Isn't churn a bad thing? It lowers the potential numbers with the losses, plus you have more and more people against the faith creating even more people to leave. Imagine how large the group would be if over the last 20+ years the numbers lost were much lower. I would love to see those stats.
Robert7
JoinedPosts by Robert7
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34
A gradual decline or sudden collapse for the WTS?
by DT inmany of us believe the days of the watchower society may be numbered.
they are receiving an unprecedented amount of well deserved negative publicity.
however, they are still experiencing modest growth.
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Well, The Elders & Circuit Overseer Came By Tonight To See If We Are Celeb.
by Lady Liberty inhello dear friends.... well..the saga continues!!
as many of you know last new years the jws attacked our "frosty" and egged our home.
" the co said, "so you are both not willing to meet with the elders..?".
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Robert7
The abuse cases are an eye-opening event. Does anyone have any credible links you can send me that provides more general info? I am looking for (if possible) something that describes the number of known cases, suspected cases, and how much has been paid out in the last x years... I am trying Google queries but I get a lot of message boards and discussions. I am looking for real ammo here.
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Where have you turned to?
by Robert7 ini am very curious, since i am myself trying to figure out where to turn to, if anywhwere.
(i am still debating if i am truly an atheist at heart and religion in general turns me off at least as of now) where have you turned to since you left the wt?
i would imagine that many people who became witnesses had spiritual needs (which is ironic why i am feeling atheist, lol) but have you gone to other churches, stopped going to church, become atheist, etc?
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Robert7
I am very curious, since I am myself trying to figure out where to turn to, if anywhwere. (I am still debating if I am truly an Atheist at heart and religion in general turns me off at least as of now) Where have you turned to since you left the WT? I would imagine that many people who became Witnesses had spiritual needs (which is ironic why I am feeling Atheist, lol) but have you gone to other churches, stopped going to church, become Atheist, etc?
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What is being "worldly"
by Burger Time inyes i know what the jw definition is of being worldly, but seeing people who grew up and their stories it got me thinking; is worldliness just as bad in house as out?
as an example, dating.
ok almost everyone i know still did the same thing worldly kids did when they dated only you had to take one little extra step to get some alone time with your sweetness.
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Robert7
Along that thread, I am also just as curious to know how people are doing in "the world". Of course at the Hall everyone says that without the Truth life has no meaning, you have no hope, no good friends, etc.
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Observation of WT during Assembly
by Robert7 inso i recently attended an assembly day, and this added ammo as to why i am turned off:
- they did a very good job saying how anything that is not 'of jehovah' is worldly and from the devil.
so black & white.
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Robert7
Here's what I loved. They announced "How amazing it is that over 6 million worldwide are united in worship" How is it united when you are forced to adhere to the doctrine and if you stray in any way you get smacked? These people don't choose to be united, they are forced to!
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Observation of WT during Assembly
by Robert7 inso i recently attended an assembly day, and this added ammo as to why i am turned off:
- they did a very good job saying how anything that is not 'of jehovah' is worldly and from the devil.
so black & white.
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Robert7
So I recently attended an Assembly day, and this added ammo as to why I am turned off: - They did a very good job saying how anything that is not 'Of Jehovah' is worldly and from the Devil. SO black & white. This includes any thoughts, associations, entertainment, actions, dress, etc. So you must be 100% in agreement with WT doctrine, or you are becoming part of the world. - At least 1/3 of the time was repatition of how this is The Truth and everything is wrong and in darkness. It is obvious that these constant reminders helps convince people that this is the truth. Ironically their definition of the true religion is based on criteria that THEY define! So of course they will meet them. - They specifically said "The ONLY road to salvation and everlasting life is thru the Watchtower Organization". How bold. This means that if you do not adhere to all the rules and control, you risk losing salvation! Talk about control. - There was a reminder not to think worldly thoughts and read any apostate literature (shame on me) because the Devil is sneaky and will try to weaken everyone's spirituality. - Service service service. Constant reminders that you have to keep preaching as much as you can. I have to admit, on the other hand it is so nice to be a blissfully content follower and part of me just wishes I could be like that. You have good friends, a strong faith, and live a clean moral life. Deep down I just don't buy it and I just can't force myself to do it, which is why I am here... Any thoughts?
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What Was Your Standing In The Congregation?
by minimus inwere you "loved"?
well respected?
considered a "loser"?.
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Robert7
For me the question is "What IS your standing?".
I am now working on slipping out of the meetings. Funny thing is, it is SO NOT true that "you cannot ever leave". The fact is, you can very easily leave, you just stop going, they cannot make you go. Where it is SO tough is the grips they have. Being shunned, viewed as evil, losing friends, etc.
After 10 years baptised, my standing is that I have never studied for meetings, I never comment anymore, I put in a very minimal field service time out of pressure to stay active. I have no responsibilities (and actually never had them which I was fine with, they make it seem like holding a Mike is such a great priviledge), and I never go to book studies. In the last 10 years, I never (or virtually never) prayed (which is why I feel like I've always been an Atheist at heart). So I only just showed up to Sunday meetings and the School.
However, until recently, I always 'believed' the story. This world is falling apart, you have to be in 'The Truth' to live. The new system is coming, etc etc etc. But given this, I never did any work, so I guess I didn't believe it that much.
I've been looking at all my beliefs recently, and everything I hear at meetings seem like such brainwashing and false, and this is why I'm looking to fade away...
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I think I am an Atheist (current JW)
by Robert7 ini am writing this group to discuss a topic that as you can imagine i really cannot discuss with too many people, at least as of now.
i am a married male jw, married to a another jw, and she's content with being a witness, and in fact, i don't want to change that if she's happy.. for a very brief history, i was baptized at 19, and have been a jw for 10 years.
fact is, i 'believed' in everything in as much as a lot of it 'made sense' and i was wrapped up in the whole thing.
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Robert7
My "goal" is to go to Sunday meetings with the family and nothing else. Hopefully this will pacify the family and let me fade and not be bothered. As of right now, I would prefer that my family continue going to meetings as they wish only because there is still good spiritual information learned. I am not ready to work on them yet as this all is way too early. I have been feeling like this for years, but just recently (like a week ago) actually realized consciously that I don't want to go to meetings anymore. I need to detox a little...
In terms of my feelings of God, I guess it makes sense that there is a God. The world and life seems to great to be an accident. But Religion and God are two WAY different things. So I believe that there may be a God, and at least as of now that's where I'll leave it.
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I think I am an Atheist (current JW)
by Robert7 ini am writing this group to discuss a topic that as you can imagine i really cannot discuss with too many people, at least as of now.
i am a married male jw, married to a another jw, and she's content with being a witness, and in fact, i don't want to change that if she's happy.. for a very brief history, i was baptized at 19, and have been a jw for 10 years.
fact is, i 'believed' in everything in as much as a lot of it 'made sense' and i was wrapped up in the whole thing.
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Robert7
Hello and thanks for your comments so far. Just to clarify (I skipped this important fact), my wife and I had a heart to hear talk, and actually guess that I am basically an Atheist. She can see by my actions, plus she knows me well :) However, I have never discussed the fact that I want to stop going to meetings.
Problem is, it's one thing to know that (because there is still hope), and another to take that next step and stop going to meetings. Her knowing already how I feel helps, but it will still be difficult.
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I think I am an Atheist (current JW)
by Robert7 ini am writing this group to discuss a topic that as you can imagine i really cannot discuss with too many people, at least as of now.
i am a married male jw, married to a another jw, and she's content with being a witness, and in fact, i don't want to change that if she's happy.. for a very brief history, i was baptized at 19, and have been a jw for 10 years.
fact is, i 'believed' in everything in as much as a lot of it 'made sense' and i was wrapped up in the whole thing.
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Robert7
I am writing this group to discuss a topic that as you can imagine I really cannot discuss with too many people, at least as of now. I am a married male JW, married to a another JW, and she's content with being a Witness, and in fact, I don't want to change that if she's happy.
For a very brief history, I was baptized at 19, and have been a JW for 10 years. Fact is, I 'believed' in everything in as much as a lot of it 'made sense' and I was wrapped up in the whole thing. Over the years though, I slowly have been falling away to where I really feel Atheist. Here are some of the major reasons (that are in addition to the more 'obvious' ones that most people complain about):
- I NEVER believed in the whole story around 1914 and the brothers being imprisoned, and how that was part of bible prophesy. This also includes the related stories in that timeframe. Just always sounded so reverse-engineered to make it sound like the WTS is the real deal. I actually have a hard time with this, because this is a 'core' doctrine.
- Meetings had so much fluff, that I can't stand going to them. Same old thing being repeated and we have to EVERY TIME act as if it's the first time I heard it. Then there's meetings about meetings that kill me.
- SO much pressure on preaching. You are evil if you don't preach. I enjoyed it in the early years, but can't stand it now. I only do the minimal to stay 'active' and to keep my wife happy.
- So much pressure to go to meetings. 3 days a week. That's a lot of time and you really don't learn all that much. It just takes away my personal time, and it drives me nuts. I rarely go to book study, so it's lesser of an issue.
- I am having a hard time believing that the JWs are 'The Truth' and the only truth. They are good people doing nothing wrong, and are trying to do the right thing, but just doesn't make sense.
- I hate how much downplay there is to everything in this system. (although I do agree a lot of things are messed up) They have you believe that everything here and now sucks and we can't wait for the new system. Don't go to college, it's a waste of time, focus on the new system. I never felt that either. I went to college and have a good career allowing me to live a good lifestyle without struggling.
- I never had a 'love for God', you can say I really don't believe in a God. I never felt any emotion that there is a God. God and religion seem to just be a good way to explain the unexplainable and keep people under control. I swear I hate when people attribute just good timing or coincidence to God. Every faith in the world who has good luck says it's God's blessing.
- Along with the comment above, I really don't believe in Religion anymore in general. It's there to fill some void people have always had to explain things and to keep others in control.
The problem with just being an Atheist (and stop being a JW) is probably the same as many. I have a wife and kids whom I don't want to disappoint. I have parents who will be disappointed, plus I truly would feel awkard with the family members I fought against who shunned me becoming a Witness. Then there's the social aspect. I have many good friends in the Congregation (and they truly are good people) and I don't want to be shunned.
However, I cannot fake it. I think I am an Atheist, and I cannot fake being a Witness, and this has been really hard. I don't want to disassociate myself from the congregation (I will not be writing any letters), I just don't want to go to meetings, and I don't want to go out preaching.
Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, or experiences that could help? Thanks so much.