since every culture ever studied has been shown to possess religious practices aka.
spirituality, the axiom: "culture doesn't exist apart from religion" would seem to indicate that popular ideas concerning the non-religiosity of athiestic tenets are merely fictional.
i have always been amused by the propaganda the non-deists (and sometimes deists as well) use to spin their ideology.
If the assertion that pure athiesm is not a religion is true, then it must also be true that pure theism is also not a religion.
This is the type of logic that is commnly accepted because it sounds smart.
It's like saying because bright sunny days don't make you wet then it must be true that miserable, rainy days don't make you wet either.
or
just because my logic is bullshit then yours must be too...
are we copping out if we blame the watchtower for almost everything that went wrong in our watchtower life?.
most of us knew the rules.
most of us had the opportunity to read and study their publications and the bible.
"Knowing the rules" is irrelevant to the fact that people are happy or unhappy.
You know that you are setting yourslf up for trouble if you do not live a healthy lifestyle. Then when something happens is it enough to say "well I knew the rules"? No you have to DO something from that point forward, even if it is limited by the consequences of what went on before.
since every culture ever studied has been shown to possess religious practices aka.
spirituality, the axiom: "culture doesn't exist apart from religion" would seem to indicate that popular ideas concerning the non-religiosity of athiestic tenets are merely fictional.
i have always been amused by the propaganda the non-deists (and sometimes deists as well) use to spin their ideology.
Ab - you are my favorite poster on the board these days. I die laughing at your posts.
But I never knew you believed in the saskwatch (sesquipadalian). Do you honestly think that they are real?
"Atheism is a religion." tut tut tut.
Since some here favor dictionary definitions of things I have the following definintion from dictionary.com:
re·li·gion Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)Is this an acceptable defintion of the word "religion"?
n.1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
1b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
I cannot find anything in the defintion that I would say describes atheism or the lifestyle it affords.
"the lifestyle it affords"....Let's look at the key differences here.
Atheism puts no obligation on me to consider how my actions will be construed by some God. I do not have to pay heed to stuff like "whatever we do we do for the glory of God" or "pleasse be wise my son, so that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me". There is no guilt trip associated with it. Why because I dont even think about how my pleasures and decisions affect some God. A religious person would do so....its part of the lifestyle. An atheist does not think about what isn't a factor.
We can go on for hours about this. But do you see the point? a religion imposes on YOU and the way you live your life. The lack of or opposite of religion does not impose anything on me at all.
To equate atheism with religion is ludicrous. To say that because an atheist lives with decency and trets people with integrity he is in "religious" is laughable.
should we love god and have faith in him because we are afraid of being annihilated if we don't?.
should we love god so we can be paid for it by getting a "mansion in the sky" or everlasting life or some other reward payment?
Does the fact that you give god a gender enable you to love it? Do you have to bestow human characteristics on god in order to have emotional feelings for it?
If this is true how can you say you KNOW god? If this is true and god is not male or female then how many other things have you pretended to yourself?
i'm probably gonna get creamed for this but i've made an observation and i need to know if i'm the only who feels this way...anywho...here goes.. ever since i left the "borg" a couple years ago i've been trying to find a home.
i thought i would find it in a group that did not agree with their teaching.
(i.e., apostates or chat rooms where free discussion is promoted) as time goes on, i realize i may be mistaken.
Are you looking for love or looking for answers?
My level of trust here is very low. I trust very few (although I did in the past and I got burned so I dont put my hand on the stove again) for a number of reasons. Many don't trust or are untrustworthy for any combination of the following reasons:
1. This is the internet and as such people use anonymous means to communicate (I do so myself for various reasons). Knowing that others are anonymous how can you trust them? True some have "come out" because they have nothing to lose by doing so but the majority here seem to need the potection of anonymity. So if we need protection then there is a reason to distrust right at the foundation.
2. Most here are distrustful because they have exited or still exists in a cult filled with manipulation and lies. they don't want to be burned again.
3. Some here are unstable and inflammatory (will condemn and call you names faster than you can say your name).
4. Some here are just plain miserable. They feel sorry for themselves and they feel you should be hurting as much as they are so they will do their best to make you miserable too.
5. Some are experimenting with their thoughts, feelings and beliefs. They are not sure which way is up after leaving the WT. Be careful you might be the rat that is used for the experiment.
6. Some are mystics and rely on faith.
7. Some are hard nosed atheists (me for instance - although I find myself in most categories I listed).
8. Some are trolls
9. Some are just shit stirrers
10. Some are just cyber-leeches.
In spite of all this most of the people are real people when they leave the keyboard. Find the real people and get to know them. then you can learn to trust them.
PS - dont trust me.
should we love god and have faith in him because we are afraid of being annihilated if we don't?.
should we love god so we can be paid for it by getting a "mansion in the sky" or everlasting life or some other reward payment?
What color is God's penis? What does he use it for?
HIM/HE/HIS
The fact that we attribute a gender to him (oops - I said HIM).
Whew boy (oh, damn did it again)
are we copping out if we blame the watchtower for almost everything that went wrong in our watchtower life?.
most of us knew the rules.
most of us had the opportunity to read and study their publications and the bible.
I find this thread disturbing. Very disturbing.
Why? Well, I realize this is a sensitive issue so lets see who can focus on the content of what I write without taking personal shots at me. So here goes:
Is the WTBS a terrible organization? YES
Do they suppress peoples talents and their happiness by their policies? YES
Do they use mind control? YES
I could go on going through lists of the badness concerning them. But it is irrelevant at some point. I know thats a statement that will cause issue...it has before.
But until people realize that your reality depends on YOU then you will not find success or happiness. Some days I just sit around depressed, I procratinate and I blame everything for my frame of mind except ME. Or on other days I have the other extreme - I sit there thinking what a terrible person I am and how unhappy I am.
So let say that it is true. Let's say the WTBS is the cause of ALL the problems we have. I now have some choices to make. I can blame them and JUSTIFY my misery. I can become a zombie. Or I can realize that I am responsible for the rest of my life. The way I deal with things can be shaped by ME. Will this mean I escape from my past and it goes away? NO - we are who we are today because of our past. But realizing that means we will be who we are in the future based on decisions we make today. So do you want to look back in 10 years and see that the last 10 years were as miserable as the previous ones? There are no guarantees, we cannot control the unforseen, but how we act now can increase and decrease the probability of our finding success and happiness.
I have raised this in the past and run headlong into people seeking a "shoulder to cry on" who get upset with me for saying what I do. Many times I am looking for the shoulder to cry on too. But when the need to continually cry supercedes the need for self esteem we become paralysed. That paralysis is lethal. It is a self perpetuating spiral because it gives us cause to blame something and not a cause for healing. True how others react to our tears shows us that we are not alone. But who are we crying to? Are we sitting around like starving masses in Africa? All that happens is many people with shoulders to cry on get nowhere. We seek other wounded to cure our wounds?
I am sure you believe I am an unsympathetic bastard or a cold-hearted person expressing my thoughts like this. If that is your reaction then: that is your reaction; that is you seeking to blame someone again; that is you making me the bad guy. Those reactions have no effect on me though, even if I am the bad guy. Finding a way to focus on ACTION to improve ourselves is the only way out for any of us. It is the only way that we can bring change. Humans are resistant to change. When we hear stories about how people have to "hit rock bottom in order to bounce back" that's a fallacy. It is a way for us to justify in our own mind that we are not doing that badly because we aren't at rock-bottom.
I don't have the RIGHT answer for other individuals. Nevertheless, I do know what some of the WRONG answers are. Seeking to blame and focus on a negative past is the wrong answer because all it holds in store for us is a neagtive future. We accept that the past has happened, lets not sink into "why me, oh why me" mode. The past is real, yes. But the ACTIONS we take, however small and however deliberate are the only way out of the misery pit.
ok so now you think you are all wised up to how cult mind control mechanisms work, but can you identify quickly and easily the language used by a poster intent on starting up a flame war?
what signifiers can we notice about a persons written communication structure, that might give clues away earlier than expected as to an individuals intention or current 'mood'?
can you spot the difference between someone writing genuinely or that of a person just here to start up trouble?.
Having written these posts, I now have to go for the evening. I have a happy hour and I will have one for you, Celtic.
Perhaps this thread can stand as an example of how to argue views without a flame war?
Face it we still have to be able to disagree and debate on this forum. Without that none of us will grow. We need the intelligence we all bring to the collective to help each other realize our own reality.
l8r
GD
ok so now you think you are all wised up to how cult mind control mechanisms work, but can you identify quickly and easily the language used by a poster intent on starting up a flame war?
what signifiers can we notice about a persons written communication structure, that might give clues away earlier than expected as to an individuals intention or current 'mood'?
can you spot the difference between someone writing genuinely or that of a person just here to start up trouble?.
Celtic,
I am a troublemaker. Not amongst peoples personalities but with generally accepted views. And if I rub you the wrong way I apologise (but don't take it personal please).
Please do not take PERSONAL offense at what I write. Please see that I challenge content and not the person's personality. True sometimes I will ask things that migght make a person think but I intend to hurt no one....even if I do bring discomfort.
Many here are comforters. I am not a comforter. so knowing this about me please don't get offended by what I write.
May peace with you too, Celtic
Regards
GraveDancer
ok so now you think you are all wised up to how cult mind control mechanisms work, but can you identify quickly and easily the language used by a poster intent on starting up a flame war?
what signifiers can we notice about a persons written communication structure, that might give clues away earlier than expected as to an individuals intention or current 'mood'?
can you spot the difference between someone writing genuinely or that of a person just here to start up trouble?.
Flower,
There is no need to start practicing flame-war tactics on me. I just finished pointing out that I do NOT engage in the flame wars. I do point out things like "facts" and refer to things that might be said, but I have hardly if ever been accused of flame wars.
If the facts and arguments I pose make you uncomfortable, am I supposed to apologize for that?
So without calling you names I will post facts and references to what you said and ask simple questions (not call you names - a mark of flame wars).I can only assume you use terms like "troll-like" to provoke me. Is that true? Or like the other post you made that was only "between you and Ladonna" was your post only "between you and Celtic"?
Perhaps I am a stupid person (note I flame myself - not you) but if things were only to be between 2 individuals why would you use a discussion board? Why would you not use email or a messaging program? So go ahead and say I am implying things without fact...
I have not insulted Celtic and I have not insulted you. I take issue with WHAT you write and debate such. Is that a flame war? If it is then this place will soon be sterilized into non-existence.
