DT

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Posts by DT

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  65

  Call to legal department Jan 6, 2012

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  troubled former witness calls legal department at the watchtower organization.............. dale beckman says, can the "society" be guilty of "alienation of affection?

  " in my case, my family has been told it is proper to hate me and to do nothing to help me in any way - otherwise, they could be considered a sharer in my works of "unforgivable sin.

  " they are told not to even greet me.

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  DT

  "Doesnt it seem that there are other constitutional interests that could be argued in this sort of case?"

  Yes, I think so. The problem, as I see it, is to even get a court to agree to interfere in internal religious matters so these arguments can be heard. The arguments don't mean much if the case is thrown out before it gets to trial.

  The situation may be different for the divorce case. The court might not care if the wife has been influenced by third parties, but it might be very concerned if the wife will subject the children to an environment that slanders the father and treats him like the worst kind of person.
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  65

  Call to legal department Jan 6, 2012

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  troubled former witness calls legal department at the watchtower organization.............. dale beckman says, can the "society" be guilty of "alienation of affection?

  " in my case, my family has been told it is proper to hate me and to do nothing to help me in any way - otherwise, they could be considered a sharer in my works of "unforgivable sin.

  " they are told not to even greet me.

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  DT

  I would love to see a case like this succeed against the Watchtower Society. Unfortunately, I think there is little chance this kind of case would go anywhere. (Note, I'm not a lawyer and I'm unqualified to give legal advice.) The Watchtower Society is very good at avoiding lawsuits by claiming that the court case would involve unconstitutional interference with internal religious matters. I believe there is a good chance that the case would be thrown out before the evidence was even heard.

  I also understand it is difficult to sue for alienation of affection. These kinds of laws date back to when women were viewed as property and easily influenced by third parties. The wife has a mind of her own (in theory at least, being in a cult changes things, but the court might not recognise that) so it would be hard to hold someone else accountable for her actions. The talk given by the circuit overseer is probably irrelevant, unless he mentioned the husband by name. I think it would be viewed as simply the expression of religious opinions.

  I'm sure the elders were careful to not actually recommend that she get a divorce. Even if they did, it might be almost impossible to prove.

  I hope he doesn't make the mistake of being passive during the divorce with the idea that he can get his revenge by suing for alienation of affection. He needs professional legal counsel urgently. I think the circumstances make it likely that he can get a somewhat favorable settlement in terms of support and visitation or custody of his kids. If he is aggressive enough (especially if he seeks custody of his kids based on his wife's involvement with an organization that slanders him openly), his wife might even decide to end the proceedings.
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  14

  Lesbian protest kiss at convention during CO's talk... taking it too far?

  by Joliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had the funniest thought at work...what if me and three apostate friends protest at a convention, and right before the song during a c.o's talk, me and one of the girls got up, and pretended like we were gonna do a normal sister embrace, and then, out of no where, me and the other 'sister' do would a long lesbian kiss while the c.o.

  is giving a talk on fornication....what do you guys think the audience would do?.

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  DT

  How about a kiss during the musical introduction, but just before the program starts. This way a lot of people would see it, but there would be enough people in the aisles to make it difficult for the attendants to get to you. You could defend it as just an act of affection instead of a protest. However, if they ask you to leave, it would likely happen during the beginning of the program and would disrupt the convention. If they ask you to leave, you could say something like, "If you don't stop harrassing us because of our sexual preference, we will call the police." If the police do come you can make your complaint to them like you thought they came to protect you. They would probably ask you to leave, but it could make a great story if you contacted a reporter about it.
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  33

  What do you think the cover title will be of the Jan, 1st, 2014 Watchtower?

  by cyberguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  here?s mine (he-he): armageddon, it?s closer than you think!

  1914 and the "gentile times.

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  DT

  Are We Really Living in the Last Centuries?
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  65

  Who else remembers the poster fred7777??

  by unshackled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  i miss fred7777...he was one helluva an apostate.

  though his time here was brief he will not be forgotten..

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  DT

  I can imagine someone like Fred confessing to the elders that he joined an Internet forum. I can also imagine the elders saying that he would have to show his remorse by deleting his account, not knowing that would lead to all this publicity.
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  65

  Who else remembers the poster fred7777??

  by unshackled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  i miss fred7777...he was one helluva an apostate.

  though his time here was brief he will not be forgotten..

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  DT

  I heard that he is no longer a member of this forum. Does that mean we have to shun him now?
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  55

  sincere question .....What could make you believe in God ?

  by caliber in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please discuss why you don't believe in god and that which could convince you to believe in god ??

  ?.

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  DT

  If God carved his name in the moon, I would consider that to be fairly convincing evidence, assuming it isn't an alien practical joke. However, if there is a God, he might also be an alien.
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  61

  Comments from a real JW about the killing of apostates watchtower. You will be shocked..

  by Hairyhegoat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a very good find from another jw only web site i have access to... hey i just found this on a link of my mom's that she is "friends" with, yes, still a jw...anyway, i had to copy/paste it so you could all see, thought it was a bit hilarious to see how they blatantly speak of keeping info from "outsiders.

  " i did not copy the name of the person since that is not my point and i am not that disrespectful, but i did copy their comment...they were discussing the wt about killing all apostates and someone that was studying asked a question as to whether they all thought that was right or not, so here it is..............."james... although its a great article and very encouraging, as apostates do deserve to be murdered, it may not be such a good idea to reveal it our friend zeek at this moment.

  he may find it a tad over the top.

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  DT

  I found this in the Facebook help section. http://www.facebook.com/help/?faq=243758932322379

  "How do I report hate speech that attacks my race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability, or disease?

  Facebook does not tolerate hate speech. While we encourage the discussion of ideas, institutions, events, and practices, it is a serious violation of our terms to single out individuals based on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability, or disease.

  To submit a report and help Facebook locate specific content, please find the report link that is nearest to the hateful content."
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  48

  How many ex-JW's are musicians on here?

  by NoRegrets in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  just wondering how many of us on here are musicians, what we play, and if we had witness bands and/or performed.

  i have had quite a few funny moments of being in bands that wanted to be cool, but always had to nerf the edginess of any songs we played and watch the noise!

  i played with different elders who loved to rock out, but when they played at a congregation party didn't even want to use overdrive of any kind!

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  DT

  I do some composing. I've written some chamber and classical style music. I've also done some microtonal music in alternate tunings (like seventeen or twenty-six notes to the octave instead of the usual twelve). A few of my pieces have been performed in concert, but I've never made any money from my music.
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  141

  "Theocratic Warfare" and the Annual Report

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the things i certainly noticed as a jw, and even during the time i was in bethel, was the complexities of reporting "truth.".

  beginning with an observation on a personal level, i consider myself an honest person.

  but something happened along the way, beginning when i pioneered.

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  DT

  I tried to be honest when reporting my time, but it wasn't easy. I mostly lived in rural areas and many of the witnesses, including me, concluded that the rules for counting time were designed for urban areas where you could drive a short distance to the territory and everyone could get out and start their time. This wasn't always possible or practical in rural areas. I even remember a few times when I was out for an entire morning and never got out once. Technically, I shouldn't have counted any time, but I did. It didn't make any sense to sacrifice an entire morning and not be able to count any time, especially when pioneering. I never counted more time than I was out, but I was flexible about when I started and stopped. I also figured that since many employers allow a fifteen minute break every two hours, it wasn't unreasonable to treat the ministry the same way.

  I also saw a lot of inefficiency due to people trying to increase their reportable time. Many times, the car group would drive in one direction so every one could start their time in a nearby territory and then drive a long way in the other direction to a rural territory and do a few doors and take a break. Then they would come back so that everyone could end their time near the Kingdom Hall. The result was that none of the territories were worked efficiently. I think I even suggested a few times that we pretend that we all started our time so that we can get to a far away territory and actually have time to work in it.

  At one time, I was the only pioneer in a small congregation and worked alone almost every day. I also lived in the center of the territory which was very rural. Most of the towns were on the edges of the territory. I just didn't have enough nearby calls and territory to start and stop my time every day. I didn't think it was fair to have to drive a half hour or more before I could start my time so I usually allowed five minutes or so as travel time to an imaginary call and then started my time. I figured that is what would happen if I actually had people to work with and I shouldn't be penalised for working alone and being far more efficient.