Pulling the rug out from under the "apostates"

by konceptual99 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Would anyone agree that recent comments and changes to WT doctrine are designed to try and pull the rug out from under long established counter reasoning put forward by those the WT would consider apostates?

    For example:

    1 - Wrong expectations. The section in the recent WT, whilst not an apology, is apologist in it's tone and suggests that the WT society has just been doing the right thing by setting expectations.

    Apostate: "You keep saying the end is coming and it still hasn't."

    WT - "Well, our zeal in following Jesus may have prompted us to raise expectations too much but we are only doing what we are asked to do."

    2 - Generations. The current teaching along with a reduced emphasis on dates suggests that the WT can easily argue that it is not setting a time limit on things even though it constantly preaches the nearness of the end.

    Apostate: "We are well over what anyone would reasonably suggest a generation is since 1914."

    WT - "Well, the bible clearly shows that it is not 70/80 years, but an overlapping generation. Regardless, we are not focused on a date just on the fact the end will come. In line with that we are maintaining our preaching work through these last days however long Jehovah allows them to continue."

    3 - F&DS definition. The change to the doctrine about who the F&DS are reduces the impact of the growing number of anointed ones.

    Apostate: "If we are close to the end of the last days, why has the number of anointed ones grown by 50% in 6 years?"

    WT: "Well, it's up to individual's conscience if they partake and there is biblical proof that the gathering of the 144000 continues through the last days. Regardless, the critical thing is that it is the group of anointed responsible for dispensing the spiritual food at the proper time are doing that faithfully since these are the ones that Jesus has asked to do this work and will soon examine once again so as to appoint over all his belongings. The rest of those that claim a heavenly calling we shall just have to leave to Jehovah to examine directly."

    4 - F&DS appointment. The doctrine that Jesus did not appoint the F&DS over his belongings in 1918/19 means that all the false teachings at that time are irrelevant.

    Apostate: "So, given the WT were teaching just rubbish in the lead up to 1914-19, how exactly was Jesus able to appoint them over all his belongings?"

    WT: "Well, the facts are that he did not. Right now the F&DS have the role of dispensing food at the proper time to his domestics. This, they are trying to do as faithfully as possible. As light gets brighter so the food changes at the proper time. Jesus will at a future point inspect the F&DS once again and we are confident that our prayers shall be answered and an appointment over his belongings shall be forthcoming. After all, no other organisation on earth is preaching the truth and pointing mankind to God's kingdom."

    5 - 607. Tricky one this as the evidence is overwhelming that it's the wrong date but they have recently published an updated rebuttal which is convincing for those who want to believe it.

    Apostate: "607 is a crock of the brown stuff".

    WT: "No it's not. This was recently addressed in the WT and we shall always follow scriptual, Bible chronology even if it has not yet been validated by secular historians. No doubt the future shall bring a validation of the biblical facts but even if not we know we are showing faith in Jehovah's written word."

    Apostate: "But all your rebuttals have been comprehensively debunked."

    WT: "Only by apostates and we know that no faithful witness would even read such Satanic material let alone be swayed by such lies."

    On top of all of these there are the silences in the publications about anthropology, archeology, geology, biology, chemistry etc. where science is constantly throwing evidence of the age of humankind and the development of the natural world around is that contradicts the Bible over and over again. All they do is promote the views of a few educated ones and emotive comparisons (e.g. "what do you think, could this amazing thing in nature really have come about through evolution") and make it sound as if you must be mad to accept anything scientific where is disagrees with the Bible.

    Have the WT society undermined a number of core arguments that thinking ones have been considering?

  • NoRegrets
    NoRegrets

    I agree with all of this. I feel like the WT is almost directly engaging the most common complaints from the general ex-JW community. Their answers are sideways-speak, unsatisfying, and miss the point. But they are attempting to answer things. I think it is pre-emptive arguing put in place for the rank-in-file members who might visit a site out of curiosity but still brainwashed enough to be appeased by these answers!

    NR

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I forget who said it but I thought he was right-on; the WTS is reactionary, not visionary.

    It is responding to perceived threats. In the process, the WTS looks a little more autocratic and arbitrary. These inadequate reactions has disillusioned more JW's, IMO.

    2 - The generations compromise is just stupid.

    3 - The FDS definition cuts out the common man. The heirarchy could not be more clear.

    I think their new website and alternative presentation methods are also a reaction to "apostate" criticism. Door-to-door work is antiquated, so they are gradually replacing that. Opening the door to internet access by the use of iPads for instance is going to backfire on them. They have essentially condoned the use of the internet. As we know, besides being a hotbed for porn and gambling sites, the internet has a lot of free information.

    I am encouraged by their opening of a twitter account. It allows us for the first time to message them back. May we all make full use of that.

    By behaving as a reactionary organization rather than visionary, it sucks all the vital juices out of the organization. It's boring, stilted, autocratic, going-through-the-motions. It will always be a step behind our dynamic society.

    Walking Man

    To see lively, dynamic change, the WTS has to learn how to say, "We were wrong. I am sorry."

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Absolutely true.. They have been forced to address these issues, the most recent being the comment on their "failed expectations" that were so well motivated and only show that they were doing their job as Watchmen.

    Of course the timid answers they give are nonsense, and would not reach any of us who have really read the other side of the arguments. However, they are not written for that . The articles are written for the benefit of those still inside, who will believe unquestioningly. They can say " The Society has answered that point".....If we disagree it just shows (to them) how unreasonable we are.

    Re Twitter ? A discussion on JWTalk concluded that it was "unofficial" from an unknown source, not the actual WTS..I have not been on Twitter

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    I have said this a few times before. The purpose specifically of some of these things is simply to disarm dissent arguements. I agree 100%.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    The Watchtower tells its adherents to stay off the Internet. That way they can't tell where all this wonderful new wisdom is coming from. It's because of pressure by apostates pointing out all the logical fallacies.

    They will never resolve the 607 / 1914 fallacy until they drop the teaching.

    As for the others, the Watchtower will never be able to cover their tracks, showing all the god-awful stuff they used to teach and the fact that they change their doctrines more than any other religion known to mankind.

    So I give a big "WELL DONE" to those who have carefully chronicled Watchtower fallacies. They will continue to provide us much fodder for a long time.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I think its more of two possible consequences, one being that many of the organization's past doctrines, concerning the great tribulation /Armageddon

    have never appeared true, there are being instinctively perceived by many of todays JWS that they were indeed just commercialized doctrines to

    attract attention to the organization's literature.

    Never in the history of the WTS. organization and the JWS has there been so much revealing open exposure about the organization,

    helped along by the inter-net.

    The age of information has become a real hindrance for the organization.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    The WBT$ would be better off..

    Trying to Pull a Rabbit out of their Ass..

    The WBT$ Idiot Club..

    ...........................  mutley-ani1.gif ...OUTLAW

  • TD
    TD
    Would anyone agree that recent comments and changes to WT doctrine are designed to try and pull the rug out from under long established counter reasoning put forward by those the WT would consider apostates?

    I've noticed the trend, but believe it's aimed more at nagging little doubts in the rank and file rather than, 'Apostate' reasoning itself.

    Simple example:

    2 - Generations. The current teaching along with a reduced emphasis on dates suggests that the WT can easily argue that it is not setting a time limit on things even though it constantly preaches the nearness of the end.
    Apostate: "We are well over what anyone would reasonably suggest a generation is since 1914."
    WT - "Well, the bible clearly shows that it is not 70/80 years, but an overlapping generation. Regardless, we are not focused on a date just on the fact the end will come. In line with that we are maintaining our preaching work through these last days however long Jehovah allows them to continue."

    Word games with the word, 'Generation' don't really fix the underlying problem and any reasonably intelligent 'Apostate' knows this. Too many other doctrines were formulated when a time constraint was clearly understood.

    In JW theology, you can't even be a 'Prospective' member of the 'Great Crowd' if the 'Great Tribulation' is an event so far in the future that you won't live to see it. That's the whole reason why (Again, in JW theology) there was only one 'Hope' (The heavenly calling) from Pentecost clear up until we were well into 'The Time of the End'.

    Well, the 'Great Crowd' got identified in 1935 and a twenty five year old at the time will be one hundred and three this year. And the clock is still ticking...

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    {They] were so well motivated and only show that they were doing their job as Watchmen

    Isn't that a quote from Harold Camping?

    Or, was it Jim Jones or David Koresh or . . . . ?

    Doc

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