Posts by GinnyTosken

38

Your favorite and least liked society publication?

by Celtic in

jw
friends

did you have a favourite publication?

what was your least liked publication?

creation book for the shady wt take on science.. unseen spirits, do they help us or do they harm us?

GinnyTosken

My favorite Society publication is Learn to Read and Write. The copy I have was printed in 1967. Just sample the suspense:

What were Ann and Dan doing out at night unchaperoned? Why did they see stars? Did Ann bop Dan on the noggin when his hand roamed in search of twin gazelles? Did Dan hope to soothe Ann with dinner and have her as one of the inter-courses?

The plot thickens:

Hmmmm . . . Dan desires dinner but apparently hasn't gotten any yet. And who is this Don dentist guy? A worldly rival for Ann's attentions?

The subliminal message is that Dan is a simple, earthy man:

Like Adam, he is lonely and wants only to make a cozy nest with the woman he loves, doing what is proper by signing a marriage certificate in ink, and only then letting loose his lusty bullish desires, even while he shields his beloved under his husbandly umbrella.

My least favorite books are any of those thick ones from the 1970's, such as the sickish green Man's Salvation Out of World Distress at Hand!. Boring! And you had to wait through months of study to get to one of maybe four pictures in the whole book.

Ginny

18

Do you ever get tired of fighting?

by Celtic in

jw
friends

with no encouragement from others?

what cognitive tools do you use to keep yourselves from going under?

what strategy implementation do you employ to stay as positive as possible?

GinnyTosken

Celtic,

Prisca has a good point--what are you fighting?

For me, it was helpful to drop the battle mentality in thinking about JW issues. I am not fighting against the Society, nor am I fighting for any ex-JW cause. This focus is a bit small, in my opinion. Jehovah's Witnesses are only one of many groups who harm people with religious coercion and control. In my own small way, I hope to make a difference by promoting education and critical thinking skills.

Sometimes when I read this board, I feel weary and empty. In that frame of mind, I seem able to only see endless quarreling and bickering. Depending on what you read, this board can be emotionally draining.

When I feel that way, I know it's time to take a break and focus on something else for awhile. Do whatever feeds your "spirit." I like to slip into the calmer, gently-paced, mannerly world of Jane Austen's 19th century England. Read cookbooks, experiment, and invite friends over for dinner. Go wine tasting. Draw. Write. Listen to music.

When I feel I am renewed enough to read even argumentative posts with a calm smile of compassion, I slip quietly back into my seat at the computer.

Of course, I also enjoy heated debates. As long as I'm able to smile while I compose a reply, I know all is well. When I begin to irritably obsess about it, I know I'm taking this much too seriously.

I hope you find a technique to help you keep your balance, Celtic.

Ginny

18

Do you ever get tired of fighting?

by Celtic in

jw
friends

with no encouragement from others?

what cognitive tools do you use to keep yourselves from going under?

what strategy implementation do you employ to stay as positive as possible?

GinnyTosken

Englishman,

I just noticed that you recently attained Emperor status. Dare I hope that you have put on your new clothes and will soon post a picture of yourself in your new attire?

Ginny Dormant

26

Rome was especially ruthless

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

i found this interesting picture on a site someone here referenced today.

can you fathom being treated this way (persecuted) as apparently some christians were under the government of the roman empire?

(also, look at the ones impaled round about the arena there.

GinnyTosken

Betweenworlds,

Thanks for sharing a great quote:

"Rewards and punishments are the lowest form of education." - Chuang-tzu, Chinese writer (c.369 B.C.-c.286 B.C.).

Ginny

15

Part 5. The Street Party.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

sadly, their own demise as family members was now only weeks away, and those other young sisters next door on the other side were looking a bit restless too............ .

within the next few weeks, becky was noticeable by her absence.

our house no linger shook to her madonna singles and the whole family at dub-house 1 seemed to become subdued.

GinnyTosken

I'm eagerly awaiting Part 6. Meanwhile, I'll just imagine Cary Grant and sigh.

Ginny

5

What are your favorite quotes about JW's?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

do you have any favorite quotes of either something the watchtower said or quotes from outsiders about the witnesses?.

here are two of my own.... "when i was a kid in the ghetto, a gang started going around harassing people, so some of the toughest kids formed a gang called the sharks to stop them.

the other gang was called the jehovah's witnesses.

GinnyTosken

This poem is best read during spring.

Ginny

The Last Day and the First
THEODORE WEISS

The stocky woman at the door,
with her young daughter "Linda" looking
down, as she pulls out several copies
of The Watchtower from her canvas bag,
In a heavy German accent asks me:
"Have you ever thought that these
may be the last days of the world?"

And to my nodding "Yes, I have,"
she and the delicate, blonde girl
without a further word, turning tail,
sheepishly walk away.
And I feel
for them, as for us all, this world
in what may be its last days.
And yet this day itself is full
of unbelief, that or marvelously
convincing ignorance.
Its young light
O so tentative, those first steps
as of a beginning dance (snowdrops
have already started up, and crocuses
we heard about last night the teller's
children quickly trampled in play)

make it hard not to believe that we are
teetering on creation's brink all over
again. And I almost thrill with fear
to think of what will soon be asked
of us, of you and me:
am I at least
not a little old now (like the world)
to be trembling on the edge
of nakedness, a love, as Stendhal
knew it, "as people love for the first
time at nineteen and in Italy"?

Ah well, until I have to crawl
on hands and knees and then can crawl
no more, so may it every Italian-
returning season be, ever the last
day of this world about to burst
and ever for blossoming the first.

26

Rome was especially ruthless

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

i found this interesting picture on a site someone here referenced today.

can you fathom being treated this way (persecuted) as apparently some christians were under the government of the roman empire?

(also, look at the ones impaled round about the arena there.

GinnyTosken

Hi y'all

I found this interesting picture in a book my parents allowed me to read when I was a child. Can you fathom being treated this way (persecuted) as apparently some "pagans" were by the armies of the Israelites? (Look at the guy with the arrow through his heart.) And just to think, all that those people had really done so as to deserve such harsh treatment was that they simply did not know the Israelites' tribal diety and were not this tribal diety's chosen people. They hadn't murdered anyone, or committed any other heinous crime. They merely honored and celebrated agricultural productivity and fertility as symbolized by Baal and Asherah.

Looks to actually be ANOTHER example of the callousness that will be exhibited towards "heathens" and "pagans" as the entire world comes under the influence of religious fundamentalist fanatics. There are so very many examples to look to for enlightenment in this regard. This one, plus the account in the book of Esther (that which Haman had planned for Mordecai and the rest of the Jews was what the Jews ended up doing to their enemies, evidence of a vengeful, bloodthirsty, and chauvinistic spirit). Then reflect on how cheap were the lives of nonIsraelites--Moses murders an Egyptian when no one is looking, Joshua killed "everything that breathed" in the cities he conquered, and David buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins. Remember how Jael, "blessed among women," drove a tent stake through her guest's head; and how the Levite cut his concubine into twelve pieces. My oh my, what tolerance people have exhibited for barbaric practices in the name of religion.

Even now there are people who lust for blood in the name of religion. Here's an example of how religious beliefs can rob a person of love, compassion, and tolerance:

No wonder that when the day arrives when there is no reason for any further delay the Scriptures say that on "the great day of Jehovah ... he will cause distress to mankind, and they will certainly walk like blind men; because it is against Jehovah that they have sinned. And their blood will actually be poured out like dust, and their bowels like the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them in the day of Jehovah's fury; but by the fire of his zeal the whole earth will be devoured, because he will make an extermination, indeed a terrible one, of all the inhabitants of the earth." (Zephaniah 1:14-18; page 1154 of the NWT) Talk about standing in the way of an oncoming freight train! Man oh man, let me out of the way. If I had a choice of either dying at the hand of men or dying at the hand of God, I'd choose the former. At least it will have been an unjustifiable death. What a disgrace it will be though to have been put to death by the judgement of God himself.

It is difficult for me to understand how a religion that teaches forgiveness, grace, and to "love your neighbor as yourself" can also nurture a mindset in which people look forward to judgment, punishment, and a terrible destruction during which the bowels of unbelievers 'will be poured like dung.' Can anything match the ruthlessness of a true believer?

Ginny

26

"Wait On Jehovah"

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

wait on jehovah, is an interesting terminology.

it is used basically to stop an action from taking place.

the inference would be that you should leave it in gods hands and in his due time he will maneuver things to address the matter.

GinnyTosken

Just for fun, I did a search for "waiting on Jehovah" on the internet. One of the top hits is from a discussion forum under the topic "Pushing ahead." Here are a few of the questions and comments that interested me.

Ginny

From http://www.geocities.com/meskojay/Forum67/000040.html
Discussion dated 23 June 2000.

Furmom:
The thought that some are "pushing ahead" was brought out on another thread. I had an interesting conversation with someone from my hall about what exactly this is. So I thought I'd ask here and get some viewpoints.
1. What do you consider "pushing ahead"?
2. How do you know when someone is not "waiting on Jehovah"?
3. Do you consider is not "waiting on Jehovah" if you know that someone was df'd wrongly and try to right this wrong?

andyman4:
1) Pushing or moving ahead can be good. A person has to be diplomatic and have a worthwhile suggestion though.
2) Not waiting on Jehovah-Someone who tries to change a doctrinal matter. Or keeps insisting a suggetion they made be implemented.
3) If a person has concrete evidence that a df'ing shouldn't have happened they can appeal. The df'd person shouldn't be afraid to inform the police if someone has committed a crime against her. An example can be a sister who has been raped.

Furmom:
I don't know, I always remember the widow that kept coming before one of the judges (maybe Solomon?) to get justice from her adversary at law. She got justice because she bugged him so much.
I sometimes think a little outspoken-ness would go a long way in the congregation. A lot less abuse of power will go on if injustices became common knowledge.

Kaleen:
I think the difference is attitude.
Pushing ahead and pushy - could be a thin line.
The widow, we can assume, was at all times respectful, she humbly WAITED but she was persistant. She did not give up.
However, had she nagged or raised a large crowd of supporters what reaction would she have recieve. It does not say that she had a crowd at her back but that she alone went and petitioned.
Food for thought

shelby:
you are right about the widow, furmom, but she was petitioning the judge about her *own* case...i am simply wondering about the impropriety of becoming involved in a case that really isn't our own...and why the one who may be wronged can't seem to work up the passion you have for justice...

Starlite:
Kaleen, I agree with you. Your illustration makes a great deal of sense.
We are given the right to make our concerns known. If, in fact, there has been a injustice or oversight and we have brought it to the attention of the brothers invovlved in a respectful manner, the rest is up to them. If they fail to correct matters or investigate, perhaps form their own conclusions with a biased viewpoint, they will be held accountable.
That takes patience and faith on our part, there's no doubt about it.
Isn't it true that we can also be pushing ahead if we try to force on others speculations about Jehovah's plans for the future?
Or, let's say we complain that somethings are not done fast enough or that change is not happening when we feel it should be.
Could it be that Jehovah allows matters to take their course in a way that appears "slow" to us for a reason?
Just a few thoughts...

44

Should People Be Disfellowshipped?

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

a reply i made on another thread prompted me to post this.

i was going to do so on the other thread but that was really not the topic and i didn't want to corrupt it by flying off on another tangent.. i have no problems with disfellowshipping from an organization such as jehovah's witnesses.

i don't think a person should be allowed to remain within an organization while practicing things that are condemned by that org., things which they, themselves profess not to believe in.. my objection is to the shunning.

GinnyTosken

Frenchy,

You are so kind to reply to a shy, shrinking violet like me.

I agree that focusing on behavior and asking about intent, rather than trying to determine repentance, would simplify matters. Without shunning involved, these issues would have more to do with one's membership status than one's personal relationship with God.

I notice that you mention a committee. Do you mean of elders? Why do you prefer having a committee handle such matters rather than the whole congregation? Would all in the congregation have to abide by the committee's decision and treat the DFed one as a worldly person? If a committee handles these matters, will the meetings be secret or open? If a person is DFed, will folks in the congregation know what this person has done?

I'm just curious as to how you picture the arrangement you describe and how it would differ from the arrangement currently in place in the Society.

Ginny

44

Should People Be Disfellowshipped?

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

a reply i made on another thread prompted me to post this.

i was going to do so on the other thread but that was really not the topic and i didn't want to corrupt it by flying off on another tangent.. i have no problems with disfellowshipping from an organization such as jehovah's witnesses.

i don't think a person should be allowed to remain within an organization while practicing things that are condemned by that org., things which they, themselves profess not to believe in.. my objection is to the shunning.

GinnyTosken

Frenchy,

Wannahelp . . .
Mommy . . .
Joseph . . .
Amazing . . .
Freeman . . .
Detective . . .
Joelbear . . .
Petty . . .
Vennie . . .
Utopian . . .
JT . . .
Celtic . . .

Sob! I feel I've been shunned! What did I do? When did the committee meet and decide?

Ginny