Posts by Chalam

226

The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman in

is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?

many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.

but this dishonors gods word.

tec As for Sodom and Gomorah, if they serve as an example, then eternal fire would mean eternal and complete destruction, would it not? Not ongoing punishment, except that they are always going to be dead?

tammy

I think the NIV puts it well.

Jude 1:7 (New International Version)

7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

The fire of the second death is eternal as is the punishment. The literalness of the fire is as literal as it was at Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus makes it clear many times Matthew 25:46, Mark 9:48, Luke 16:23, Revelation 14:10-12, Revelation 20:10

Annihilationism is just another lie from the pit as taught by the WT.

Blessings,

Stephen

226

The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman in

is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?

many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.

but this dishonors gods word.

Chalam

I disagree, verse 7 is loud and clear. Try it in the ESV

Jude 1:7 (English Standard Version)

7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

The fire has long gone out at Sodom and Gomorrah. However, the verse says they serve as an example of the eternalfire i.e. the second death.

Revelation 20:10-15 (New International Version)

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Dead Are Judged

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Blessings, Stephen

226

The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman in

is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?

many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.

but this dishonors gods word.

Chalam

tec You must not believe that 99% of the world is going there then, as some fundies do. Certainly someone in a place who has never had the chance to learn about or truly accept Christ (considering the name many Christians have given Him), isn't necessarily a lover of evil.

Tammy, see what Bob Jones has to say regarding this issue.

Bob Jones died- God sent him back from heaven's door- 1

Bob Jones died- God sent him back from heaven's door- 2

Bob Jones died- God sent him back from heaven's door- 3

Blessings in Christ,

Stephen

226

The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman in

is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?

many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.

but this dishonors gods word.

Chalam

Welcome aqwsed12345!

BurnTheShips DD, Chalam, PSac, and I may quibble about the details, but we all believe the Christian doctrine of Hell.

There is a Hell, and it is horrible beyond words.

There is no sugar coating that. The metaphors of a burning fire in Scripture are just metaphors

Agreed, save the metaphor. Was the fire at Sodom and Gomorrah literal or just symbolic?

Jude 1:7 (New International Version)

7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

I would recommend this to all.

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 1 of 7

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 2 of 7

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 3 of 7

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 4 of 7

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 5 of 7

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 6 of 7

A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion Part 7 of 7

Blessings,

Stephen

43

My Story

by kp138 in

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Chalam

Welcome aboard kp138!

Thanks for sharing your story.

Blessings,

Stephen

21

Any ex-JW's going to a different church? If so, which one?

by 1Robinella in

jw
friends

since i've been out of the jw religion, i've had no desire to attend any churches.

although i've always liked the way many churches look with the (stained glass, etc).

growing up our kh was so ugly and boring to look at.

Chalam

Welcome serein and Awen!

i dint even think catholics did that kind of thing.

Not all Catholics are apposed to the work of the Holy Spirit. In fact there are large groups of them that operate in the gifts.

Armed with the knowledge I have now and what the GB actually is (the evil slave)

This says it all 1 Timothy 4

Blessings,

Stephen

21

Why did we all take the NWT at face value?

by sabastious in

why didn't we ever care about checking whether or not the nwt was "the most reliable bible on the planet.

" such an audacious claim and it didn't spark much investigations.. (not saying no one did check it, just seems the vast majority never did, at least not for a long time).. so here we all were, with this unverified and propietary bible using it as the word of god to teach about the meaning of life?.

-sab.

Chalam

I always found the NWT to be clunky and confusing. The language just didn't seem to flow.

That is the way it is designed. The WT don't want one's understanding to come from the bible but rather their own publications.

Blessings,

Stephen

54

According to fundi Christians, where did people go when they died pre-ransom?

by sabastious in

before jesus offered the ransom, where did people go when they died?.

-sab.

Chalam

Chalam, I've read the passage, it does not say they got to heaven pre-sacrifice.

Agreed but neither does it say they didn't!

Where else does the bible say they went? (Those who answer "Sheol" or "the grave" deduct one point!)

In fact, you could take it the other way.

Understood.

However, Paul says to be away from the body is to be at home with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8

Who is "the Lord"? Romans 10:9

Where is He? Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 8:1, Hebrews 10:12, Hebrews 12:2

Where is the thief? Luke 23:43

Where is paradise? 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 , Revelation 2:7

For New Testament believers who die, the bible is clear. For the OT believers, we have the issue of Christ entering heaven first as you pointed out. Maybe they went someone to wait for Christ to die first or maybe in eternity, outside of time it doesn't matter as time has no meaning and Christ had already been humbled, born, died, resurrected and glorified?! Either way, we who believe end up in the same place in the same glorified type of body.

These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Did they not receive what was promised before their deaths or directly after?

For sure, they need to receive the (perfect) resurrection body, as we all do. Also, together with us we will be the perfect bride of Christ, the perfect living temple 1 Corinthians 13:10

Jesus is the first fruits of the dead to go to heaven. The texts I cited earlier show this.

Understood. We are back to the issue of where did the OT "heroes of faith" go? Where were the "cloud of witnesses" before Christ's resurrection? Where are they now I think it far clearer.

Blessings,

Stephen

21

Why did we all take the NWT at face value?

by sabastious in

why didn't we ever care about checking whether or not the nwt was "the most reliable bible on the planet.

" such an audacious claim and it didn't spark much investigations.. (not saying no one did check it, just seems the vast majority never did, at least not for a long time).. so here we all were, with this unverified and propietary bible using it as the word of god to teach about the meaning of life?.

-sab.

Chalam

If one repeats a phrase often enough, one can soon deceive others, even oneself.

""the most reliable Bible on the planet.""

Blessings,

Stephen

41

New Watchtower Quotes : Feel the Love and Anger and Deception

by brotherdan in

from the january 2011 kool aid edition wt:.

paragraph 8: "still, as a people,the chosen ones and their loyal companions will physically survive the end of apostate christendom by taking refuge in jehovah and his mountainlike organization.".

paragraph 9: "christendom deserves the coming destruction for contributing to the spiritual illiteracy common among churchgoers and for its manifest hatred of gods name.".

Chalam

I was thinking the same thing, brotherdan take note how much junk food you eat ;)

brotherdan I never said Jesus name was above the Father. I personally feel that the divine name in the OT is referring to the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit.

An interesting point.

If this is so we should baptise in the name of "Yahweh" or indeed JW's favourite, "Jehovah".

As it is, the other scriptures say to baptise in the name of "Jesus" Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5

Maybe His name is synonymous with the Father and Spirit?

I

ndeed, it is ;) Romans 8:9, Galatians 4:6, Romans 8:15, John 14, John 10:30 etc.

Blessings in Christ,

Stephen