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sitcomkid
JoinedPosts by sitcomkid
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15
My Mom quotes recent religion attrition rate survey AT me!!!!
by inkling inso i am having a "conversation" with my mom about how .
we are living during the end of the world and how close armageddon.
is and whatnot, and in making her case she goes:.
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Challenge to Christians to read this! What do you make of this?
by chrisjoel inthe gospel story, with its figure of jesus of nazareth, cannot be found before the gospels.
in christian writings earlier than mark, including almost all of the new testament epistles, as well as in many writings from the second century, the object of christian faith is never spoken of as a human man who had recently lived, taught, performed miracles, suffered and died at the hands of human authorities, or rose from a tomb outside jerusalem.
there is no sign in the epistles of mary or joseph, judas or john the baptist, no birth story, teaching or appointment of apostles by jesus, no mention of holy places or sites of jesus career, not even the hill of calvary or the empty tomb.
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sitcomkid
You could put true believers (either Witness or Christendom) in a time machine and drag them back a couple of thousand years and show them live and in person what actually did or did not happen. If any of it disagreed with the Bible, they wouldn’t believe their eyes. There’s so much more to religion than fact. There is belief. I remember several years ago I was watching one of the late night talk show hosts interview Ellen DeGeneres about how there are people who believe in the Bible who say that she is wrong to be dating women instead of men. I cannot remember if it was David Letterman or somebody else like Jay Leno or whoever it was. For all I know, it could’ve been Oprah, it was so long ago. Anyway, Ellen said that she cannot take anyone’s belief away from them or change their belief, that there’s nothing she can do about that. For some reason, that stuck with me. You can’t really do anything to change someone else’s beliefs. This is pretty much the same thing. Your time machine would be useless.
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18
Why the WT Society is DOOMED!
by Gill inyesterday morning i was listening to 'thought for the day', on radio 4 bbc.. a rabbi was discussing why the jewish faith had survived for thousands of years.. he pointed out that the centre of the faith was the children.
because the children were put first they wanted to stay in the faith as the faith respected them and so they respected the faith in return.. the problem with the wt society is that it puts itself first and the children are just a nuisance to be sat silent in meetings, disciplined for wriggling, talking, and just being children.
the leaders of the wt despise children and only love themselves, giving only lip service to the care children should receive and more importantly the respect children should receive.. therefore, with offspring of jws leaving the wt at the rate of only 1 in every 8 children remaining, the writing is on the wall of the watchtower society.
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sitcomkid
Thank you for the lovely welcome. Back on to the topic, although they are hurting their numbers by not encouraging childbirth, many still have children. I don’t believe that the religion is doomed because of this lack of focus on children, but I do believe that it isn’t helping. I’ll tell you one thing for sure - -the Shakers didn’t last very long. Somebody at least has to give birth.
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32
A Major Announcement next weekend
by JWRESEARCH ina huge announcement will be made in the end of watchtower study next weekend.
we may post here the main issue soon.
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sitcomkid
What major announcement? Did Armageddon come and nobody told me about it? I hate it when that happens! No, seriously, I will be interested to hear that generations are now 150 years long or that you only have to do 10 hours a month to be a pioneer or whatever it is. (Can you tell I’m cynical about new light?)
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sitcomkid
There is a book about it, but it is not light reading by a long shot. Also, not everyone in the field agrees with its conclusions. Still, if you can tolerate academic reading without pulling your hair out, it’s one hell of a theory. http://books.google.com/books?id=RLVOHAAACAAJ&dq=Julian+Jaynes&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=Julian+Jaynes+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1&cad=author-navigational
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18
Why the WT Society is DOOMED!
by Gill inyesterday morning i was listening to 'thought for the day', on radio 4 bbc.. a rabbi was discussing why the jewish faith had survived for thousands of years.. he pointed out that the centre of the faith was the children.
because the children were put first they wanted to stay in the faith as the faith respected them and so they respected the faith in return.. the problem with the wt society is that it puts itself first and the children are just a nuisance to be sat silent in meetings, disciplined for wriggling, talking, and just being children.
the leaders of the wt despise children and only love themselves, giving only lip service to the care children should receive and more importantly the respect children should receive.. therefore, with offspring of jws leaving the wt at the rate of only 1 in every 8 children remaining, the writing is on the wall of the watchtower society.
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sitcomkid
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that the wacktower society along with many other relgions are just modifications/adapaptations of the jewish faith. In what sense? I was raised Jewish and studied with the Witnesses for about four years before stopping my association with them. There are some things in common and other things that were so completely different that I could hardly believe they have the same historical roots. I don’t really believe in any religion anymore, but I was educated in both and can certainly speak to some of the similarities and differences. There are many things in common, such as believing in a higher power and being kind to others and no hell or trinity. Even though it is a little off topic, here is a small and not-nearly-exhaustive list of the differences: The witnesses (and other Christians, it seems) have no oral law and thus reject the Talmud out of hand. Sure, a lot of it is rabbinical commentary, but the rest of it is divine law according to the Jewish religion. Witnesses believe that Satan is the devil. Jewish people don’t really have a devil because Jews don’t believe that angels have free will. There is a completely different understanding of the Job story, but I have already gone far enough off topic to explain it here. Jewish people believe in a dual nature while Jehovah’s Witnesses and many other churches believe in a sinful nature only. Jews believe that all people are inherently both good and bad. It then becomes the person's choice as to which nature is followed in each circumstance. As I am sure most of you know, the Jewish people are awaiting the messiah. However, we are not waiting for a savior. Jews believe that there simply will be no savior. The messiah will be recognized as an adult and he will be a born Jew, although he could be the son of a convert. He will fulfill all of Jewish law including the two most important good deeds - -getting married and having children. He will have relations with his wife, and in the great tradition of the Kabala, he will make sure that her pleasure is prioritized above his own. Okay, I have gone way off topic and I am now entering the “adult” zone.
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15
My Mom quotes recent religion attrition rate survey AT me!!!!
by inkling inso i am having a "conversation" with my mom about how .
we are living during the end of the world and how close armageddon.
is and whatnot, and in making her case she goes:.
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sitcomkid
People are shaped by what they are taught, and your mother essentially sees the world through Jehovah’s Witness-colored glasses. She has been taught that any detraction from her religion is automatically wrong anyway. I admire you for trying; it’s almost impossible to get anywhere with one of them. I love how whatever happens automatically fortifies their beliefs, no matter what it is. If people are leaving churches, it means they are fed up with religion and we need to knock on their doors. If people are increasing their attendance in churches, they must be evidencing a hunger for spirituality that they cannot find outside of the organization and we need to knock on their doors. Have you ever heard the story of the man walking in the woods? He came upon a tree with a target on it. In the exact center of the target, right on the bull’s eye, a bow stuck out of the tree. “What an incredible marksman must be roaming the forest today!” he thought to himself. “It’s very hard to get a bull’s eye.” As he continued his walk, he came upon a second tree, then a third, then several more, all with bull’s eyes. Each arrow was right in the center of the target! Who could possibly be so gifted? A few steps later, he came across a gentleman with a big bow and a bag of arrows. He said, “Are you the man who has been shooting arrows into the trees in this forest?” “Yes,” the man answered. “Why do you ask?” “I was just wondering how you can get a bull’s eye each time. What is your secret?” The marksman replied, “I shoot the arrow first, and draw a circle around it after.”
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My First Witness to a Witness
by Cold Creek Swimmer inso, i don't start many topics here, but i felt this needed to be shared.
i had just landed at the airport and was walking out of the concourse when i noticed a stand that had been set up by an obviously married older witness couple.
they were very patiently waiting behind their counter covered with the latest publications.
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sitcomkid
CCS- - Yes, it is about social control. The problem is that ancient social control applies best to very old societies. Sure, some of it is applicable today, but other portions of it lie too far outside our experience to be of any use. And no, they don’t see it. If you study the historical development of any of the world’s major religions, you will see that whatever was going on was in response to the social climate of the time and place and made sense within that context. Nowadays, people grasp for meaning in their lives, but also structure, guidance, purpose and comfort. Religion feeds us all of these, or it can. Because of this potential, many people latch onto the religious beliefs they were raised with, or, if there was a problem or disagreement there (or if they were raised with no religion in particular) they might listen to a preacher from another religion. Believing in a religion is not always bad- - it depends on how the person uses the information. As an excuse to be loving and charitable and humble, or as an excuse to be haughty and critical and boast that one’s own religion is the best? With the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I believe that the religion pushes them to be the latter type of person. People are out there looking for religion, and I feel that taking away their ability to think for themselves or telling them they are wrong if they do so does not only enforce outdated social roles on a modern society - - it robs them of their ability or willingness to think for themselves, and thus their very humanity.
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19
My First Witness to a Witness
by Cold Creek Swimmer inso, i don't start many topics here, but i felt this needed to be shared.
i had just landed at the airport and was walking out of the concourse when i noticed a stand that had been set up by an obviously married older witness couple.
they were very patiently waiting behind their counter covered with the latest publications.
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sitcomkid
Congratulations - -what you’re doing takes a lot of courage. It’s not easy face up to people. Your perspective is interesting, the idea about Jesus glomming onto such Pagan ways, if Paganism is to be avoided. But this is what history is all about - - human nature taking place over time. We all incorporate the past into our present tense. Nobody says it quite like Julian Jaynes: History does not move by leaps into unrelated novelty, but rather by the selective emphasis of aspects of its own immediate past. If they answered the question honestly, they’d have to admit that their religion was based on the cultural and historical needs of the times and places in which the many parts of the bible were written. This is why early Jews did ritual sacrifice - -at that point, they were still latter-day Pagans. The cultural shift was gradual, as such changes usually are. The one thing I notice about human nature is that it prefers what is familiar. This goes for individuals as well as groups. I am not criticizing this. I am just saying that people have to accept that it applies to religion and spirituality as well as everything else. So Jesus did the same thing. A little familiarity with some new stuff mixed in. You make a good point. You bring up another interesting point about them having to think for themselves. They don’t like that. Too much of what they call “higher reasoning” will distract from Jehovah. (as if there are could be a creator who gave us such an intricate and wonderful brain but prefers that we never use it) I have a friend who ended up going super-inactive (he wants to semi-leave but to retain his friends from within, so he moved 4 hours away to avoid the issue of actually leaving) and he told me that a friend of his, an elder, said that he actually prefers having his thinking handed to him on a platter by the Society. My friend told me the elder explained that, with all the complexities in the world, isn’t it nice not to have to worry about what our opinions or reactions should be? Then he supposedly went on to say something about how worldly people are so burdened, having to worry about these things, and he is thankful that he is not. I am getting all of this second hand, but it sounds like something somebody could say. I told my friend that I felt sorry for this elder he knows. Thinking our way through complex tasks is a gift, not a burden or a curse (or a path to Satan) and anybody who does not have some kind of mental disability should take great joy in living out their “humanness.” You may never find an answer to all your questions, but sometimes the point is in the journey. I think the most cruel thing the religion does is attempt to take away our ability to think for ourselves and tell us that availing ourselves of critical thinking is a sin, that celebrating our connection to previous cultures and belief systems is a sin, that anything human or natural is wrong. I have no idea why they think Jehovah created us if we are so wrong. There’s a question I’d like to ask somebody! Of course, that is too deep. If I really get in the mood to make one of them try and think, I use baby steps: They think that “luck” is pagan and “fortune” is innocent? Have you ever heard of a luck teller? Neither have I. Just a fun example from the "think for yourself" files. Sorry this post is so long. It’s my first time doing this, but I guess this post just hit a nerve with me.