it just dawned on me.
the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.
so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.
Agnosticism has different meanings but the 'formal' one you've given is not at all the popular understanding most people mean who describe themselves as agnostic.
This is an excellent thread to demonstrate a form of fallacious reasoning known as 'persuasive definitions' or the 'Definist' fallacy.
it just dawned on me.
the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.
so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.
You've presupposed the existence of 'something' in your definition EdenOne. Contradicting yourself.
You're arguing for agnosticism but going about it the wrong way. Agnosticism in its simple modern sense just says there is not enough evidence to know either way.
it just dawned on me.
the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.
so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.
Try agreeing on the definition of 'absent' first.
All standard dictionary definitions of 'absent' presuppose there is something that first exists to be absent.
... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
"Additionally, the entire discussion of blood takes place in the context of killing, either animals or humans. This is an important point because a blood transfusion does not involve killing."
BINGO. This is a knock-down argument against the JW blood policy. The whole point of the scriptural prohibition is that the blood is merely a symbol of the soul that is lost. By observing the prohibition, the taker of the life is giving recognition that only YHWH is the source of life.
there seem to be many prerequisites for life as we know it.. to name a few: order, function, compatibility, availability, sustainability, intelligence, consciousness, intuition and so on.. focusing on only one, namely order.. what are the chances of order arising spontaneously, by chance, with no creator/designer?.
i have often pondered this and recently came across a mathematical summary of the big picture:.
if every particle in the known physical universe (10^80 particles), participated in one trillion interactions (10^12 interactions) per second, for the entire 30 billion years of the universe's existence (10^18 seconds), then we would by now have covered only 10^110 permutations.. if you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?.
Define ORDER.
Do you see order in these images?
Spiral galaxy:
snowflake:
Kaleidoscope image:
it was a year ago we visited the kh at last.
yesterday evening when went to the memorial for family reasons.. the memorial talk was very slick.. there was no mention about the early christian times, no mention about the apostles and disciples.. it was a present day talk only.. the ties to the foundation of christianity were totally absent.
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My last ever memorial, a few years ago now, felt exactly the same as Data-Dog describes above. Cold, corporate, lacking any real warmth or spirituality. It felt perfunctory, ceremonial.
Even on the most important night in the Christian calendar, the anniversary of Christ's death, the Watchtower simply cannot bear to give Jesus any real honor or glory. Most of the memorial talk is a brief and clumsy apology to their queer 144k doctrine rather than a stirring message about the meaning of Christ's death.
jehovah god commanded the angels to worship the son, but he himself did not bow down to his son.
jan 1, 1953 wt, page 23. when did this change (the nwt was already published).
Interestingly, this article on the carm website says the 1970 edition of the NWT still used 'worship' instead of 'obeisance' at Hebrews 1:6
" --only those in the kingdom covenant were served the bread & wine by jesus--" ---false!
this phrase switches from the forgiveness of sin part to the exclusive anointed club section of the memorial talk, and it is false because: the kingdom covenant was done after the passover was done.
and the promise of thrones and judging israel in math 19:28 was not a covenant but an assurance.
There's more than 12 thrones Searcher. In any event, the 144k are clearly a subset of all other Christians being differentiated in scripture from the rest they are taken out of, since they are taken 'from' each of the twelve tribes. If not all are on thrones, then perhaps all are priests, as a parallel to the Levitical priestly class of ancient Israel.
NIV:
Revelation 3:21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.Revelation 4:4
Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Revelation 11:16
And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given
authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.
They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its
mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.
jws celebrate jesus death according to 1 corinthains 11.. fine.
once a year since it's on the jewish passover... fail... since thats tonight not last night but..... lets overlook that... jws from new zeland to london observed the memorial on april 2 by western clock... of course all in the western hemisphere did this on april 3rd wheevr the sun went down.
thus a domino effect in the jw congregations took place starting at the date line going back to the same spot 24 hours later..... well this is pathetic in many ways... if the jws worshipped in spirt and truth according to john 4 (i'm an atheist ... i don't care) they would observe on jerusalem's time zone according to the gospels and 1 corinthians... but they dont....
" --only those in the kingdom covenant were served the bread & wine by jesus--" ---false!
this phrase switches from the forgiveness of sin part to the exclusive anointed club section of the memorial talk, and it is false because: the kingdom covenant was done after the passover was done.
and the promise of thrones and judging israel in math 19:28 was not a covenant but an assurance.
The 'great crowd' is a parallel with all the Israelites who escaped Egypt through the Red Sea.
The 144k is a parallel of the priestly or honorific class, the Levitical class, that was a subset of the escaping great crowd.
In other words, the 'great crowd' is all Christians. The 144k is a smaller group of privileged Christians with the role of sitting on thrones.
