Same back to you, Mouthy!!
I also miss my 75 and 80-year old JW parents, although they're 1000 miles away from me physically and now even farther emotionally.
Keep up your "evil" ways. We love you here!
Posts by Gopher
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25I don't know if this is already posted
by mouthy inplease for give me if it is.
i just received a call from an ex jw who was df the same time as me.. for not accepting 1914..... she picked up the wt at the library,jan 1st 2013 page 8 they there .
admit they have made errors in the dates they have given.....maybe this is why so many are leaving.. they told us that 1914 born folks would see armegeddon .i was born in 1927...i am 86 in may????.
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Gopher
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Being an Orphan Hurts No Matter What Age
by WhoLovesMagic inwhat kind of parents forget the day you were born?
jehovah's witness(es)!!!.
yes today is my 3rd birthday (only started celebrating 3 years ago).
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Gopher
Happy Birthday from ALL of us at JWN !!!
I have used the word "orphan" to describe the way I've felt since being DF'd in 2000 on dubious charges, and my parents chose to believe the organization over me. Fortunately they're just a speck in my rear-view mirror as I have moved on to people who seem to actually care about me. Life is too short, I can't wait for folks to decide to change their mind and show basic family love or even friendship.
On a side note, if you don't want to DA - you don't need to. No need to go by Watchtower rules and apply for a change of status, unless you really feel like it would help you make a clean break from that man-dominated organization.
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25
I don't know if this is already posted
by mouthy inplease for give me if it is.
i just received a call from an ex jw who was df the same time as me.. for not accepting 1914..... she picked up the wt at the library,jan 1st 2013 page 8 they there .
admit they have made errors in the dates they have given.....maybe this is why so many are leaving.. they told us that 1914 born folks would see armegeddon .i was born in 1927...i am 86 in may????.
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Gopher
Mouthy:
You are welcome. You are not stupid; it would have been stupid not even to ask.
I was more than happy to direct you to the correct discussion thread!! I don't know if you remember but I formerly posted here a lot more often than I do now. I have really enjoyed being acquainted with you, from a distance, for a long time.
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25
I don't know if this is already posted
by mouthy inplease for give me if it is.
i just received a call from an ex jw who was df the same time as me.. for not accepting 1914..... she picked up the wt at the library,jan 1st 2013 page 8 they there .
admit they have made errors in the dates they have given.....maybe this is why so many are leaving.. they told us that 1914 born folks would see armegeddon .i was born in 1927...i am 86 in may????.
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Gopher
Yes it was posted here:
They sort of admit it, but they frame it as "wrong expectations" instead of "false prophecies". And then it seems they praise themselves for having wrong expectations by comparing their wrong expectations to the over-eagerness for the Kingdom by the 1st century apostles.
So this is another strange way for them to glorify how wonderful they are.
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Cold Fusion Update: NASA
by metatron inhttp://climate.nasa.gov/news/864?goback=.gmp_4132340.gde_4132340_member_214671553.
yup, nasa.
talking about cold fusion.
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Gopher
I first thought "oh no!" when I read the title "cold fusion", for which the earliest experimenters may have been little more than publicity hounds.
But then when I saw that the article came from a NASA page, it caught my interest. It seems to me that if an answer to this riddle is ever found, it will be worth all the convolutions it took to get there.
Sometimes though, the research takes them in some other direction where the resolution turns out to be something they didn't expect. One concern I have is whether there will be any byproducts from this that we have to safely store away like we do with fission. (Sorry if that's an ignorant question.)
I'm glad various kinds of approaches are being tried by some serious scientists, whether anything comes of this or not.
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The problems with fighting the WTS
by return of parakeet inover the years, many well-intentioned posters have been frustrated when they ask fellow apostates (wear the name proudly!
) to band together to let the world know how corrupt and destructive the wt cult is.
i think there are some hard facts about this particular cult that make combatting it so frustrating:.
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Gopher
ROP,
I think your points are spot-on. The world at large is generally more interested in scandals surrounding larger groups (Catholics) or freakier, even harsher groups (Scientologists).
The ones who care the most about Watchtower issues are those who've been directly affected by Watchtowerism, and those that care the most tend to come to internet groups (of which this is the world's largest).
One other factor may be that many who have escaped the JW's are just glad to have escaped, and take many years (maybe decades) just to normalize their lives, and are trying to put Watchtower effects behind them. However among the escapees (and never-been-JW's like poster Jgnat who care about WT issues) are people who are able to muster up concern and care so as to make good information available for questioning JW's and those who question JW's.
However, it seems that trying to mobilize us into a large united group is like trying to herd many different breeds of cats. If the Watchtower claims that apostates and opposers "unite together" against their form of worship, they are wrong. We are all against their cultish ways, but respell "united" and you get "untied" which is more accurate.
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I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them
by minimus in...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.
people will believe what they want to believe..
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Gopher
If somebody asks me why I do or don't do or believe or not believe something, I will tell them why and leave it at that.
LHG - I totally agree, if we're discussing beliefs or interpretations of facts/events. Further, if a person refuses to believe universal facts (e.g. man landed on the moon in 1969), then it's really hard to continue a discussion with them.
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I've Come To Realize That "Facts" Don't Mean Much If A Person Refuses To Accept Them
by minimus in...and that applies to religion as well as politics.. if someone simply believes such and such is true, it doesn't really matter whether you "prove" it or not.
people will believe what they want to believe..
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Gopher
Is it safe to say without reading 8 pages of long winded posts, that this thread actually proves Minimus title of OP to be true/fact?
I would hope that even though the discussion was detailed/lengthy, that it opened up some good discussion and helped us come to some semblance of facts vs. viewpoints and what people will and won't accept.
If we are discussing universal "facts" - those which the form the basis of conversation among groups of people with different backgrounds (as opposed to isolated personal experiences or isolated events), then I would say the title of this thread isn't exactly accurate. Proven facts matter, whether or not a person refuses to accept them. The facts may not be important to the refuser, but that does not diminish their importance on the whole.
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MIT Survey on science, religion and origins
by Pterist ininteresting read and graph:.
*****i'd been warned.
a friend cautioned me that if we went ahead and posted our mit survey on science, religion and origins, i'd get inundated with hate-mail from religious fundamentalists who believe our universe to be less than 10,000 years old.
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Gopher
Tammy,
You may find the following link informative on the divide between those who like the Big Bang Theory and those who do not.
http://www.school-for-champions.com/religion/big_bang_theory_and_religion.htm
Certain religionists resist it because the way they teach the Bible, the whole universe should be only be about 6,000 or 7,000 years old. The Big Bang Theory supports the science that shows the universe is billions of years old.
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Pulling the rug out from under the "apostates"
by konceptual99 inwould anyone agree that recent comments and changes to wt doctrine are designed to try and pull the rug out from under long established counter reasoning put forward by those the wt would consider apostates?.
the section in the recent wt, whilst not an apology, is apologist in it's tone and suggests that the wt society has just been doing the right thing by setting expectations.. apostate: "you keep saying the end is coming and it still hasn't.".
wt - "well, our zeal in following jesus may have prompted us to raise expectations too much but we are only doing what we are asked to do.".
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Gopher
The Watchtower tells its adherents to stay off the Internet. That way they can't tell where all this wonderful new wisdom is coming from. It's because of pressure by apostates pointing out all the logical fallacies.
They will never resolve the 607 / 1914 fallacy until they drop the teaching.
As for the others, the Watchtower will never be able to cover their tracks, showing all the god-awful stuff they used to teach and the fact that they change their doctrines more than any other religion known to mankind.
So I give a big "WELL DONE" to those who have carefully chronicled Watchtower fallacies. They will continue to provide us much fodder for a long time.