Posts by VoidEater

50

Is Your Personality Quite Different In "Real" Life Than It Is Here?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are you pretty much the same here as you are in real life??

?.

VoidEater

But Jeff, I love your tiger suit! How else will I recognize you in RL?

Yes, what you see is what you get - irreverent, hopefully thoughtful, aspiring to humor, with an effort towards polity.

25

Are there things you can't get rid of?

by faundy in

for instance, i still can't bring myself to say 'bless you' when someone sneezes.

i still cringe when saying 'good luck' and even now i feel i am being really naughty when shopping for a birthday card for someone.

.

Don't say "bless you" to a Sneezer because it comes from the Pagan ritual of tyring to make sure a sneeze-expelled demon doesn't go back into your body. We don't engage in such false beliefs or practices as banishing demons from sneezes.

Other "bless you" teachings is that we as imperfect humans have no ability to bless anyone. Only God can bless.

Can't quote a WT on those, but that's how I was raised and I think I remember reading about the "Pagan practice" of saying Gesundheit ("bless you") - about the same time as reading about the Pagan (and therefore Satanic) origins of cameo jewelry.

24

NEED HELP WITH 'NEW LIGHT' & THE GENERATION DOCTRINE

by Mary in

i was talking to gumby today and he told me that one elder that he knows said: "...he heard a gb mention of some new light about the "generation".

he said the gb member said they now believe that scripture applied to only the annointed...".

have we had any discussions on jwd about this?

VoidEater

How terribly convenient - I wonder how this impacts all my greatgrands and grands who understood "millions now living will never die" to actually apply to them personally? Oops, most of them are dead! I'm sure my 85 year-old grandmother will take great comfort knowing that not only does she no longer have a relationship with Christ but for the intermediaries of the FDS, but now The End may very well come AFTER she dies.

Amazing...it's so clear that everyone writing the words "millions now living will never die" meant that quite literally, and how so many looked forward to eternal life on a paradise Earth never having tasted death...and how much the early Bible Students rejected Papacy and requiring an intermediary with God other than Christ, yet now we see no one but the 144,000 get to pray to Christ...

If my parents had heard this "new light" prior to 1970, they would have fled; yet somehow over time, first with little things and then with big, their entire foundation of spirituality has been stolen from them. My dad's on the right track, though, and will probably get DAed again within a year.

And my mom - it's funny, I don't think she believes a word of what they say, I think she believes they'll get around to "getting it right" sooner or later", because she has no real relationships outside the church - but for me and her sister, so maybe that's a start!

8

The writers for TV on strike...wish the WTBTS writes would do the same!

by megsmomma in

jw
friends

wouldn't it be nice if the writers for the society would go on strike and say they are tired of writing lies for the "governing body"?

!

VoidEater

It's kind of a one-way road out...I think Ray Franz may have some perspective...

25

Are there things you can't get rid of?

by faundy in

for instance, i still can't bring myself to say 'bless you' when someone sneezes.

i still cringe when saying 'good luck' and even now i feel i am being really naughty when shopping for a birthday card for someone.

.

VoidEater

It gets better with time and practice...

71

HAVE SOME FUN WITH THE NOV WT COVER!!

by Mary in

jw
friends

ok, here's the original:.

.

and here's a blank one for you:.

VoidEater

"Waiting on Jehovah to Provide the Right Food - How Cannibalism Started"

14

This is what kept me from moving on a long time

by the_end_of_eternity in

pascal's bet.

so it follows that if you believe in god, you gain all, or it is neutral.

on the other then, when you do not believe in god, you loose everything or it is neutral.

VoidEater

Hi Gopher: It is a slippery slope, though, to presume that our preferences (even when they seem universal) should be applied to other people. After all, some people seem to NEED to be manipulated and controlled, and they find religious organizations to provide that for them...and, as the Stones sang, You can't always get what you want - but you get what you need. Mmm...on second thought, that's too scary a God to believe in...

Yes, end_of_eternity, you accurately lambast the argument. It's predicated on a simplistic view of God, attributes human desires to him/her/it, does not take into account even a portion of the variables, and does not even allow for regression analysis. But, you know, if that's the only world you've been brought up to see, I understand why it takes so long to break free.

236

For the ladies. Do you think that when you.....

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

dress to impress, get all slathered up and have your little or lots of flesh showing, depending on your blouse, skirt, pants or shorts....that people(men) are not supposed to stare at you?.

seriously, if your at home in your closet deciding which outfit you're gonna wear to work, school or out to play, and thinking how you'll look more attractive in this or that....do you not know that guys are gonna stare at you?

but you see these females on occasion that will get all in an uproar when some guy is staring at them....but hello...didn't you choose with pin-point accuracy, the exact top that's gonna reveal your cleavage at it's fullest?????

VoidEater

Is this a matter of dressing suggestively for that effect?

Is this a matter of some men will ogle anything?

What is considered attractive, or professional, or sexy, or revealing, or "normal", is highly relative and bound in culture. And, you can point out anything in the Sears catalog and someone, somewhere will think it's "hot".

Methinks Nota is looking for an excuse for bad behavior. Yes, it is wrong for you to stare at someone the way you suggest you are staring at them, and wrong to blame them for "making you do it". Frankly, Lady Godiva should have the opportunity to prance around on her horse in the street without you letting your eyes bug out of your sockets (unless the horse is really impressive...).

Men (and women) do need to take responsiblity for the way they conduct themselves in polite society. Save the staring for the strip show. Treat everyone in public with respect, whether they're wearing a burka or a g-string. The problem is not in the clothing - it's in the observer's attitude.

And...there are ways to express appreciation without dominating or intimidating or freaking out the beauty that passes in front of our eyes.

6

vacuum and hopelessness

by spiritboi in

wonder how u guys and gals felt when you found out that the "truth" isn't the truth.

were u happy?.

you know, last nite i couldn't sleep.

VoidEater

Gopher and Blue as always have the right things to say...

Yes, it was scary because I had become so dependent on being told what to do - having been raised in "the truth", I had it not only from the congregation of others, but as a way of life from infancy. This is why it was so easy for my abuser to have 12 years of my body all to himself. i only bring that up to show the totality of the control mechanisms in place for me - it was inconcievable that there might be a better life, or that I personally might have a better way to live life. It was all presented as the One True Way, and please No Thinking or Felling On Your Own.

But I knew there was something more true for me. And the inner revelations that I needed in life did come about after learning to quiet the mind and listen to the inner experience of existing.

Vipassana meditation starts as a practice of observation. When a thought comes up, observe it, and let it go - as if a leaf on a stream. Get some distance between your thoughts and the observer part of you. Acknowledge each thought, and let it go. Focus, instead, on the experience of breathing. What does it feel like to breathe? Where does the air enter your body, and where does it travel? Take in a slow measured breath, hold it a moment, let it slowly out. If a thought comes up, acknowledge it, and let it go to return to the breath.

Train your awareness. Notice the thoughts in your awareness. Notice the sensations in your awareness.

When everything else passes away, yet awareness remains, notice that part of you that is aware, that observes.

That may be the beginning of an incredible journey...

I was not entirely empty when I left, though. I was half pushed out by the hypocrisy and the abuse (of many kinds), and the politics (the powerful get away with adultery, the humble get DFed for childish behavior), and half drawn toward the hope of a better life.

The still small voice within has been a great teacher and guide to a satisfying and authentic life...

25

If I am disfellowshipped, will my family get disfellowshipped they...

by LayingLow in

i have some family that would continue to associate with me even if i were disfellowshipped.

it is known by them that i am not truly an apostate (from yhwh and jesus).

i have come to a different conclusion than them after three years of intense activity at the hall.

VoidEater

First, let me say my heart goes out to you. I'm sure there's not only the issues of family relationships, but indeed the crisis of conscience and the pulling away from what has in at least some ways been a source of support. As someone else already encouraged, find some relationship outside the organization - as you may already know, not everyone in "the world" is toxic or ungodly or evil!

There are first the variances between official doctrine and daily practice, the differences between living in a household with family members as opposed to not living with them, the "sin" for which you are DFed if it gets that far (apostasy - which is telling others you do not agree with an interpretation - being the unforgiveable sin), and your actual status. Oh, and if your family members happen to start associating with you but then go to the elders and repent, as well as the attitudes of the individual elders in their congregation(s).

What I've seen in my family is those living in the same house (and usually closely related - parents/children, spouses) can continue life as usual. I've seen one case in a close friend's family where the husband was encouraged to not live in the same house as his DFed wife, cautioned against speaking on spiritual matters (if he stayed in the house) except (as head of household) he could listen to repentence (he was cautioned he could be DFed if an inappropriate[!] relationship was found between himself and his wife), and the most variable has been the case of DAed/DFed children - in some cases, contact is fine (no spiritual talking!) and in other cases it's been strongly encouraged that no contact be made. As others have said, it's kind of gray in practice.

And, of course, this has changed over the decades. At times you could not talk to DFed Uncle Ray at the family reunion, and at other times you could be cordial but not too friendly in family settings and in family business.

The least amount of trouble will be had if you can avoid being DFed. You can fade ("fall away") with statements about having some things in your life you need to work out, but from this point forward make no statements about your beliefs or contradict anything the WBTS says - say you are taking it before Jehovah in prayer and waiting on Jehovah to see you through your issues.

Avoid initiating religious discussions with any JWs, including family. If you have some family members that might be happy to see you one day, but then go to the elders to repent their bad acts of associating with you the next, don't respond to any religious discussions with them. Apostasy will be the biggest issue - you may have thoughts that contradict the WBTS teachings, and that's bad, but for Heaven's sake don't express them, especially in writing, to elders or other JWs. I've seen my dad get cornered into admitting he had expressed doubts, which was used against him.

I've seen the most leniency in cases where fmaily members associate with someone who has "fallen away", as long as the "fallen" don't express bitterness or disagreement with the organization (and that gets back to the elders).

To answer your question, the thing to avoid would be for you to defend your sinful course of action in leaving the organization. Don't encourage anyone to leave, don't tell them they're doing the wrong thing (besides exposing yourself and your fmaily to troublesome interference, as others have said your fmaily will make up their own mind about what to do) by staying in. In all cases, you have some things in your life that you are praying on and waiting on Jehovah to set you right.

The same basic rules apply to DA ones, yes.

If a particular elder has it in for you, your life can be made pretty miserable. If you've been a popular person, or your family are popular, then you have less exposure. Having family members that are "strong in the truth" is a two-edged sword - it can mean they are so strong that no amount of accociation can posisble harm them

As long as things are kept quiet (away from the general view of the rest of the congregation), all things being equal, the bigger worry is how your family will choose to treat you. My grandmother hasn't spoken to my dad in 30+ years, even though he's been accepted back into the organization after being in a special limbo where he was TOLD he had DAed himself, but averes he never did (of course to get back in he finally had to "admit" he was "wrong"). In my case, my parents have never had an issue associating with me - but then, I have never made an issue of "leaving". I doubt that the elders in their congregation know about my status, and my parents have never felt it was their responsiblity to tell them all the gory details about their gay son. Somehow, my parents valued me as a person above a philosophy of shunning.

Your mileage may vary - but this board cn be a great support, too...cheers