Posts by DT

141

"Theocratic Warfare" and the Annual Report

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

one of the things i certainly noticed as a jw, and even during the time i was in bethel, was the complexities of reporting "truth.".

beginning with an observation on a personal level, i consider myself an honest person.

but something happened along the way, beginning when i pioneered.

DT

I tried to be honest when reporting my time, but it wasn't easy. I mostly lived in rural areas and many of the witnesses, including me, concluded that the rules for counting time were designed for urban areas where you could drive a short distance to the territory and everyone could get out and start their time. This wasn't always possible or practical in rural areas. I even remember a few times when I was out for an entire morning and never got out once. Technically, I shouldn't have counted any time, but I did. It didn't make any sense to sacrifice an entire morning and not be able to count any time, especially when pioneering. I never counted more time than I was out, but I was flexible about when I started and stopped. I also figured that since many employers allow a fifteen minute break every two hours, it wasn't unreasonable to treat the ministry the same way.

I also saw a lot of inefficiency due to people trying to increase their reportable time. Many times, the car group would drive in one direction so every one could start their time in a nearby territory and then drive a long way in the other direction to a rural territory and do a few doors and take a break. Then they would come back so that everyone could end their time near the Kingdom Hall. The result was that none of the territories were worked efficiently. I think I even suggested a few times that we pretend that we all started our time so that we can get to a far away territory and actually have time to work in it.

At one time, I was the only pioneer in a small congregation and worked alone almost every day. I also lived in the center of the territory which was very rural. Most of the towns were on the edges of the territory. I just didn't have enough nearby calls and territory to start and stop my time every day. I didn't think it was fair to have to drive a half hour or more before I could start my time so I usually allowed five minutes or so as travel time to an imaginary call and then started my time. I figured that is what would happen if I actually had people to work with and I shouldn't be penalised for working alone and being far more efficient.

150

Out Of All JW Beliefs Which Is The Weirdest?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know there's plenty.. one that comes to mind is the blood doctrine.

whole blood is bad, blood fractions may be ok but not all.....wtf?

?.

DT

You should dress up to tour a factory.

30

Could the Governing Body be done away with?

by Aussie Oz in

i posted this idea on another thread but perhaps it is worth its own discussion.. could the gb be done away with?

seriously.. they came to be, out of a troubled time.

there was much opposition as we know to the whole gb idea at the time.

DT

I'm sure the Governing Body thinks that the elaborate corporate structure of the organization protects them from liability. That may have been the original intention. However, it could have the opposite effect if the different corporations decide to place the blame on the Governing Body to shield themselves from liability.

It might normally be hard to get rid of the Governing Body, but if they are convicted of crimes against children, then it could be a great excuse for them to be given up and the rest of the organization could have a fresh start. They could remove the penalties for blood transfusions and for not shunning disfellowshipped people. (This could be done by letters to the elders. They wouldn't even have to notify anybody else.)

If a small fraction leave, they could attribute this to the effects of apostasy and then liquidate some Kingdon Halls for some fast cash. I think most would brag about how wrongdoing is eventually handled in Jehovah's organization, even if it means removing members of the Governing Body.

41

If You Were God How Would You Prove You Existed

by Pig in

i ask this because obviously everyone has different criteria, hence why we have muslims who think quran is the more than enough proof, christians who think the bible is perfect proof and atheists who believe that nothing yet has been proof enough of gods existence.. living with humans we all must have a good idea of human nature (god should certainly know) so what would you provide as proof if you were god to convince the masses of your existence?.

if you were a christian would your proof surpass that contained in the bible, would you provide less proof?.

if you are atheist would you provide a mathematical equation or a series of supernatural events that fulfill prophecies every 100 years?.

DT

If I were God, I would have probably done things completely different from the beginning. If I were just given Godship at the present time, I would try to fix some of the major problems while giving humans the freedom to work out many of the other details themselves.

If this wasn't possible for some reason, I probably wouldn't be too concerned about proving my existence. I would probably use the current sate of uncertainty to identify honest hearted atheists who have the intellectual courage and honesty to admit that it's OK for some questions to be left unanswered until there is more data. I would reserve a very special place in heaven for them and spend most of my time with them. I would probably let believers into heaven also, but I would be tempted to have some fun with them first. I might greet them dressed as the devil or pretend to be Zeus and tell them they got some credit for believing in a god, but lost even more for believing in the wrong one! In any case I would make sure that they attend a lot of classes about science, logic and evolutionary theory.

66

Thoughts on the current Governing Body

by JRK in

jw
friends

here is a list of the current governing body members:.

gerrit losch: born 1942, appointed july 1, 1994 .

guy h. pierce: born 1935, appointed oct. 1, 1999 .

DT

I think the annointed factor is important. The fact that they have to be annointed means that there is a very small pool of potential candidates. It could be argued that these annointed are either lying to themselves, lying to others, or experiencing mental delusions. They aren't the kind of people who would usually be put in charge of a large corporation.

16

Does anyone have a well worded DA Letter prepared?

by Jomavrick in

jw
friends

not that i cant write up something myself, but i figure why try and reinvent the wheel?

i think it is time to cross that bridge.

thank you!.

DT

Here are a few random ideas. They might not all apply or be a good idea.

Send a letter threatening legal action if they take any action or make any announcements. (There are some well worded examples floating around.)

Send a letter resigning from the local congregation, but stating you wish to remain a Jehovah's Witness. (They will probably make an announcement anyways, but it might cause some confusion in the meantime as they consider all the legal implications.)

Go to a meeting and announce it yourself while giving a comment.

Send letters to your friends and relatives, but not the elders. They will still find out, but just won't be the first to know.

Get an ad in your local paper saying you resign from the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Tell the local elders that there was a problem with your baptism and you wish to be rebaptised. Get them to agree and then back down at the last minute. Then tell them that they agreed that your original baptism was invalid and therefore they have no authority over you.

Send a letter to the local elders saying that the Governing Body have disassociated themselves by their actions (UN, denying the Faithful and Discreet Slave or other reason of your choice.) and that you no longer recognize their authority or the authority of their representatives.

Ask that your records be transferred to another congregation, thereby preventing the local congregation from being involved in any judicial actions.

Send a letter stating that you no longer wish to be known as a Jehovah's Witness, but claim you are a Jehova's Witness (or Jehovah's witness or other variation). Insist that any announcement about you include the exact spelling of Jehovah's Witnesses so that they aren't guilty of slander. Say that you will sue for any announcement indicating that you are not a Jehova's Witness.

20

It's Time For The Governing Body To Be Removed

by DT in

jw
friends

the current governing body has become a liability for the watchtower society.

they no longer qualify to serve based on the standards that they impose on others.

they have blatantly broken the law in australia.

DT

Lawyers are sharks and there is a lot of blood in the water. I think the Governing Body should be worried.

20

It's Time For The Governing Body To Be Removed

by DT in

jw
friends

the current governing body has become a liability for the watchtower society.

they no longer qualify to serve based on the standards that they impose on others.

they have blatantly broken the law in australia.

DT

"If the religion becomes dismantled (unlikely) then where oh where will all that money go? Into the pockets of a bunch of lawyers more than likely."

I hope so. I would much rather see the lawyers get it than have it used to control people's lives. Lawyers would know how to hold onto the money once they get it. It seems that they would be the appropriate choice to inherit Watchtower wealth.

20

It's Time For The Governing Body To Be Removed

by DT in

jw
friends

the current governing body has become a liability for the watchtower society.

they no longer qualify to serve based on the standards that they impose on others.

they have blatantly broken the law in australia.

DT

The current Governing Body has become a liability for the Watchtower Society. They no longer qualify to serve based on the standards that they impose on others. They have blatantly broken the law in Australia. They are responsible for offensive hate speech against former members. They have violated the most cherished principles of their faith by becoming affiliated with the United Nations and other governmental organizations. Their policies have incurred tremendous legal liabilities that threaten to cost the Watchtower Society untold millions in fines, lost donations, legal fees and lawsuits.

It's time for the Watchtower Society to do what it is good at, to dismiss those that become an embarrassment. It's not enough to remove them from their positions. They should be expelled from the organization.

The Watchtower properties in Brooklyn will be sold soon. This could result in a windfall of over a billion dollars. Officials of the Watchtower Society should ask themselves if they trust this current Governing Body to manage those funds. How much of this money will be squandered over fines and lawsuits resulting from their policies on pedophilia, blood and their treatment of former members? How much will be spent on desperate attempts to shore up an organization that is crumbling from within?

The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses has been fragmenting itself for years into a maze of different corporations and legal entities to avoid legal liability. The recent events in Australia should reveal that this may not be sufficient. If it's not possible to get rid of the Governing Body, then it should be possible for some of these legal entities to seize assets and break away. The Governing Body can be left to face the legal consequences of their own policies.

Many Jehovah's Witnesses in positions of authority are becoming very concerned about the actions of the Governing Body. It is time for them to start thinking for themselves and to take action. There may never be a better opportunity.

156

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

victoria, australia: report on oct. 11th hearing involving steven unthank.

(this report is from an anonymous xjw who attended the hearing.

i had no plans to turn up to the court hearing as an observer, as in my experience, it can take several hearings and a number of months before any court case gets rolling.

DT

It appears that Vincent Toole has disassociated himself by denying the existence of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. It could even be argued that he has commited the unforgiveable sin according to Watchtower standards. If the governing body allows him to continue working on this case, then that could be seen as the entire governing body disassociating themselves.

If there are some elders who claim to be of the annointed in Australia, it might be appropriate to charge them individually. In addition to their position as elders they are also supposed to be helping to direct the entire organization, so they have extra culpability.