gravedancer

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Posts by gravedancer

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  101

  What happened to politeness?

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  twice in the past week, from two different posters, i have been called an "asshole.

  " in both cases, the person made an assumption about me based on something that was said in a thread.

  in both cases, i responded by saying i disagreed with their characterization and explained why.

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  gravedancer

  When will this childish shit stop?

  Bunch of fucking babies!!!!!
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  Actually Perry and 5 Gospels although I have been ripping you a little I respect your intelligence.

  I have to run but will be back later to edit this post and respond to you both.

  l8r
  gd
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  Perry,

  You quote me - but only half quote me.

  gravedancer said:

  That is why I answer that anyone who puts their life on hold or lives for some belief system (instead of themselves) is unbalanced mentally.

  Ok - the first phrase "that is". Do you understand that it is a conclusion based on prior logic. If you want to quote it surely you should quote the prior logic too?

  Some might recognize the flavor of my conclusion as having a basis in the works of Ayn Rand and the virtue of selfishness. A summary can be found at http://www.angelfire.com/ri/tucker/relativism/morality26.html

  Perhaps you might consider the following examples (please note just a sampling not the complete set) of "putting ones life on hold" or making spiritual excuses:

  - don't get a worldly education it will be no good after Armageddon
  - don't pursue riches as the will throw their money in the streets in the last days
  - keep on seeking first the kingdom
  - do not be anxious over anything
  - the Lord will provide
  - it is sufficient to have just sustenance and covering
  - bodily devotion is beneficial for a little (don't play too much sport)
  - bad associations spoil useful habits
  - keep buying out the time for spiritual interests
  - the Lord took him
  - it is god's will
  - "a servant of god"
  - tithing
  - guilty conscience over personal sin that did not affect others
  - fear not those who kill the body....
  - don't take blood to preserve THIS life...
  - I will go to heaven when I die
  - if you are bad you will go to hell
  - it's bad karma to do xxxx

  I could go on for pages and pages. While much of this has a "JW flavor" many examples crossover into many other religious creeds and belief systems or the other belief systems have their own set.

  Sure people are free to believe what they like (after they get permission from 5 gospels of course ) and anyone else is free to think about them, reason on their beliefs and express opinions about their beliefs.

  Just because some people want to pervert religion, govt. or ethics doesn't mean we have to abandon to entire concept of standards; which for many are embodied in Karma, Jesus, or Buddah.

  Are there good standards in some of the works of cited? Of course. Do you base your life on them and make sacrifices based on them? That's up to you.
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  Unless 5 Gospels agrees to it please do not use the term "insanity".

  5 gospels has to give permission to change the meaning or clarify it.

  Please be sure to bow down to 5 gospels when you humbly ask to be allowed to use the term "insanity". It is "mental illness" being discussed here - not "insanity".

  Thou shalt not REDEFINE the phrase!!!!
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  Five Gospels,
  

  Nice try but I won't allow you to redefine your terms

  I dont recall needing you permission to do anything in life. what you want me to fill out the forms in triplicate if I want to say something?

  In fact let's not redefine the terms then. Let's DEFINE them.

  Five Gospels - what is mental illness? How about we try this definition? See if you agree with it:

  What is mental illness?

  Mental illnesses are severe disturbances of behavior, mood, thought processes and/or social and interpersonal relationships. There are many different types of mental illnesses. Some of the most common types are:

  Personality Disorders. These are long-term problems in adjustment. There a number of different subtypes. These individuals might be described by one or more of the following: emotionally needy, inappropriately seeking attention, nonassertive, always getting into fights or trouble, volatile, unstable, or having a problem with anger.

  Affective Disorders. These are disturbances in mood, usually indicated by profound sadness and noticeable changes in eating, sleeping and energy levels. Sometimes a disorder is indicated by sudden bursts of euphoria.

  Anxiety Disorders. These are indicated by the presence of excessive fears, frequent complaints of bodily ailments (headaches, stomachaches, dizziness), and excessive nervousness lasting for weeks. These include panic disorder, excessive fears, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

  Psychotic Disorders. These can be indicated by gross deterioration in behavior from previous levels, extreme disorientation and extreme confusion. Common signs are confusion (thoughts may jump from one idea to the next), hearing voices that are not there, excessive resentment and poor impulse control and behavior or habits that impress others as strange.

  Avoidant Disorder. The individual is a loner who avoids peers for fear of rejection, embarrassment or criticism. This condition is sometimes mistaken for autism.

  Paranoid Personality Disorder. The individual is very suspicious of others and quick to feel insulted and belittled. People with this problem may be volatile, stubborn, difficult to get along with, unreasonable, and have a tendency to overreact (make mountains out of molehills).

  Severe Behavior Problem. These include self-injurious behavior, hyperactivity, extreme irritability and chronic aggression or antisocial behavior. Researchers have found that behavior problems are sometimes related to depression, paranoia, psychosis, underlying medical conditions or specific brain dysfunction.

  Agree or disagree with the definition?
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  Siegs Wife,

  I would caution you that you're showing some signs of mental illness yourself. I certainly hope that you aren't so delusional that you honestly think you are capable of judging the mental capacity of individuals; most of whom you have never met nor had any contact with whatsoever. Delusions of grandeur perhaps?

  Perhaps I am delusional but I cannot see where I have judged any individual as mentall ill in this thread. In your lucidity perhaps you could show me where I have done so?

  Is the logic used too strong for you?
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  Ladonna,

  I have not yet written my autobiography as a way for everyone else to model their lives yet...
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  No one has taken on the definition of mental illness so far. Is mental illness the same as mental imbalance? Is it the same as mental instability?

  I believe it is...

  That is why I answer that anyone who puts their life on hold or lives for some belief system (instead of themselves) is unbalanced mentally.

  What can't the defenders understand? It's ok to admit that you are unbalanced...we won't hate you for it.
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

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  gravedancer

  SS,

  Let's concede that a jw is mentally ill because of his beliefs. If he later becomes an atheist, is he then automatically have a clean mental bill of health?

  Of course not. Just, how stupid do you think I am? (don't answer that - you might hurt my feelings)

  I suppose many religious people are a bit mentally ill. I would imagine that many atheists also have some mental problems. If you admit this, doesn't that make your whole thread pointless?

  Let's tackle the easy part first - yes all my threads are pointless. Now that we have that out of the way...perhaps you would reconsider (as in re-read/rethink) the premise of my thread - that modelling one's life on a foundation that you KNOW is a "fat-maybe" is ludicrous. People have been called crazy for smarter ideas than that.
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  70

  Religiously inclined are Mentally Ill

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i raised this briefly in chat earlier today and i expect a similar response to this thread.. my opinion is that if you are religious/spiritual then you are mentally ill.

  1. 
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  gravedancer

  144K + 1
  

  Since there's no way to determine the validity of religious belief until after we've entered our graves, labeling a religious person as mentally ill solely on the basis of their belief in religion isn't any different than a religious person labeling an atheist as mentally ill because of their lack of belief in god.

  It would seem highly probable obvious that if something is illogical or based on shaky assumptions that it might be invalid. If someone is a gambler is their course of action "valid" or "invalid"? Since you do not know if they will "hit the jackpot" and experience huge wealth as a result can we claim that gambling is and "invalid" course of action? Can we claim that gambling can be an addiction or that it might be a disease? Can we make these assertions without knowing the outcome? I think we can. In a like manner I have postulated that if people have no solid logical basis for their belief systems (ie - if they are just maybe's) that they are at serious risk. Risk of what, you ask? Risk of wasting their lives, risk of waiting for some future event, risk of deceiving themselves, risk of failing to make positive contributions to their society in terms of talent utilization. Are they free to believe what they want? Of course they are, just as in a free scoiety a gambler can waste every last penny.

  I personally think that your labeling of religious folks as "mentally ill," simply because you don't happen to share their beliefs, puts you in the same class as Jehovahs Witnesses who condemn others for not believing as they do.

  You are personally free to think that. I know my views will prove and have proven unpopular. That doesn't mean I have to bend them just because the opinion polls are low on my views.

  ...Nevertheless, I also acknowledge that my beliefs are no more valid than anyone else's.

  I am not seeking to validate ot invalidate yours or my beliefs. I made an assertion that people who base and run their whole lives on something that erquires faith or belief (not fact) can be classified as mentally ill.

  I hope that someday you'll learn humility and how to respect diversity of beliefs.

  Thats's a classic piece of psychology....nice try (and your response to this is that you aren't trying to use psychology - well the effect is the same). Just because my opinion makes you uncomfortable your natural reaction is to try and make me into the "badguy" or to silence me by trying to make me feel guilt.

  I feel no guilt, no regret for this viewpoint. If you cannot properly defend your opinion thats fine. As far as my humility and respect goes - those are facts irrelevant to the content of this thread. You probably think I am some arrogant atheist - forget about me. You don't know me, I don't know you. I am not a fluff-poster and don't want to be. If you want to argue ideas and concepts that's fine. Don't try to control me and I won't try to control you. You think I am an ass - that's fine...I don't really care what anyone on here thinks of me as a person.

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