Posts by Chalam

30

I'm new!

by uhoh08 in

jw
friends

hi everyone.

this is my first entry but i just wanted to know if any of you been able to convince your friends to come out of the "truth" and realize the society for what it really is?

"144 001, 144 002, check canopy!"

Look up and the JWs will see the are free-falling without a parachute :(

Back to the question, I am hoping, praying and undoing the work of the WT. Will keep this forum posted of significant developments :)

Welcome BTW!

All the best,
Stephen

5

Apple Mac users-HELP!

by Chalam in

jw
friends

hi jwd mac users, .

any tips for me?

i am using safari on the mac and i have trouble editing posts, i have managed it once or twice within the 30 minutes time limit but normally it gives me trouble.

Chalam

Hi JWD Mac users,
Any tips for me?

I am using Safari on the Mac and I have trouble editing posts, I have managed it once or twice within the 30 minutes time limit but normally it gives me trouble.

Also, it would be great to be able to embed URL links so people can click directly on them and not have to copy and paste them from my posts.

Beyond that to add pictures and other cool stuff?

Thanks for your help in advance :)
Stephen

9

"Jehovah" is the english version

by B_Deserter in

have you ever seen this argument for using jehovah instead of the now-accepted yahweh?

on the surface, it makes sense, but unfortunately it's not a sound premise.. .

if we were to believe the bible, then god's original people were hebrews.

Chalam

Hi, Yes I agree. Which english version BTW? I have it about six times in the Old Testament I recall. I have LORD hundreds of times and as the preface explains, this is derived from YHWH or Yahweh, Jehovah is not in the New Testament at all. The only version that has it in the NT is the NWT which has substituted "kurios" and other greek words for Jehovah instead of Lord, God, Master etc. The big question is why have they done this? All the best, Stephen

261

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character...

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

...in all fiction:jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevent bully.

", says richard dawkins in the god delusion p51.

he goes on to say, "those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror".. would you agree?.

Chalam

Hi funkyderek,
Please see below.

"A little patronising, don't you think? In fact, it's usually the case that the more people study what's actually in the bible, the more they have trouble reconciling the barbaric monster Yahweh with a god of love."

I am sorry if that sentiment was conveyed, I certainly do not mean to patronise anyone, my apologies if that was received.
As I said, the more I have studied the Bible to more I find I do not have a problem with God in the OT and God in the NT. I believe that will only happen if you actually get to know Jesus.

"That's understandable. They are, after all, different books about essentially different gods. One is the Jewish god; the other is his Christian derivative."

No I believe they are the same, please see my post here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/151373/1.ashx

"The WTS love the God of the Old. That is why they choose the name of Jehovah. They like rules and regulations, judgement, wroth, anger etc.
That's what the god of the OT was all about. He's exactly as nasty as Dawkins' description."

As I explained, I also find love, compassion and kindness in there too.

"I love the God of the NT. His name is Jesus, and He is love, He is peace, He is just, He is true, He is righteous.
Well, partly. He still threatened eternal damnation to those who didn't "love" him."

Well if you want to view it in that way I agree, He is the same as the God in the OT. However, is did die on the cross for you. I can't say I would want to do that for anyone.

"God in the OT is concealed, in the NT He is revealed.
No, the OT is quite clear about God's character. But it was written by different people, at a different time, with a different language and different beliefs."

Well the point is that the OT point to the coming of Jesus. There are many references but they neither knew what Jesus would be when He arrived or really why He came. The NT reveals all that, read any of Paul's letters.

"Jesus is the same as Yahweh in the OT "I am the Father are one" so as you get to know about Him you will see that they are indeed the same but from a different viewpoint.
In a sense. Jesus is the Christian reinterpretation of the Jewish god YHWH. With the influence from Greek and Roman philosophies, the writers of the NT were a (slightly) more enlightened sort than those of the OT, and the god-man they invented reflected that."

No, Jesus was a Jew. Paul who was also a Jew said that the Jews should partake of the new covenant and live by the Holy Spirit, not the law.

"The God of love, peace, kindness, compassion can be found in the OT too.
Some examples, perhaps?"

Start here, there are many

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=compassion&x=0&y=0

"So my advise is this, if the OT is giving you trouble then read the NT!
You mean pick and choose which bits to believe in? Why believe any of it?"

No, I stated before I have no problem with reading or believing in any of the Bible now.

"So you are going to have to get to know Jesus before you can understand the Father.
Perhaps your god's triune nature is responsible for his schizophrenic personality."

Please see the other thread. The Trinity is many places in the Bible.

"My testimony is that I am doing this and I have no problems with reading the OY any more.
Good for you. But reading is (relatively) easy. Understanding it in a historical and cultural context can be a little more difficult. You don't seem to have managed that yet."

Is that necessary? The Bible doesn't say to become a historian, it says to have faith.

All the best,
Stephen

14

Who is the Alpha and the Omega in the Bible? The First and the Last?

by Chalam in

jw
friends

rev 1:8 i am the al pha and the ome ga, says jehovah god, the one who is and who was and who is coming, the almighty.

rev 21:5 and the one seated on the throne said: look!

i am the al pha and the ome ga, the beginning and the end.

Chalam

Hi all,
Was just reading the New World Translation Unholy Scriptures and posted this in another thread but I think it is worth a thread of its own :) See if you agree.

OK the term 'Alpha and Omega' appears three times in the bible. Revelation 1:8, 21:6 and 22:13. I will use the NWT to highlight their own error.

Rev 1:8 “I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

"Yes Jehovah is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, praise his holy name" the JW cries.

Rev 21:5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” 6 And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the beginning and the end.

"Yes Jehovah is seated on the throne, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, as I said before, amen!" the JW retorts.

Rev 22:12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. 13 I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’
16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”
17 And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.
18 “I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.
20 “He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’”
“Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”

So who is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end, and coming quickly? Jesus, the text says in the NWT says it clearly.

Jesus is seated on the throne, Jesus and the Father are one,

NTW John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”

Jesus created all things (i.e. not Himself)

NWT John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

etc. etc. etc.

As the NWT puts it

John 12:44 However, Jesus cried out and said: “He that puts faith in me puts faith, not in me [only], but in him [also] that sent me;

So where is your faith?

All the best,
Stephen

30

I don't like using Jehovahs' name anymore

by LouBelle in

jw
friends

i must say the more and more i learn and find my way around my spirituallity the less i use the name jehovah.

it just reminds me of everything i went through, reminds me of the ""bad"" and not the good of god.

it reminds me of hypocracy and mind control.

Chalam

Hi wildfell,
Glad you enjoyed Galatians 5 :)

Did you managed to try Isaiah 53 and 55?

If so try here too, same deal

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=21&version=31

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=22&version=31

Notice that Jesus says He is the Alpha and the Omega, same as the Father in Revelation 1:8

Even the NWT agrees!

Rev 1:8 “I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

Rev 22:12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. 13 I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’
16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”

I expect no-one is discussing this kind of teaching in the 'Kingdom Halls' :(

OK main question is have you R.S.V.P. to your invitation? You gotta let the host know you want to be at the party!

All the best,
Stephen

23

I think I just became an unbaptized bible study student apostate

by AddaGirl in

jw
friends

i had some major questions regarding 607 bce which directly affect the doctrine of 1914. my teacher, admitting being weak on history, could not answer my questions.

i started researching and found that the appropriate dates for the "seventy years" were appearing to be 609 bce to 539 bce, the ruling period of babylon.

this meant that everything i was being taught based on 1914 was in effect, a lie.

Chalam

Hi AddaGirl,
Welcome!

Stick around and you will find there are much bigger questions about the faith of a JW too :)

Have a look here from someone who was at the top and found many big contradictions with life as a JW and that of a biblical Christian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc5u2EkD-7E

(Please copy and paste the link in your browser)

All the best,
Stephen

8

2 minute Video called "The God Who Wasn't There"

by skyking in

very thought provoking.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kubqguclxzk.

Chalam

"... it's all about Jesus man, that's all you gotta pay attention to!"

Amen! He looks quite happy about it too :)

All the best,
Stephen

75

If You Were Wrong About The JWs, Maybe Your Current Beliefs Aren't True

by serotonin_wraith in

if you're here, it's likely you were once fooled by what the jws believe.. back then, i expect you thought you were smart.

you thought you could tell if you were being lied to.

yet, they got past your mental defenses and sucked you in.. knowing this, how can you be sure your current religious beliefs are true?.

Chalam

Hi serotonin_wraith,
Thanks for your replies. I think you have though a lot about many of these issues before, probably a lot more than I have with some of them. So I will try and answer briefly.

"The consciousness of computers- I don't think they're 'dumb' for a start, just try playing chess against one! I think the idea of a soul is a tricky one. Breaking it down, our consciousness may just be electrical signals within the brain, making sense of the universe through our five senses, or 'filters'. We can't see or hear as well as some animals, yet our limited senses give us a representation of reality we feel comfortable with. But there is more we cannot sense at present. We don't have the complete picture at all. I was watching a program on dolphins earlier, they experience the world through sound mostly. Are they wrong? No. Are they seeing true reality? No, and neither are we. I don't think any animal has evolved to the point where it can sense all the wavelengths of light, all the sound waves, and so on. So knowing who 'we' are is difficult to determine. We are somewhat limited."

I agree, a chess program can beat us all at chess and even now it is beating the world chess champions, but would you want a computer to make the simplest of decisions for you? Answer is most likely no, you feel you have more wisdom than the most 'clever' computer on earth. I believe that is because we are made in God's image, but my PC or a dolphin isn't.

"An atheist is free to think what they want about 'spirituality', the soul, consciousness, etc. These things may exist without a god. After watching plenty of shows on androids and robots and holograms, I have the same questions too. But thinking Jesus died for my sins isn't going to solve them. They will be solved with evidence, not feelings."

I agree about the possibility of spirituality existing without the existence of a god. However, my own conclusion is that the two are linked and thus the verse 'God is spirit' is no coincidence.

"You say you cannot grasp the concept of infinity. You apply that characteristic to your god easily enough. I don't think it's too hard to grasp. Think of the biggest number you can, then keep adding to it. It goes on and on, and when you think it's gotten quite long, just keep going. There's no reason to stop."

I agree, but can I 'quantify' it beyond that? Every time I consider 'what came before the beginning' my only answer can be God. You could answer, 'something else' but what came before that? 'Infinity' I hear you answer! Well God is infinite ;)

"You say you cannot explain the 'spiritual' realm. You are limited by your physical make up, as I am. And yet you try to explain the spiritual realm, and you say that you know there is a god, and that you know which god is real. It baffles me, because if you 'cannot explain the spiritual realm', what are doing trying to explain the spiritual realm?"

I believe I am a spiritual being. I believe I have a soul and a spirit. I cannot see physically this aspect to myself or anyone else because it is part of the 'unseen' in those verses. HOwever, I feel it is there and I feel when it is not there when someone dies and I look at their body.

"With faith? You don't use this kind of faith for anything else in life. You couldn't rely on faith to believe in Thor - you dismiss that god without blinking. But faith in Yahweh becomes a virtue for you. The god is different, but the same thing you think is ridiculous in one instance is seen as a good thing just a few sentences later."

I use faith increasingly in everything I do in life. I pray about all things, even the small ones because I believe God is for me, not against me. That is not to say that I use faith to pick an object up or get out of bed but I exercise faith in increasingly in all situations.

"If there is anything after death, why does a god have to be involved? It may be completely natural, it may be aliens uploading our souls into their computers, it could be lots of things. Nobody knows. You're saying you do know, and I think you're wrong to be so sure of yourself. It's late here, but I'll watch that video in the next day or two. Thanks."

I agree, same thoughts as the earlier question in this thread, you could be right but then so could I. Neither of us will know the answer until we die. I believe there is no second chance (re-incarnation etc.) so I urge people to be 100% happy with their answer before they take the plunge, which could come at any time for any of us. Forget Armageddon, death is the thing to fear but I have lost any fear of that!

OK last question, do you believe in aliens? I might as well answer if for you because logic says there are only four answers.

1. Yes, but I haven't seen them. Well you believe in something you haven't seen so God might exist too.

2. Yes, I have seen them! Well I assume you didn't seen them the day you were born so one day God might appear too.

3. No, but they could exist. Well you haven't seen them but you agree they could exist and in similar fashion God too.

4. No, I know they don't exist. Well how? Have you been to every corner of the universe at the same time? Or out side of it (if that exists)?

For me, atheism is a tough faith to defend, there are too many unknowns. Sure, I am defending something I cannot see but I believe I have circumstantial evidence to back up my case. Every time I meet with born again Christians I see it this evidence. Jesus said this

John 14:11 (New International Version)
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

So have a root around. Get in a church that believes and uses the gifts of the Holy Spirit and then decide if you have the same opinion before you shut the door.

All the best,
Stephen

30

Why I love music, you can find a song for any situation, here is mine now

by wanderlustguy in

jw
friends

if you don't know of one for you, try to describe the way you feel and someone might know of one for that.

it defintiely helps me to play music when i am not doing so well.. chris cornell.

ghosts.

Chalam

No joy editing on this occasion, still 19 minutes grace remaining!

My Mac doesn't seem to like the JWDF, bit like the WTS I suppose ;)

Maybe I need to start a thread for Apple users to glean some tips?

Stephen