowshipping, or to an interesting status where you are told you have disassociated yourself (for not wholeheartedly believing everything you're told). My father was in that limbo for 15 years before crawling back and pretending to have no doubts any more. When his sanity reasserted itself a couple years later (by catching an elder in a mistake, and quoting the Watchtower to support his views), he was told he shouldn't be in the congregation because he was expressing doubts. He later got a second-hand apology over the phone on behalf of that elder.
From what I've seen (and I was raised in the religion since 1960), you can either choose to be a part of this church and BLINDLY ACCEPT everything you're told (including the contradictions), or you can get out. There's no room for conscientious or thoughtful people there - and literally Heaven forbid that you do any kind of research on your own, that violates half a dozen commands. And if you don't accept 100% of what you're told, why would you want to be a part of it?
Oh, yeah...because if you've been blessed with the truth and reject it, you are more damned than if you had never heard the truth in the first place - and you will be shunned by everyone you know. That's the real reason people of good conscience stay - they'll lose they're friends and fmaily if they speak out.
And please...don't tell me this doesn't happen, that family don't cut-off family, that expressing doubts on how things have been reasoned doesn't lead to these consequences - been there, done that, moved on.
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13
Do you pray for God every day?
by zhangyigzcn inand you believe that god will help you to get through the difficulty?
sometimes i believe in chinese fortune-telling.
according the birth date, face and thenar lines the whole life can be forecasted.
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VoidEater
Yes, I pray most days, though perhaps my praying does not match what yours looks like. I focus on the experience of being in contact with this things that is greater than myself.
Do not the scriptures (Jeremiah?) say that God already knows everything about us? What could I possibly add to that? But contemplating that connection with the greater part of what's there helps me keep centered and compassionate in my daily life.
God, in his inifnite uncondifitional love, doesn't need me to pray for him or to him; but it helps make my life work better when I recall I am part of something greater than myself.
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Is there a God? The musings of madman as he walks through the woods
by dawg inbear with me, i promice you'll be happy you read this, .
here at uga, i studied in the micro-biology department for the first three years of college-organic chem 3 pretty much ended my career.
i think evolution is pretty sound sans the fact that they haven't answered the question of how life began.
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VoidEater
I do believe God exists. However, what I think God is supposed "to do", what functions he/she/it serves in my life, may be very different than what you expect from God. Over time, one might tease out of the stories and teachings and guesses and superstitions of what, exactly, the "powers" that God has are, and from that perhaps decide what roles he/she/it is supposed to fill.
In my experience, God is utterly alien - we think, we rationalize, we see cause and effect, we create, we destroy, and then most of us try to make God the source of all these things. I'm not so sure that God thinks, or experiences emotions as we do, or plays any part in Earthly mundane life.
To want to believe in God begs the question for me - what, then, is God supposed to do for us? Did he create the universe, does he teach us how to live, does he smite the evildoer - what exactly is expected of Him? And why would he care to do any of these things?
I believe Joe Jackson comments in a song something like, "The Force is a pretty big thing, but what makes you think it gives a s*** about you?" I'm not sure there's value in applying scorn to God, either, but something of that does coincide with my own beliefs. My experiential reality informs me that God does indeed exist; my everyday life informs me that he simply is not involved in my external world. There is something larger than me that I feel connected to, and my psyche applies the label "God" to that.
In the end, trying to debate the existance of God is moot. You either decide to believe in God, or not, and accept all the psychological baggage that comes with either choice. But if you're expecting to see miracles in the everyday world - well, those come from us humans doing good things.
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Were you ever afraid of demons?
by Regretful_J inhello everyone, my story is a unique one i suppose but here it goes.,, ever since i was a little boy whenever i would voice my objections about this religion my parents would tell me im making satan happy and that i'm inviting demons into are house by saying and thinking things like this.
my parents are such religious fanatics that it seems like nothing i do can ever be good enough for them.
to this day they always claim that they come down hard on me like this because "they're trying to protect me".
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VoidEater
As a child, anything unexpected (sights, sounds, etc.) were laid at the dorrstep of demons. Frightening stories of possessed TVs with human hands coming out of them, or poltergeist activity with dishes flying and an attacking broom, were common.
If took 20 years of therapy to get beyond these superstitions.
I don't want to imply that there's "nothing out there" - I have had some profound spiritual experiences. But in all of my journeys, in all of my questing, I have not found any evil spirits (demons). Everything I've seen - mundane to wondrous - has always had some other cause.