Posts by LayingLow

22

10 hours of field service per month (for a start), being baptized, keeping up with the latest magazines, attending all three (five) meetings per week, and the list goes on....

Can you show me the scriptures for why any one of those things is required for salvation? (You might make a strong case with baptism but don't other Christians do this? In addition, MT 28:19,20 says to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do they baptize you in that name or in the name of their organization?)

From a new testament perspective. I would say what is required for salvation is being in "union" with Christ (what all that entails is another topic). Sometime take a look in the large concordance for the NWT under that word "union". Read every scripture and then you will have an answer for yourself about what is required. Then ask yourself if the the JW 'great crowd' are in "union" with Christ and do some research on that. I hope that helps.

39

Mary imperfect, Jesus perfect

by heyfea in

my husband never ceases to amaze me with the things he asks me.

yesterday night he asked me: why was jesus born perfect when mary was not perfect?

i said to him that it should be the same as having a surrogate mother.

LayingLow

It is interesting to me that the Bible never says Adam was created "perfect". It says the the creation of man was "very good. (GEN 1:31)" Not that he was created with sin, but does the absolute idea of 'perfection' have to be applied? How about just saying he was created without sin. I think he had the ability to reach perfection of humanity by cooperation with God but that he chose not to cooperate. Maybe perfection is what Jesus was resurrected to, the perfection of the human nature transformed by God's Spirit.

5

Percy Sledge and the WTBTS

by LayingLow in

when a man loves a woman.

LayingLow

One time I met a guy in the ministry who really put it to me with the scriptures. He asked some deep questions that I was completely unprepared for (Salvation Issues and scriptures applying YHWH to Jesus from OT). Of course I pretended like I couldn't see the point he was making at the time but it left me thinking about it for several years.

41

New " Witness Only " Watchtower - Even More Controlling - Check this Out

by flipper in

jw
friends

it had been 5 years or more since i even read a watchtower article after exiting the witness cult in late 2003. but i was curious to see if the new " witness only " watchtowers were more controlling than i remember them being 5 years ago.

and it certainly opened my eyes to the extreme control.

when you have been away from it - you can really see the difference !

LayingLow

I remember the last several years finding the message in the WT more controlling. I remember trying to read the scriptures and then guess what the paragraph is about (that way I could objectively check whether what they were saying was proven by the scripture). It kept getting worse and worse. I would think that all this cult like talk would get some of their new recruits thinking. I know it made my stomach turn.

I know that JW's are more Rutherfordish than Russellitish but that really sealed the deal.
Russell said that you could learn the truth from Satan. (He didn't say it that explicitly but he basically said that even Satan tells the truth sometimes and that it doesn't matter who is saying what. What matters is whether what they are saying is true.) How things have changed...

5

Percy Sledge and the WTBTS

by LayingLow in

when a man loves a woman.

LayingLow

I was on my way home tonight and I was listening to the radio. A familiar song came on but I played particularly close attention to the lyrics this time.
It was Percy Sledge's "When a man loves a woman"

While normally the song would just make me reflect on how an emotionally charged relationship would lead to stupid decisions and avoiding good guidance with women, it hit me that it really was similar to the borg's hold on people. I'll post the lyrics. Just replace the word woman with something else that rhymes and fits contextually and applies (I can't think of anything that rhymes). It is late and I've had little sleep so maybe that's why I was thinking of it.

When a man loves a woman
When a man loves a woman
Can't keep his mind on nothin' else
He'd trade the world
For a good thing he's found
If she is bad, he can't see it
She can do no wrong
Turn his back on his best friend
If he puts her down

When a man loves a woman
Spend his very last dime
Trying to hold on to what he needs
He'd give up all his comforts
And sleep out in the rain
If she said that's the way
It ought to be

When a man loves a woman
I give you everything I've got (yeah)
Trying to hold on
To your precious love
Baby please don't treat me bad

When a man loves a woman
Deep down in his soul
She can bring him such misery
If she is playing him for a fool
He's the last one to know
Loving eyes can never see

Yes when a man loves a woman
I now exactly how he feels
'Cause baby, baby, baby
I am a man
When a man loves a woman

I no longer ascent to the last part of the last stanza but once I did. First I did it with women, then with a concept. Probably more concepts and women to come in the future. The lesson with women actually kept me quite cautious afterwards for some time so I'm hoping the one with the organization does likewise.

I think that accurately describes the hold the society has on some individuals. I know guys and girls that are in relationships and they can't see the red flags going up because they're in love. Trying to reason with someone emotionally attached is probably about as easy as trying to reason with a drunk. I don't know what the practicality of posting this was except that it seemed to explain a situation.

Peace and love to everyone, have a great week.

65

The Watchtower Society Shows Their True Colors Again

by TooBad TooSad in

in the new may awake magazine there is an article "is philanthropy the answer?

i knew what the answer.

was going to be before i even read it.

LayingLow

Seeing articles like that always turned my stomach as well. Jesus was broke, but he carried a money box for the poor. What does that tell you?

I wish they would apply that principal.

39

Mary imperfect, Jesus perfect

by heyfea in

my husband never ceases to amaze me with the things he asks me.

yesterday night he asked me: why was jesus born perfect when mary was not perfect?

i said to him that it should be the same as having a surrogate mother.

LayingLow

The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. -Luke 1:35

What does it mean when the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you?

Remember this?

Isaiah 6:5,6: "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."

Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."

After that Isaiah was able to accept the commission that God gave him. Could it be a similar case with Mary? That would explain how Jesus could be of the substance of Mary (The lineage of David),and yet not be marred by sin. Her sins would really be washed away and she really would be "full of grace."

23

I got a jesus question

by lancelink in

with the memorial season behind now, there is a question i have that in over 30 years as a jw i never got a solid answer.

jesus died for our sins; he was the perfect sacrifice, etc, etc.

i always heard how tough it must have been for god to watch his only begotten son die the way he did.

LayingLow

I really don't think knowing things ahead of time means that you don't experience it. If you knew you were going to get punched in the face but that you wouldn't die and in time it would even get better doesn't mean that getting punched in the face will be pleasant.

Saying that it didn't hurt God enough because he knew that it was going to be ok with Jesus seems like saying, "Well you took a blow to the face for me but it's not like it really matters since you're just going to heal up when it's done." On top of that is the fact that he didn't have to do anything.

He could say, "Well, that sin is really tearing them apart but they deserved it for their sin." I know that while certain things are judicially correct they are not loving. In the instance of a person who is loving because their nature demands it, I don't think it takes away from the value of their love even though their nature demanded it. Let me give an example. If I see some guy run at the front of a car in an attempt to take his own life and somehow he doesn't die, I don't say to myself, "Well he deserved it because he ran at a car." My love moves me to try to offer assistance even to someone who justly got what they merited. Someone might say, "Well, you had to help him or you're not loving." That may be true. But I don't think that it should take anything away from the love that was shown just because my nature demanded it. That's kind of a side note but a related issue.

19

The Watchtower trembles before appostates.

by edmond dantes in

instead of disfellowshipping for appostacy why don't the witlesses just tell the so called apostates, it's ok ,just don't disrupt the meetings.if they did this would there be less hassle all round.

other organisations have different allied sections but the whacktower org.

isn't strong enough to embrace dissent , it stands on very shaky ground as regard doctrine and practice.in fact they don't know the first thing about good practice they need a suggestion box in the kingdumb hall for a start and a few lessons in democracy wouldn't go amiss.all dictatorships are afraid of the voice of the people.

LayingLow

It has been said before by heads at Brooklyn that the orders come from the top down, not the bottom up. Suggestions are best kept to yourself.

23

I got a jesus question

by lancelink in

with the memorial season behind now, there is a question i have that in over 30 years as a jw i never got a solid answer.

jesus died for our sins; he was the perfect sacrifice, etc, etc.

i always heard how tough it must have been for god to watch his only begotten son die the way he did.

LayingLow

How did the death of a human pay for the sins since the original sin (I'm a Christian but I don't understand the justice system that this works on)? Why would Jesus take over another human being (sounds gnostic, or maybe more like the Ras Ghouls on Stargate SG1)? How will they look to the one they pierced when he's gone and some other guy that nobody recognizes is appearing and saying he is Jesus (many will come in his name saying "I am the Christ")?

Something doesn't seem to add up.