Posts by hamilcarr

100

Moral Values of an Atheist

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

some thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?

it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .

hamilcarr

Hi again Zico,

I can't see where a Christian would disagree with you on your definition on good, so I can't see the basis for any claim to be 'higher' than another. and where do you think YOU learned the Golden rule from?

Neither would a Muslim. But there's always a huge gap between between theory and practice. The verse after the Golden Rule (Mtt 7), for instance, mentions a broad way leading to destruction. Most christians I've met have a very dualistic view on reality indeed, like good things are really good and bad things are bad.

I didn't learn the golden rule from a book, I learnt it through practice and education.

I'd never claim to be higher than anyone else, but I think it's possible to claim someone's values are higher or lower than average. When you start claiming that some groups are worthless (cf. real one), your moral values obviously are inferior.

Kind regards,

H.

100

Moral Values of an Atheist

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

some thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?

it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .

hamilcarr

Hi Zico,

too have had the pleasure of meeting some wonderful atheists and their are many on this board. I've also met some wonderful christians and again, their are many on this board. I'm curious, how much experience have you had with Christianity outside of the walls of the Watchtower? Even if you accept Jehovah's Witnesses as a Christian denomination, they're certainly a minor one among a very diverse group of people.

Sure, JW are only a small part of the Christian story. To answer your question, I've had lots of experience with Christianity outside of the Watchtower walls. I'm born and raised in a secular European RC country and due to the international character of Brussels, the city where I'm living at the moment, I've enjoyed long discussions with American orthodox christians, Mormon missionaries, Anglican peers, Catholic nuns and many born-agains (mostly pentecostals). I count among my close friends two devout Muslims. I highly appreciate all of these acquaintances, most of them are lovely and tolerant people with an above-average intelligence, like some of the JW I know.

26

2008

by jefferywhat in

i have noticed, and posted a little bit about all the buzz surrounding this year.

there is a little bit of a whisper campaign going around that armageddon is coming this year.

from other posts i notice im not the only one who is seeing this, there is alot of "reminders" that we need to be obedient and trusting of the fds ( which i am of course), along with reminders to stock up and prepare for disasters etc they are really pointing to something.

hamilcarr

2008 is the Year of the Rat. And you all know what's gonna happen to those dirty rats! Rats!

100

Moral Values of an Atheist

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

some thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?

it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .

hamilcarr

Real One, you keep on surprising me! You are giving another argument in favor of my thesis that believers have a poorer moral sense than atheists. Anyone who calls another group worthless, heartless and cruel has an immature conscience. I can only quote Jesus' words: 'Forgive them, for they know not what they do'.

23

Have You Ever Heard of an Atheist Being Visited by a Demon?

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

........ because i haven't.

hamilcarr

........ because I haven't

100

Moral Values of an Atheist

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

some thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?

it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .

hamilcarr

Just ask your priest Father Dawkins

This is an appalling argument! Sheer nonsense! What are his qualifications for being called 'father' according to the 'atheist church'? What's up nxt? Are you gonna claim atheists are being governed by an infallible pope and a college of cardinals? You are really ridiculing yourself by giving such arguments.

100

Moral Values of an Atheist

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

some thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?

it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .

hamilcarr

Hi Zico,

My definition of good? I agree with you on the importance of the golden rule, i think it's a very useful source of inspiration. I notice you like to emphasize the Judeo-Christian nature of this rule, but I'm afraid this may be incorrect. The oldest 'European' versions of the rule are from Greek origin (quotes from Wikipedia, where you can find the exact sources):

The Golden Rule was a common principle in ancient Greek philosophy. A few examples:

"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him." (Pittacus [1] )

"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." (Thales [2] )

"What you wish your neighbors to be to you, such be also to them." (Pythagorean)

"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others." (Isocrates [3] )

"What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." (Epictetus [4] )

I was taught that evolution --- natural selection --- does not operate on individuals, but on populations (or communities), i.e. not the mutation itself = evolution, but the spread. This means that there are no evolutionary advantages involved in egocentric behavior. What we observe throughout human history is the broadening of the community we apply the golden rule to (from our family to our tribe to our nation/religion to all men to all animals). If we cherish the lifes of all individuals no matter their religious affiliations, their sexual inclinations, their political views, etc. we are 'good'. I started this thread because I had observed that while christians claim they are the protectors of ethics their 'love thy neighbor' is less universal than atheists'.

H.

100

Moral Values of an Atheist

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

some thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?

it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .

hamilcarr

A thread spirals into meaninglessness and frustration every time Hitler is brought into it, DD.

I totally agree Gopher!

This is another persistent misunderstanding with regards to atheism. Because many people associate communism with atheism, it has only recently become known that Stalin was a pious man. He secretly prayed in an underground Russian-orthodox chapel --- DAILY! Now, if there's one thing uniting atheists it's that they do NOT pray in a chapel!

So, what about Hitler? As an Austrian, he was born and raised a catholic but probably left the church. Does it imply he became an atheist? Not at all! He got involved in occultism and thoroughly intrigued by Germanic pagan gods.

Conclusion: Both Stalin and Hitler rejected organized religion because it interfered with their own power, but they never denied the existence of (a) higher being(s). Since that is the very definition of theism, they cannot be called atheists.

40

Seeking God

by Satanus in

after practically a lifetime of searching for god, is it my fault that he didn't show?

i have always tended to get to the bottom of things.

my goal has mostly been to understand the whys and hows.

hamilcarr

Getting to know God through creation --- isn't that pantheism?

10

Are We Living in Critical Times?

by hamilcarr in

in this video steven pinker presents a brief history of violence showing evidence that violence has been in decline for long stretches of time and that today we're probably living in the most peaceful time in our species' existence: critical times refuted and modernity defended!.

.

hamilcarr

If Jesus didnt say it its a lie!

When did Jesus say we are living in critical times right now anno 2008? These are doctrines of men, not of Jesus.

I didnt even watch the video all the way cause i know a lie when i hear one.

This is a very narrow view you know. It's very important you get informed about our age because we get overwhelmed with deceitful information. Pinker's thesis was well-founded, he's a well-respected linguist who did a lot of great research in his domain.