Posts by DT

24

Defining God and Atheism

by DT in

jw
friends

i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

DT

Thank you for all the insightful comments.

What is your problem with the word "agnostic"? I believe it's the word you seem to be looking for.

The term agnostic is a useful one and I sometimes feel comfortable applying it to myself. The problem I have is that it is very broad and has some negative connotations. I think I can illustrate one of the problems this way. When I was a JW and believed in the existence of Jehovah, I still admitted to myself that I was also an agnostic. Logically, we can never know anything with complete certainty. Even if the evidence seems overwhelming, we can never fully trust that our impressions of the outside world are accurate or that our ability to evaluate evidence isn't compromised. One definition of agnostic is one who believes that it isn't possible to have certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of a god or gods, so I believe that applied to me, even when I was a pretty strong theist. Some people even view themselves as agnostic theists. They may believe in a god, but openly admit that they don't have firm evidence for their belief.

I'm definitely not a theist, so the term agnostic isn't very descriptive in my case. Some people view agnostics as not very interested in the question of god's existence or unwilling to expend the mental effort to evaluate the evidence. It's such a broad term that I'm sure that is true for some agnostics, but this isn't really fair the large number of agnostics that don't feel that way.

24

Defining God and Atheism

by DT in

jw
friends

i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

DT

To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.
This doesnt make sense grammatically.
I AM an atheist is the same as I AM NOT a theist.

There is a subtle difference between claiming to be an atheist and claiming to not be a theist. Historically, atheists were generally regarded as having a belief in the nonexistence of god or opposed to the idea of there being a god. Now, many people regard atheism as a broader term, including anyone who isn't a theist. Still the term carries some unfortunate connotations. I would prefer it if nontheist and atheist were strictly synonymous, but that's not how some people see it.

24

Defining God and Atheism

by DT in

jw
friends

i'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic.

i guess i like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist.

to me, nontheist simply says what i am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

DT

I'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic. I guess I like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist. To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people. I don't mind saying what I am. I just wish the term atheist had a more consistent definition in the minds of those who use it. I also feel that the terms atheist and agnostic overlap, so I believe both apply to me even though both can include views that are not my own.

Part of the problem is that all these terms are defined in relationship to the concept of god, another term that is poorly defined. I wish theists would better define the word god. However, most theists only believe in one god or a specific collection of gods, so they don't feel a need to use a term that is much broader than they need for their purposes.

It is easy for me to declare that I am not a believer in Yahweh or Zeus. I would even be willing to say that I think the existence of either is very improbable. It's harder for me to express my view of the possibility of a god or gods in general, when I don't know what kind of hypothetical lifeforms would qualify as a god. For example, what if some alien planted primitive one celled organisms on earth that later involved into us and all other life on this planet? Would that alien be a god? In a sense it's not very important. It's just a matter of definition. On the other hand, the terms we use can indicate our stand on that and countless other scenarios.

I'm just cautious about turning my ignorance into the illusion of knowledge or turning absence of evidence into evidence of absence. I think gods are improbable, but I am well aware that a small portion of the things I regard as unlikely may be true. I am confident that there are many unseen mysteries that we have not even thought of. I would hate for something as mundane as terminology to interfere with my ability to be open to new possibilities.

What are your thoughts? Is anybody else concerned about how we define things like god and atheism?

8

An update at the JW media site

by DT in

i just received this email update from the jw media site:.

"police officers and local officials of samarkand, uzbekistan, raided the.

homes of jehovah's witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the.

DT

how about a bit of balance and some respect for the victim/s and condemnation for this act of human rights violation.

These types of human rights violations should be condemned. I also feel sympathy for the victims. However, look at the context. I believe it is entirely appropriate to point out the hypocrisy of an organisation that covers up cases of abuse, but will loudly advertise a case like this to the media when they think it will advance their goals. They have a right to protest these kinds of abuses and we have a right to protest the more serious abuses that occur in their organization.

8

Nice Bunch Of Guys!

by Outaservice in

jw
friends

subject: watchtower board of directors 1950's.

knorrs board photo.

board of directors of the watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.

DT

I wouldn't want to meet that gang in a dark alley.

8

An update at the JW media site

by DT in

i just received this email update from the jw media site:.

"police officers and local officials of samarkand, uzbekistan, raided the.

homes of jehovah's witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the.

DT

where's the second witness on that fondling abuse? The WT may be taking a news report at face value with no corroboration needed.

Good point. It might be interesting to give them a call and ask if they have two or more witnesses for their accusations.

8

An update at the JW media site

by DT in

i just received this email update from the jw media site:.

"police officers and local officials of samarkand, uzbekistan, raided the.

homes of jehovah's witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the.

DT

I just received this email update from the JW media site:

"Police officers and local officials of Samarkand, Uzbekistan, raided the
homes of Jehovah's Witnesses and took 18 congregation members to the
police station. A young woman, 17 years old, was stripped and fondled by
an intoxicated police officer. All were verbally abused and threatened
with physical assault."

http://www.jw-media.org/index.html

If their allegations are true, then it is appropriate for them to bring this to the media's attention. However, I can't help pointing out the irony that they go to great lengths to cover up abuse of minors when their own members are responsible.

36

What Craft Or Hobby Keeps YOU busy?

by Sunspot in

jw
friends

as long as i can recall, i have always had at least three craft or needlework "projects" going at one time!

i have had a few "unproductive years" due to two strokes that affected my right side and the use of my fingers.

i tried a few things and then put them down in desperation.. recently i picked up a crochet hook again determined to figure out a way to get things working again.....and it is slow and very awkward but i can still crochet!.

DT

I enjoy writing music in experimental tunings, especially tunings that have more notes than the traditional twelve to the octave.

9

Lack of hobbies and personal interests prompts some to pioneer

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

some in my hall are bored.

they've either been laid off or they've taken a break from pioneering, whether its regular or auxiliary.. they have little in the way of personal pursuits or interests.. to fill this apparent lack of personal development and self fulfillment, they reason it is better to spend time in the ministry.. then when personal problems arise, they quit.

they can't keep up with the routine.. they get bored again and unfulfilled.

DT

It used to amaze me how often I would ask a witness what they liked to do in their free time and they would just say they didn't have free time. Many didn't even give much thought to what they would like to do with their free time in the new system. How do you carry on an interesting conversation with these people?

16

Doom Metal

by DoomVoyager in

anyone here into doom?

any circle of true doomsters?

or just into true old-school heavy farkin' metal?.

DT

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T3xz3k0yUk4

I don't like it, but I dislike it less than other types of metal or other types of extreme modern music. To me, the heavy bass is a redeeming quality.