Posts by Gordy

23

Why do we tell our stories: reconsidered

by Lady Lee in

many of us were victims of various kinds of abuse: physical, emotional, sexual and definitely spiritual abuses.

many people have created an atmosphere where it is finally safe for us to tell our stories.

we do this for a variety of reasons.

Gordy

Its now 7 years since I decided to stop attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall and 5 years since I DA'd.

I often have wondered why do I still keep this "connection" with the Watchtower. Considering that they broke my family up, their lack of compasssion and support when it was needed.

A couple of times I have thought thats it no more looking at forums or websites etc about JW's.

But then I will get an e-mail off someone who has seen my testimony on some website. They are usually from someone who knows a JW, is studying with JW's or a even a JW having doubts or is leaving or has left. These then set me off again on the Watchtowers tail. I'm not going to leave them at the WT's mercy. If I can point them in the right direction or say something that makes them think, then its worth it.

We who have been JW's know the old saying "You can leave the Watchtower, but the Watchtower never leaves you." it is always there in the back of your mind.

We must do all we can to stop others falling into the clutches of the WT or to bring them out.

This is why we tell or stories.

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Incidentally I also get the occassional mail from an active JW. Who usually tell me I'm going to die at Armageddon. I recently had one which called me a F**king stupid pig for leaving "Jehovahs organisation, just like Satan did. I replied nicely, asking for clarification why I should still be a JW. A reply came back saying I was still a "stupid pig" and he doesn't speak to "apostates". I replied that the only way he could have got my e-mail address is that he must have seen my testimony on an "apostate" website. Which was going against WT directives , especially after the resolution at this years conventions. I then sent information regarding paedophiles, UN, and some other stuff. I have not heard from him again.

27

New Watchtower - Who is the Antichrist?

by TheKings in

i admit to being curious as soon as i saw this new bit of propoganda put on the dining room table 'casually' in my view by my mother.

i know i can't look at any of the magazines without being questioned why...so i took a look while i had some private time.. what a fine lot of manure... :p. .

they must be getting scared in brooklyn.

Gordy

What date is this Watchtower?

Will try and get a copy.

28

How can twelve years olds get baptized? it is crazy!

by happehanna in

jw
friends

my daughter's step child is getting baptized at the ripe old age of 12.. my sil is angry and i feel he should try and stop it through the courts, but they feel that would make his ex more determined for baptism to go ahead.. this child has no idea of the mistake they are making .

would she get married at 12?.

it is so sad and irresponsible for a child to take this step.. .

Gordy

At the last Circuit Assembly of my former congregation.

They had 12 baptised.

The oldest was 16, the average age I was told 14.

14

Looking for Testimonies

by Veritas777 in

i am very interested to hear the various accounts of why, and how you ex- jw's were brought out from under the watch tower.

are the really mny jw's who are actually looking for freedome from the watch tower thank you.

Gordy

Basically, at a time when I needed love and support, because of depression and attempted suicide. All I got was a Judicial Committee. Later on told to leave my family because I was a "spiritual danger" to them. This after being a JW for 25 years at the time and a Min Servant. This led me to question "Jehovahs loving organisation" as they think it is. I started looking into their history and teachings etc. I spent nearly three years research before eventually leaving.

I came across this forum which was, and still is, a tremendous help, because you realise its not just you who has these experiences and thoughts about the WT.

7

And Moses said unto the Lord: Ten what?

by Gordy in

Gordy

From the Daily Mail 25/10/06

And Moses said unto the Lord: Ten what?

God: What are you doing with the stone tablets with my Ten Commandments on.? I thought I told you to take them down the mountain to read to the multitude?

Moses: Yes, you did, but I need to talk to you about that.

God: What there to talk about? Simple enough task.

Moses: That’s what I thought. Until Health and Safety spotted me trying to carry the tablets.

God: What have they got to do with it?

Moses: Well, they reckoned that it was either going to do my back in or I was going to drop them on my foot, or somebody elses. So H&S decided I would have to fill in a risk assessment form first.

God: Anything else?

Moses: As a matter of fact , yes. It was then the PC brigade got involved. Said the title was to abrupt. Didn’t leave room for negotiation.

God: That was the idea. They are commands, that is why they are called the Ten Commandments. The title stays.

Moses: Couple of other things they weren’t happy about.

God: What else were they moaning about?

Moses: Well they didn’t care about the bit about not worshipping other gods. Or having graven images. Said it was discriminatory and might upset other religions.

God: Anything else?

Moses: That bit about honouring thy father and mother. They reckon in single-parent families some kids don’t know who their father is. Sometimes the mother hasn’t a clue either. What with sperm banks, frozen embryos and cloning.

God: Go on

Moses: The advertising people don’t like the one about not coveting. That is how they make their money by telling people not to be happy with what they have got. Both they and politicians are dead against the word “lie” they say its to judgmental. They prefer words or phrases such as “putting a spin on it” or “presenting it in a better light” or “in the public interest”.

God: Still liars though.

Moses: Well they lie for a living.

God: Are there any commandments they are happy about?

Moses: Well. They’re OK with “thou shalt not kill” And the one about stealing, although politicians rob people and call it tax, but that’s apparently alright.
The big stores don’t agree with keeping the Sabbath special. Nobody has mention adultery, but I think they turn a blind eye to that one.

God: I’ve a good mind to send a plague of frogs on them to teach them a lesson.

Moses: NO! Don’t do that or we’ll have the Animal rights people onto us.

7

And Moses said unto the Lord: Ten what?

by Gordy in

Gordy

Having Trouble with computer

7

And Moses said unto the Lord: Ten what?

by Gordy in

Gordy

17

Question about apostosy

by gordon d in

jw
friends

please correct me if i'm wrong.... .

isn't the wtbts's stance on apostacy defined as a member who denounces the authority of one of god's holy spirit inspired spokesmen?

if so, when paul and barnabas had the argument over taking mark on a mission trip.... which one was apostate?

Gordy

Here is the definition of "Apostacy" taken from the section in the Elders manual "Pay Attention to the Flock"

Apostasy.

Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false
doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh.
22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18;2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4)

Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with mercifully. (Jude 22, 23; w82 9/1 pp. 20-1;w80 8/1
pp. 21-2)

Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated
people. (Jer. 17:13; 23:15; 28:15, 16; 2 Thess. 2:9, 10)

Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.

If it is learned that a person has taken up association with another religious organization, the matter should be inves-
tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed.

If it is clearly established that the person has joined another religion and intends to remain with it, the elders would make a brief announcement to the congregation that such- one has disassociated himself. (w86 10/15 p. 31 )

Working secularly for a false religious organization could put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false
doctrine. (2 Cor. 6:14-16)

Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship. (Jer. 7:16-19)

The Bible condemns the following:

Causing divisions and promoting sects.

This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence
of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement.

It may involve or lead to apostasy. (Rom. 16: 17, 18; Titus 3:10, 11 )

The practice of spiritism. (Deut. 18:9-13; I Cor. 10: 21, 22; Gal. 5:20)

Idolatry. ( I Cor. 6:9, 10; 10:14)

Idolatry includes the possession and use of images and pictures that are employed in false religion.

Drunkenness. (I Cor. 5:11; 6:9,10; it-l p. 656)

Stealing, thievery, fraud. (Lev. 6:2, 4; I Cor. 6:9, 10; Eph. 4:28; it-l p. 870)

Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false witness. (Prov. 6: 16, 19; Col. 3:9; Rev. 22:15; it-2 pp. 244-5)

Reviling; slander. (Lev. 19:16; I Cor. 6:10; it-l pp. 989-91; it-2 pp. 801-2)

Obscene speech. (Eph. 5:3-5; Col. 3:8)

Failure to abstain from blood. (Gen. 9:4; Acts 15:20, 28, 29)

Greed‹gambling, extortion. (I Cor. 5:10, 11; 6:10; I Tim. 3:8; it-l pp. 1005-6)

Adamant refusal to provide materially for one's ovn family‹leaving wife and children destitute when having the

71

WT monitors sites?

by Gordy in

jw
friends

there was a post on the other day someone was asking about whether the wt monitors websites such as this and other "apostate" sites.. unfortunately i couldn't find it to add this to it.

i remembered a jw who worked on installing computers at london bethel, some time ago telling me that the wt did monitor websites.

this jw is gradually fading away from being one, so can't say to much about him.

Gordy

I have received another mail from my contact who gave me the information as posted first.

I copy it below as they sent it to me, in it he clarifies a few points:

I looked up the thread you started on JW.com

There are some clever people there - and some right idiots.

FYI COMVERSE is not the Israel Secret Service - thats called MOSSAD - headed by David Goran. COMVERSE is a New York NASDQ company that was started by a small group of Israeli and English people and now headed up by Ze'evi Bregman. Their board is mainly Americans.

BTW did you spot the society mole in that discussion - he stands out a mile
To record conversations you need a single Voice system ( JW's case its Meridian made by Nortel) and an answering/ recording system (In this case made by COMVERSE - but could be anyone, Lucent, Nortel, Alcatel, ADC, Toshiba etc etc etc). In parts of the States it is legal to record calls so long as one of the parties knows it is being recorded -or where its an employer (for training and quality purposes) - so it is not an unusual system by any means.

The difference here is that they have set the system up to "trap" the unwary -- ie payphones, Emails etc etc.

Why are they doing this? The answer is really very simple. Up until Bill Bowen , apostates were never really "organised" - and if they were then it was just isolated "sour grapes".

Now there are causes - Silentlambs, UN etc - and the power of the internet. They are not worried about JW.com per say - or indeed the high profile characters on there (Like you - they know many as an enemy)

They ARE worried about the unknown enemy within, the leaks, the undeclared disaffected, the secret Homosexuals. "everytime Bethel do something the Apostates know about it before us" said one DO I know in 2004. The leaks of the letters regarding Child Molestation (on both sides of the atlantic) sent shockwaves through the WT - and since then its got worse

For the first time the enemy (the apostates) are getting organised under one banner (child molestation) on an issue that the Society has condemmed the Churches for- and that scares the shit out of them - and its global - and its potentially expensive.

They therefore adopted a 4 fold policy - usual in corporate USA

1. deny everthing or "it was a mistake by one individual who has since been removed, we have undergone training to recitfy the situation and it was an isolated incident"

2. Keep our heads down and don't comment - eventually the enemy will run out of steam

3. Don't publicise their issues with our comment - everyone keep "on message"

4. Fight everything legally - the opposition will eventually run out of money - and we have deeper pocket than the enemy do. Win small victorys on the way, and make the most of them.

They are defending themselves in any and every way they can, but they must stop the leaks. Thats why they are paranoid. The leaks have slowed down now, but they are still vigilant

BTW if they identify an elder - or an elders houshold - as being a "potential leaker" then they alert the CO who, on his next visit makes a point of raising Fear, uncertainty and doubt about brother elders spirituality, record keeping, bible studies and then get them removed that way. That way he has been removed because of "His needing spiritual upbuilding" - but knock him down to an MS so he doesn't get hold of anything, and the WT still has control over him.

The issue here is that the watchers of the congregation, ones that keep the congregation in line - are being "corrupted by the apostates message" (never thinking that they have seen through the WT Bullshit) - so traditional watchtower systems are not always working, hence the need for extra vigilance to spot the enemy within

Hope that explains the situation a bit better

71

WT monitors sites?

by Gordy in

jw
friends

there was a post on the other day someone was asking about whether the wt monitors websites such as this and other "apostate" sites.. unfortunately i couldn't find it to add this to it.

i remembered a jw who worked on installing computers at london bethel, some time ago telling me that the wt did monitor websites.

this jw is gradually fading away from being one, so can't say to much about him.

Gordy

Is the technical information in the email common knowledge there? If this information is known to only a select few this thread could help them close in on him.

That could be true, but the person concerned no longer lives in this country. He is basically retired and now lives abroad.

Also it was maybe up to 2-3 years ago he worked at Bethel on the computers.

All I can say if the WT is that paranoid about "apostates" etc that they have to go to such lengths. Then there is something seriously wrong with them.