my husband and i will be partaking at home this year.
could you please share your experiences or insights on how you partook at home?
i have the wine and bread sorted.
To the lovely atheists, gnostics and christians on this thread who tried to moderate the situation; who supported me or came to my defense . . . I thank you with appreciation.
I will definately be partaking this year, really appreciate everyone's input.
my husband and i will be partaking at home this year.
could you please share your experiences or insights on how you partook at home?
i have the wine and bread sorted.
I mean all of us who got 'out' are supposed to be free of all this ritualistic crap... but if you need to do something.. do something more ancient.. like dance naked around a bonfire and chant and intoxicate yourself with fermented brews , peyote and mushrooms.. after all they are more REAl than any of the stuff mentioned here..
Lou-Cypher, observing the Lord Jesus sacrificial death is NOT "ritualistic crap" to me. Nor to other sincere Christians who post on this forum. I worship the God of the Bible. I was a Christian before I was introduced to jw's. I remain a Christian. Unlike you, obviously. I don't know who you worship, but I do not understand why you bothered replying to my enquiry. We obviously do not worship the same God.
If you think that dancing like a drunk and drugged savage (maybe like your ancestors did) is appealing, then feel free. I do not share your view that being off one's face, ignorant and naked and wild is "REAL"; that is your choice. It does not appeal to me. Nor should it to any true Christian, ex jw or not.
With all due respect...
No, I don't think you showed me "due respect". Or more importantly, Christ himself.
If you did have any respect, you would have refrained from posting on this topic.
i'm not completely sold on these verses at acts 15:19,20,28,29 meaning it was just to keep harmony with jews and gentiles.
i can see that meaning in those verses but also another one.
to me that can mean that they arent going to add circumcision to the list of burdens or necessary things and those things listed in v29 are burdens not simply some things to keep harmony.
Some great points made on this thread. I can share what convinced me that the blood transfusion thing was not a requirement by God. (sorry if some points already covered in other posts).
Number 1: I realised that:
JEHOVAHS WITNESSES DO NOT ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD!!!!!!!!
Because
THEY CAN AND WILL TAKE A TRANSFUSION OF "ALLOWED" BLOOD FRACTIONS/COMPONENTS, ETC. It logically follows that they therefore do NOT obey the command at Acts 15. The organisation is being very hypocritical here. They expect you to die for their interpretations. First you couldn't take any blood. Then you could take some parts of the blood. Then they changed it so that you could take more parts of the blood. Or is God confused? Is that why he didn't communicate clearly with his chosen chanel of communication? Oh, that's right, it's "new light." Ahgain.
Number 2:
Here's reasoning you will never see in a watchtower: Lev 17:15-16 makes the point that if you find something dead and you eat from it, (eating blood) the result will be that God will view you as ceremonially unclean. You must bathe and become clean. That's it. You will not be dragged out and stoned. In fact, although there is an account of someone stoned for not observing the sabbath, there is NO account of stoning for eating blood. As other posters pointed out, you can even sell an unbled animal to foreigners and profit from it, with God's blessing. So, it made me wonder how important "no transfusions" were to God? Did he really expect me to give up my life by not having blood if all the punishment jews got was to become ceremonially unclean or a few more dracmas to spend at the local inn drinking with the boys?
Number 2:
Acts 15:28,29 is a re-take on Lev 17. If it is a re-take on God's requirements, then it is also a re-take on the punishment. As per above para, that means being ceremonially unclean. Go wash your garments and get back in with God's favor.
Number 3:
The other thing is that pouring blood out when an animal was killed was only to acknowledge that the animals life came from God. It was not because there was anything special about the blood itself. When people donate blood, it does not result in their death. Therefore, logically, their blood is not required to be poured out, is it? Ah, you may say, but blood is not to be stored. Well, jw's will have an 'allowed' transfusion of blood fractions. How do those blood fractions end up in the drip attached to the jw's arm? They are collected from hundreds of people and then stored. If it is not to be "eaten", then consider that jw's can now have organ transplants. The society once described that as "eating" and as "cannabalism". Now it's ok. You can have the whole organ, not just a fraction of it. Unlike blood.
In Crisis of Conscience, page 297, the author discusses how blood is a symbol of life. He asks the question "how the symbol could be of greater value than the reality it symbolises"?
I recommend you read the chapter on Blood and Life, Law and Love, in Crisis of Conscience. Please find below the entire chapter in the following link. I find it to be very intelligently and reasonably expressed.
Also, please find below another excellent article on the blood doctrine.
http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/blooddoctrine.htm
So, this is a bit on why I came to tear up my blood card. Thanks for your patience, I know it was a bit long, but I was once willing to die for this crap.
kind regards
wildfell
my husband and i will be partaking at home this year.
could you please share your experiences or insights on how you partook at home?
i have the wine and bread sorted.
Hi takethat, I feel really touched by the beautiful way you marked the memorial. Simple and dignified, the way it was meant to be. Jesus' favourite place to go to pray was also a garden, wasn't it? And Adam and Eve were married by God in a garden. So what better place than a garden to remember Christ's sacrifice and partake of the break and wine! I have also often gone to beautiful gardens to pray. For some reason, when I am surounded by the beauty of nature I feel closer to God.
I agree with the point you made to partake as often as we wish. I am looking forward to our private memorial evening, but wondering whether it will feel strange for me too? I think it definately will for my husband. But I know it will feel good that we will be obeying Christ.
WTWizard, I have seen first-hand how they wield the whole "unworthy" thing. They have also written in the watchtower that some partake because of mental health issues, not because they are actually called by God! How rude is that?! The other thing they warn against is that people who partake "unworthily" will be eating and drinking to their death. Scare tactics and insinuating mental illness. . . I believe that is how they will try and keep the numbers of partakers at their memorials down, even with the 1935 thing lifted. Just doing what they have always done.
kind regards
wildfell
my husband and i will be partaking at home this year.
could you please share your experiences or insights on how you partook at home?
i have the wine and bread sorted.
Thanks guys for your responses.
Tula and Finally-Free, I couldn't agree more that in the org, Jesus is trumped by the FDS. It became a huge bug-bear of mine that I couldn't ignore in the end. Also, that Jesus did say that everyone who wants salvation HAS to partake. He didn't lay down any more requirements. The society is denying people salvation by not allowing them to partake, in my opinion.
Lo-ru-hamah, I read your post to my hubby and he thinks that sounds great. Also, even you girls contributed? How radical!! lol We will integrate some of those things into our memorial evening for sure.
BabaYaga and keyser soze thanks for the suggestions. The beer and pizza sounds good for after!
kind regards
wildfell
my husband and i will be partaking at home this year.
could you please share your experiences or insights on how you partook at home?
i have the wine and bread sorted.
My husband and I will be partaking at home this year. Could you please share your experiences or insights on how you partook at home? I have the wine and bread sorted. Just wondering how you went about it? I thought I would get some beautiful christian songs, light a few candles and get some frankinscence aromatherapy oil (they use this in some church services) just to create a respectful atmosphere. I last had communion in my early teens so can't even really remember how it was done in Church. This will be the first time ever partaking for my spouse who was born in.
Also, it is my opinion that partaking only once a year is a jw-ism. My husband is still considering this. I figure that millions of Christians over 2000 years can't have been wrong in partaking of the bread and wine every week at mass? In addition, Jesus did not give strict rules on how often this should be done. Would appreciate any thoughts on this please. Thanks in anticipation.
i knew, and i am beginning to think i was right.
several shrinks and therapists later, and i realize that my entire life structure is not only gone, but it was a farce in the first place.
how do you cope with that?
I realize that my entire life structure is not only gone, but it was a farce in the first place. How do you cope with that? 40 some years and you dont have any real friends? they almost all shun you? and technically you are still a brother?
Hi oompa, did you know that about 1 million jw's have left in the last 5 years or so? That makes 1 million of us that have asked those same questions, found themselves friendless and family-less.
"Almost 1 million people are unaccounted for every five years, almost two thirds of the number baptised."
http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/statistics.htm
Take heart that you're not alone. Give yourself time to find your feet. Grief does lessen and fade. Hang on to that thought. What you are going through is not forever. I personally went through a long while where I thought I would never be happy again. This forum aided me enormously because I saw that others had not only survived but had thrived. You can too!! There is life after jehovah's witnesses!!!!
We are cult survivors, we will always bear the scars of what we have gone through. Scars can fade whether they be physical or emotional.
In the meantime, dawg and outlaw among others, have got some great advice for you, man to man, like. (loved your advice, guys!)
another central difference in the beliefs of jws and most christians.
the wt teaches that the holy spirit is "god's active force" and certainly not a person or part of the trinity (which they say doesn't exist).
as the holy spirit is fundamental to understanding godly things (including the whole of the bible) then we should really have an understanding about god's spirit if we want to understand the bible.
So it is quite clear that the Spirit is a He and a person (whom).
Re the statement above. There is another explanation about why the spirit is referred to as a 'He'. (Please see the first link below to read the full article).
At John 16:7 Jesus said: “It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor [or “Helper, “Comforter”] will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you.” In the various references to the holy Spirit as a “helper” or “comforter” and in most translations the pronouns “he” and “him” are used in the gospel account But the Greek term for “helper” or “comforter” (paraclete) is in the masculine gender and any reference to it by a pronoun has to be in the masculine gender. (Just as in Spanish where, for example, pencil (lapiz) is masculine and always takes the masculine pronoun él, even as “table” (mesa) is feminine and takes the feminine pronoun ella.) By contrast, the Greek term for “spirit” (pneuma) is neuter and always takes a neuter pronoun, even when reference is to the holy Spirit.
and
And it is clear that that style of speaking, of personifying, was as true in the time of the writing of the Christian Scriptures as it was in the time of the writing of the Hebrew Scriptures. Thus we read at Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35 that “wisdom is vindicated by her deeds,” is “vindicated by all her children,” essentially the same type of language as found in Proverbs. Trinitarians make much of texts of the holy Spirit speaking and seem to ignore that, not only the Spirit, but blood and water are spoken of as testifying and agreeing together. (1 John 5:6, 7) At Romans 10:6 it states that “the righteousness that comes from faith says,” and righteousness is not a person. That is why even the Catholic Dictionary says of the texts so often referred to as demonstrating the personality of the holy Spirit:
Most of these places furnish no cogent proof of personality.… We must not forget that the NT personifies mere attributes such as love (1 Cor. xiii:4), and sin (Rom. vii. 11), nay, even abstract and lifeless things, such as the law (Rom. iii.19), the water and the blood (1 Jn. v.8). Since the Scriptures themselves present no detailed definition, we cannot pretend to know precisely in such areas. It does seem evident that having God’s spirit means not merely having some invisible power energize one, but results from the extent to which one comes to be in harmony with Him, to think and to feel as He does about matters, to have His outlook and feel moved to act in harmony with His own motivation or whatever term can be used to describe the driving force behind His actions and the carrying out of His will. (Compare Paul’s expressions at 1 Corinthians 5:3, 4; and 2 Corinthians 11:4.) That “motivation” is primarily love, which moved God to give his Son on our behalf, and which is the first element of the “fruitage” of God’s Spirit as described at Galatians 5:22. It seems clear that it is not merely power or force that produces that fruitage of love, joy, patience and similar qualities. It is more the influence of what God is and of our coming to know and love him for what He is.
http://www.commentarypress.net/cpn-essays/English/DD56E706-65C1-4DDF-95E2-40E8FB1B7708.html
I researched the Greek in John 16:7 - the link below will show a comparison between the Greek and English, as well as give a word for word translation of the Greek.
hey guys, just thought i would post.. i try not to let it get to me, but i'm soo sad right now b/c i can't believe my own family won't talk to me b/c i am not a witness!!
i was always there for them, was the daughter, friend, sister etc.
they needed me to be and now - nothing.
Your family do and will care, they believe this is the greatest act of unselfish love they can offer you
Insightful and wise words, those.
I just wanted to say that I am so sorry for your situation and the hurt you are experiencing. And I wanted to reassure you that in all likelihood, your family do miss you. They would be thinking of you regularly and be feeling hurt too. But they are trapped and manipulated in a cult that practices mind control.
Their behaviour is not a reflection of how they feel about you, but a reflection of how deeply controlled they are by the organisation.
Shunning those who leave is very cruel. It is equally cruel to be made to shun your family and friends. It's a two edged sword that cuts both ways. Love can't be cut off, even if contact can.
Just because your family are forced to shun you doesn't mean they don't love you. It could be killing them too, they could be having down days missing you too. Maybe one day the situation will change and they will come and ask for forgiveness. But in the meantime, as someone posting here said, remember that your heavenly Father will always be there for you.
All the best to you
wildfell
yep, there's no excuse for any of you lot.. if a sister of 106 can auxiliary pioneer last memorial season, so can you.. this ancedote was in the jan km - puke making - what the heck was a 106 year old doing going from door to door, and i mean this literally, not just phone witnessing.. have these people got no sense?
i mean 106 years old and making 50 hours a month - for what?.
if anyone here has the us km, please upload it here as i don't have a scanner..
Thanks blondie for posting that awake article. That poor lady's life was even more horrible than I remembered. Fancy using her suffering to their own ends like that. The wt society just knows no shame!
