LayingLow

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Posts by LayingLow

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  44

  Dropped from my Bible Study like a hot potato

  by navytownroger in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had a bible study with a jehovah's witness for the past year and a half.

  i was also attending meetings, but never went out in field service.

  during a recent study, i told the conductor that i didn't believe in the 'annointed' & didn't believe the fds had a 'hotline' to jehovah.

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  LayingLow

  I remember the CO and his wife being the axe men....
  
  They would come on studies or calls and tell us if they thought we should drop the call/study, or at least they would strongly hint at it. Questions like "Do you see [insert name here] becoming a witness?". If you said no then they would encourage you to drop them and find others.
  
  I was a pioneer at the time. I think that they encourage the pioneers to do that more to be effective proselytizers. They do not seem as worried about efficiency with publishers (in my experience).
  
  Was the guy who was studying with you a pioneer?
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  41

  How can I know for sure that the WTS isn't God's organization?

  by nbernat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i go back and forth everyday.

  one day i'm like, "suppress your gay feelings and what you think is wrong about this organization and keep going forward because you want eternal life and all of your friends are here and it's as close to the truth as it can possibly get so just deal with it.

  " others i'm like, "live your life.

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  LayingLow

  How can you know for sure that the Catholic or Orthodox Christian Church isn't God's organization?
  
  I don't attend at either but it's something to consider. If God has to have an organization, where could we find a parallel? How about Israel. Was Israel faithful? Not much of the time. God was constantly sending individuals to readjust those in power.
  
  Applying this to the CC or OC, why wouldn't we assume that they are still God's anointed channel for distributing the spiritual food? You may think they have done a lousy job, but so did Israel.
  
  The only reason you could assume the WTS is God's only organization would be if he decided to cast off all the others at some point in time. This is where the WT teaching on 1919 comes in. Without the appointment in 1919, they could not be God's only organization. The idea behind 1919 is that it follows three and one-half years after 1914. Do you believe in the 1914 prophecy ? (Clue, Contextually look at Luke 21. Do the gentile times end before the time of trouble [great tribulation] or after?) If you don't believe in 1914, then 1919 is discounted as well. If that is the case, then they can point to no specific time period during which God cast off the other Christian faiths. If he never cast them off, then they are still his organizations (if he works through organizations at all at this point). If the other denominations are not cast off, then the WTS could potentially be among all his belongings but by no means could it solely be his organization.
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  38

  HELP ME, HELP ME...PLEASE!!!

  by Quentin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  terry gave me a copy of "in search of christian freedom"...no disrespect to ray franz...i am bored to tears....can't get past the frist chapter...soaked up coc, turned around and soaked it up again.... highly recomend coc to any jw (one that's not brain dead) or ex-jw (also not brain dead) who needs to know something about how the tower works....great book.... sigh, i seem to no longer have the attention span it takes to read a book of this depth....a sad commentary on me...has the internet dumbed some people down to the point that they can no longer read a book?

  if that's what's happended somebody shoot me please... .

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  LayingLow

  Some parts of it (ISoCF) difficult, but it helped me to deconstruct some of their teachings scripturally. CoC did that as well with the annointed / great crowd break down and the blood doctrine. But ISoCF did it with "the name" and what type of organization is necessary for religion. I didn't follow him on certain things (Michael Servetus view of Jesus), but I thought it was worth my time.
  
  This may be a decent suggestion: Read through the table of contents and find a subject that you are still hung up on and check it out.
  
  A scriptural argument against WTS doctrine is only valuable if you 1.) believe in the value of scripture (or 2. really just want to prove to someone else that they are wrong using the Bible). If neither of those two are true for you, then ISoCF will likely be a very dry read. I want to add that it could also be a dry read for you even if both of these are true, but seems like if definitely would if neither of the two are true.
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  43

  Do you exercise or isn't that your thing.

  by LouBelle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for the last 5 and 1/2 weeks i have been at the gym mostly twice a day except saturdays - i only have one training session.

  each of my sessions is at least an hour long but can go for two hours.

  i do various cardio in the evenings and do strength training in the morning.

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  LayingLow

  I've found biking and weight lifting to complement each other well. Running was getting hard on my joints so I switched to biking. With biking, a 2-3 hr ride is possible with my heart rate 'in the zone' the entire time. I'm shooting for a 20 lb drop as well. 10 down, 10 to go.
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  44

  Being told what to say in Convention interviews

  by passwordprotected in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone else heard tell of interviewees in convention parts being told what to say?

  the way i've heard it is you're contacted to be interviewed in a convention talk because you've had a great experience in some form or other and they need you to boast about it.

  so, you meet with the brother handling the assignment and you go through your experience with him (boast about it).

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  LayingLow

  Several of the parts I had given were with well respected elders. They were guys that everyone really looked up to. Interestingly, these were the guys that kept asking me to alter my story to make it more interesting and to leave out things that were real. I remember feeling guilty about letting it happen but it gave me some insight into their real priorities. It was the company man attitude coming out, truth be damned...
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  60

  To ex-JW's who became real "Christians"

  by startingover in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a question.. what is your belief now regarding hell?

  a place of torment?

  the grave?

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  LayingLow

  I have seen some explanations for it being a burning place such as the parable of the rich man and Lazarus and several parts in Revelation (Particularly chapter 20). Those scriptures were the ones I could never reconcile with the gehenna=destruction.
  
  Truthfully, I accepted for a while that since those two accounts are so vivid that it must be a reality but it squelched the love of God in me. Since then I have discarded the teaching again. I can't accept the person who would burn (forever) others as a loving anything. So I had to conclude one of two things.
  
  1.) Gehenna= Eternal Death (Unconscious nonexistence)
  2.) Gehenna= Spiritual state while living in paradise like the state of a wicked child who hates a parents love and the more the parent shows affection, the more they are in hell. (Actually fits in with Orthodox theology). In this instance the hell is self created by the evilness of ones own heart.
  
  Luke is full of parables, and Revelation is full of symbology. I don't think it would be responsible for me to assume that God punishes people forever with no lesson in view simply because an account that most early Christians churches didn't read aloud from and many didn't view as canonical expresses a bad end in vivid symbolism (Sorry for the run-on). So I'm with 1 or 2. All through the scriptures God tries to teach a lesson. It seems so much unlike that character to torture people forever with no chance of repentance.
  
  That's where I am at as of now. It is one doctrine they may have right (Along with Seventh Day Adventists, World Wide Church Of God, and others for nonexistence). Or the Orthodox church may have right also. (Sorry if this is poorly written but I'm in a terrible rush.)
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  11

  Is the JW religion slowly turning into 7th Day Adventist?

  by White Dove in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a friend of mine says they seem to be.

  her sister sent a memorial invitation and said, "will you be going to the memorial of christ's death?

  " she said that the use of "christ" was strange.

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  LayingLow

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPLujhWMVjU
  
  
  
  
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  25

  the unabashed aggression of Scientology

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the unabashed aggression of scientology.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocw90w44boc&feature=related.

  you think ex-jws being shunned is bad.... there are bigger things out there!.

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  LayingLow

  I'm not sure if she is an ex scientologist. The reason being that she was asking how many crimes they were covering up. Scientologists are known for covering up crimes (actually committing them). In addition, the person who posted the video of her has her image as their profile pic and that profile has about 45 videos hosted which are primarily anti-scientologist.
  
  I sent a PM on youtube in order for them to clarify.
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  61

  What is the best question to ask a witness

  by ImFreeatlast in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lets have a free for all .

  i would say why dont you have a book study anymore but that one is done to death... we had a witness recently and i asked for the latest jw only mag (he didn't realise i used to be in his cong... have i done that good a job at fading?

  ) it was a laugh to see the two of them struggle to come up with an answer.... ok lets here the best you can come up with, there has to be some better than mine, what question will leave them stuck for an answer...... .

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  LayingLow

  I think the 1914 question would be a good one. In addition, regardless of the year, why would they hold that the gentiles times ended before the great tribulation began?
  
  Luke 21:20-24
  20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. [** GREAT TRIBULATION??? ]23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations[Since that's part of the GREAT TRIBULATION]. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Since the last sentence is definitely in context of the great tribulation ending, and when it ends the gentile times end, how can the tribulation be future and the gentile times expiration be past?
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  71

  Criticism worthy of your time

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as i read posts throughout this site, i became amazed at some of the criticism people have actually spent time creating, reading (as i did), and responding to.

  dont get me wrong, some of what i read are good issues that seem worthy (to me) of discussion, but to be honest, i find that 90% of the posts are based on ridiculous petty topics that are obviously tied to a sense of deep hatred of the wtbts.

  i can appreciate that some of the people who leave such post, and have this hatred, are taking their time to discuss such things as part of a therapeutic process to combat the fact they spent a large portion of their life dedicated to an organization they feel abandoned them at some point.

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  LayingLow

  If you want to fit a square block through a round hole be my guest. What have they done since Rutherford's days that would indicate that they now are more blessed or chosen by the Holy Spirit than they were before?
  
  They don't hold that God just runs around abandoning Christian religions at any time. The WTBTS believes specifically that in 1918/1919 God abandoned the rest of Christendom. If you don't believe they were specifically chosen in 1918/1919 when they used the cross, believed in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on all Christians, and worshiped Jesus (Check this one out!), then you don't believe they are God's Mouthpiece.
  
  If anything, I think God abandoned them in 1918/1919 because that is when they really started pumping out personal opinions / changed core doctrines / changed time dates. Read the history of the organization when Rutherford first took over. He literally hijacked the corporation. Then he thought he was a prophet and kept having 'light' "flash up". Unfortunately for him those millions then living did die, Beth Sarim turned into a vacation spot (maybe fortunately for him), 1925 saw no significant events and proved him to completely devoid of prophetic insight. He said that he was more sure of 1925 than he was of 1914. I don't know if that tells you anything, but I think it should.