there was an interesting documentary on the mormons yesterday.
you could substitute jw for mormon for most of it (except teachings) especially concerning obedience to the higher ups, not questioning the organization, etc.
they disfellowship and excommunicate (excommunication being a worse fate) and if anyone questions the church they are considered an apostate.
I consider myself a Former... Mormon
The world makes far more sense out of the LDS church, than it ever did in it. Yes, what I believed was silly, just as the repeated JW "prophecies" were silly.
Silly really is a bad word... damnable fits better for me.
there was an interesting documentary on the mormons yesterday.
you could substitute jw for mormon for most of it (except teachings) especially concerning obedience to the higher ups, not questioning the organization, etc.
they disfellowship and excommunicate (excommunication being a worse fate) and if anyone questions the church they are considered an apostate.
I have close friends who are Mormon and I just don't understand how they can believe the things they are taught ...
without any question or research. Most of their doctrine blows the JW out of the water ... mind-boggling stuff like
baptising the dead, becoming Gods in the afterlife, protective garments, etc. These aren't "crazy" people either.
I've met several and they are all clean-cut intelligent persons who you could mistaken as a JW instantly. LOL!
They can't drink tea or coffee because caffine is like a drug and you could become addicted. (No coffee?!!!)
BUT you can drink Coca-Colas. Hmmm ... what's the difference? The Book of Mormon has NOT ONE SHRED
OF EVIDENCE that any of the events in the book took place. It's total fantasy!
I'll have you know I represent that statement!!!
it gave my wife (i only have 1, thank you very much) a few wtf moments when we first saw it last year.
check your local listings for times.
I wouldn't say sugar coated, but a lot of detail has been left out. Much was hinted at, like horny Joe marrying other mens wives, without reading from these faithful sisters diaries about the sex they had with Joe and the kids they bore to him, instead of her husbands.
For a four hour program, PBS isn't doing too bad with it though. The most telling part of last night, was Dallin Oaks (an "apostle") say that it is not OK to criticize leaders of the "church" -"even if it's true". I wish they had fleshed out more of why the Mormons had pissed the Missourians off so much, namely their arrogance saying this land is zion. You have to join or leave because eventually all of this will be zion. Then they proceeded to uniformly -like the robots they are, to take over the political process. (no wonder Romney got 90+% of Utah vote.-things haven't changed)
They hinted at the rhetoric that Brigham said that lead to the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I wish they had fleshed out the rhetoric or doctrines he was teaching people at the time that incensed the mormons and enabled such an atrocity. I wish they mentioned 'blood atonement', as taught by Brigham, that some sins are soooo grievous, that the sinner must bleed out on the ground in order to be saved. So much for a supposed, all powerful atonement by Jesus that mormons say they believe in. He even taught about how the shedding of enemies, I mean sinners blood, should be done for them, with love. They were shedding/atoning their enemies blood so they could be forgiven and go to heaven. How nice, how thoughtful. Talk about killing me softly. I think had they mentioned mormon castration during the period, that would have given a clearer picture of this period called the Mormon Reformation.
Morgs on the Board, do you need references for any of this? Of course not, because the truth is afraid of questions. The truth is afraid of it's own history, it's own writings, it's own shadow. The truth could all fall apart. Truth is such a fragile thing, in Mormon-dumb.
Quandry, I appreciate your comments on another thread. Thanks. Is your wife a Morg? I was amazed. After the program, my believing wife said "well we dont know... we weren't there... we don't know how accurate any of this is. Of couse she says the same thing when I try to show her the same things in the writings of "the prophets", the Journal of Discourses, Church history, their journals etc. I can have lds books open to pages. She simply refuses to even look at them. She calls that stuff "anti mormon material", when it really is their own books, available through Deseret Book. My god, they won't even look at their own publications!!! It's amazing the grip the cult has on the minds of people.
i recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
I've said a few winners I've regretted later too.
If you have any links to any of the evidences, that would be appreciated.
Best,
FM
it gave my wife (i only have 1, thank you very much) a few wtf moments when we first saw it last year.
check your local listings for times.
It gave my wife (I only have 1, thank you very much) a few WTF moments when we first saw it last year. Check your local listings for times.
in this thread i mentioned having a long chat with an elder last summer.
i didn't realize i had never posted the story, so here it is.. last summer (when i went to buy my new camera lens) i ran into one of my favorite jws at the photography shop.
he was buying a camera bag for his new dslr, and i saw him, went up and greeted him, hugged him.
Mulan wrote:
That was really good reading. Thanks for sharing. Wish I had seen it sooner.
You did a great job.
One more point on the Mormons. When I was about 20, the Mormons had the same number of members as the JW's. The last time I saw a number is was 22 million. That's about 4 times the number of JW's. They are doing something very right. And their kids aren't retreating to the world in record numbers. They lose some, but most stay in the faith.
Don't worry, I'm not going to convert. Done with religion forever.
The last numbers I heard was around 13 million. This figure is likely highly inflated--probably by a factor of two (7ish million). People inside the COB (church office building) in Salt Lake report that there are 110 year olds, excommunicated and people who have asked for membership removal who are still counted as part of the 13 million. Far greater are the numbers of people who just disappear and go inactive. The church has quite an apparatus for tracking down paying subscribers (tithe payers). Even with that, there are significant numbers who have simply walked away. Where I grew up in California, there used to be a substantial Mormon presence. Around my home, 3 stakes were collapsed into one. Of the 9 kids in my age group that I grew up with, I think two are active. Sure we started off active, went on missions, married in the temples... and found out about the lies or just drifted off.
Sorry if I burst your bubble. Cheers, Mulan.
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft36.htm.
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft26.htm.
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft31.htm.
Ihid,
You are SOOOO going to hell for revealing sacred temple secrets...
.....maybe we can be next door neighbors.
By the way, my temple name is Ammon.
For the rest of the forum, which is MORE true... exJW's or exMo's?
i recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
Q,
OK so you were finally specific enough to say that it was ME you were referencing. Besides this, I still haven't heard any specifics. You mentioned preparatory vs fullness of gospel...OK... when did this or how does this tie into any of our conversations SPECIFICALLY? Where are my "holes". I can show you MANY in the LDS church.
SusanHere,
I am soo glad you found the answers because my Stake President still doesn't have any for me. You have reviewed the anti-lds material and have the solutions. Two quick questions:
1. Zina Huntington Jacobs Smith Young. Born 1821. Look her up on the MORMON website http://www.familysearch.org/.
You will see she was married to Jacobs and Smith concurrently AND Jacobs and Young concurrently. This is troubling LDS history. The Morg lies about it's troubling history. At
http://www.lds.org/pa/display/0,17884,5511-1,00.html it says Henry (her first hubby) died and left her a widow. At http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=21bc9fbee98db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=ba0bca99be2ab010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 it says she AND the BOYSWERE DESERTED by Henry. Which is it? These are LDS sites remember. Familysearch shows Brigham married her when she was 8 months pregnant--before her second son was born. How could Henry both die AND desert his kids when the LDS record clearly shows Bring 'em Young stole his wife before Henry could have abandoned his son s, one of which hadn't been born yet? 2. How can I believe in the prophetic discernment of the "prophets", when Apostle Albert Carrington had a 14 year affair with multiple women (not his wives) He was exed in 1885 after a husband of a woman he "had" kept begging the first presidency to do something FOR TEN YEARS before Albert was finally exed. How can I believe in the prophetic discernment of the "prophets", when Apostle Richard R Lyman had an 18 year affair with another woman from 1925 until 1943 when it was finally detected and he was exed. I thought prophets were led by inspiration. I thought immorality was next to murder in seriousness. Can such unworthy men be apostles? Google them Albert Carrington and Richard R. Lyman. Why am I here? 1. I can't stand to see lies by cult members apparently trying to move some sheep. 2. If I can show my wife the cult techniques/history/stories of the JW cult, then hopefully she will see the same cultish techniques in the mormon church. 3. I feel a kinship with other recovering cult victims. It feels strangely healing to be friendly with my former mission adversaries. I feel like the opposing WW1 forces who crossed the line and shared Christmas. 4. When I see the dumb ass things JW's were taught and believed, I don't feel so bad about the ridiculous dumb ass things I believed.
i recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
QCMBR,
You said:
Hey I like the style of the 'enlightened' ones let's see how it goes:
Slam the poster / their belief / throw around a few tough guy words. In particular start defining what the poster's ulterior motives are. Don't bother about alternatives - just make it up as you go and dare anyone to contradict you.
Then in the best twist of all have the audacity to suggest that any defence of the posters (whether it be to correct, balance or merely refute) is cult methodology. You guys don't look in the mirror much.
Hell is both a place (Outer Darkness - please refer to previous posts regarding what that is) and a state of being - thus you can quite possibly create hell here by your attitude and actions or by the environment you find yourself in (it may well not be your choice.) Not achieving your potential is likened to a state of hell and damnation because you will always be aware of what you are (better) than where you are - a bit like a champion runner dropping out of the race due to apathy and having to watch others take the medals. Heaven is split into many 'mansions' or degrees and failing to reach the highest may be considered hell even though each 'mansion' is supposedly very desirable (no more death and pain.)
It really is as simple as that.
You are really talking in vague terms and vague accusations. Can you be more clear on WHICH poster and what they did that can be identified or argued as incorrect? I and other posters have, in the past, spoken of cultish tools used by the Morg and KH. I have spoken specifically of isolation techniques, hope/fear whiplash, rewriting/lieing about historical events, dividing family for non conformity, etc. Others have posted about KH "managing" their history.
It is interesting to see that FLDS leader Warren Jeffs has, on video, admitted he was never a prophet. Still people continue to attend FLDS meetinghouses. I am astounded by the blindness of family members and Mormon posters here. I can have an open copy of Church History in front of them showing lies preached by Joseph's Myth. Lies which hurt the reputations of others. The god I want to believe in does not work that way. Still, believing Morgs refuse to read it out of the own Church History, or JOD, or journals, etc.
Like other posters have said, I am amazed be LIE ving mormons would frequent this board.
I still cant get my Stake President, Bishop, SusanHere, QCMBR or anyone to answer any of thew serious accusations against the LDS church. Could it be because there is no defense? My stake president can't/wont answer my questions. Until he can, he wants ME to refrain from talking to MY kids about the church at all. I call BULLSH1T.
QCMBR, I've heard all the pretzel thought you gave about what hell is-- not having a celestial home as nice as the jones next door, not fufilling your potential, etc. You are ignoring the fact that there are independent descriptions of hell in mormon standard works that are in contradiction to each other. WHY ISN"T THE THREE DEGREES MENTIONED IN THE BOM??? PREEXISTENCE? ETERNAL MARRIAGE? WORD OF WISDOM? TEMPLE WORK? The "nephites" had this knowledge and more... remember they had more light and truth than we... and it's in the sealed portion of the mythical gold plates. They had more truth, yet the HUGE cornerstones of mormonism failed to be mentioned in a thousand year historical "record". BULLSHlT!!
i recently starting watching the hbo drama "big love" and was wondering.
if anyone here who is a mormon or used to be one or is connected to mormons.
somehow has seen the show, and what you think of it.. .
Thanks for your comments Dave. While the specifics of abuse are different, the tools and tactics of our respective cults are very similar. A year ago I never would have thought I would feel such kinship with ex JW's.
The scary admission is... I still go to the Mormon church. If you peruse postmormon.org or exmormon.org, there are actually a lot of us in recovery WHILE WE STILL ATTEND THE CULT--weekly. I go (just to Sacrament Meeting), because my wife is still a believer. Many of us stay for cultural or family reasons. I haven't tithed since June, when the web started opening my eyes. As I begin to recognize cultish tools, it has become increasingly difficult to go without wanting to stand up and scream "bullshit"!!! I am reading some things with my wife, and I think she is starting to think "WTF" on some of the troubling things in LDS history. Wish me luck, and kind wishes in your recovery.
FM
