Posts by Greenpalmtreestillmine

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi Toreador, (great name btw)

Parts of the bible seem to be tolerant of other and parts of it seems to be quite the contrary.

Yes. I have struggled myself with that very thing. I think the problem is that we've been taught a view, or picture, of God that is not in keeping with what the Bible actually teaches.

This is just an illustration: During WWII the allied armies bombed Berlin and other parts of Germany. From our point of view though, while there were innocent lives lost and even innocent children killed, the goal was worth the price of not only their lives but also the lives of the soldiers on both sides of the war. The greater good was put before the lives of those people.

Mankind kills for good reasons sometimes. He may not like it but at the time it was necessary. Did that make him intolerant? Personally, this has helped me to come to grips with the very thing you mentioned. Just a suggested line of reasoning on this.

But of course the basic question proposed here is whether or not Christianity is intolerant. In this regard all someone has to do is read the words of Jesus and understand his teachings of love towards all peoples no matter what their station in life; to see that Christianity as taught by the Christ is not intolerant.

Happy New Year to you!

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

AlanF,

. You in fact are angry with me because I proved that, despite your objections, you have no choice but to agree with Norm and me that Christianity is intolerant.

Correcting your assumptions, wrong conclusions and absurd statements:

#1 - I am not angry with you. Are you some kind of nut? I disagree with you and don't like the way you have tried to manipulate what's been said. But I am not angry with you. Unless of course in your mind to disagree with you is be angry with you! Forget the movie etc. some professional counseling would be time well spent on your part.

#2 - Has someone taught you that if you say something over and over others will believe it's true? Well, sorry to say, that does not work with everyone. No, you and Norm have not proven that I agree with you both that Christianity is intolerant. (Norm's ridiculous claim: Well, that was a refreshing post from you there. Finally we can agree on what I said in my first post that Christendom through claiming to be the only true religion are inherently arrogant, intolerant, discriminating and a thus a source of hatred and confict. In other words part of the problems mankind are struggling with, not the solution." )

You both know perfectly well the exact opposite is the truth and despite my repeated statements to that fact you continue to, to use your terminology, put forth the same clap-trap either saying I agree with you or that I have no choice but to agree.

If you disagree with us, you automatically disagree with the Bible.

#3 - Who said that if I disagree with you I automatically disagree with the Bible? Are you the Pope? Oh I see, you and Norm are now the GB here and to disagree with your biblical opinions is to disagree with the Bible. Okay I get it. lol

If you agree with us, your Christian ego is deflated. The resulting cognitive dissonance causes you to misdirect your anger.

#4 - Now this is the funniest thing you've said so far. You and Norm have falsely claimed I agree with you and continue to do so without apology. I have admitted to making a mistake and you say I am the one with the ego? Tell me, when you and Norm get your heads together how many rooms in your house do they fill?

As for not reading the rest of my post, you've personally demonstrated yet another characteristic of many Christians: a tendency to stick fingers in ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA LA!" until the irrititating thought goes away.

$5 - No actually, what that means is that I will not put up with arrogance and false claims of what I myself believe. When you can post in an adult manner, without arrogance and falsehoods, I will read your entire post and answer to the best of my ability. But don't expect me to play the target for the little games you enjoy playing. Post in an adult manner and I will respond in an adult manner.

With arrogance dripping from your posts, you and Norm misrepresent what I have said then you have the audacity to say that I am sticking my fingers in my ears becasue I object to reading it! No, AlanF, I have no fingers in my ears I am simply directing your effluent to where it belongs.

You and Norm have ignored the scriptures I used to show that Jesus does and will show love to all good people regardless of their religion because that is not what you want to hear and it's not what you want to talk about. You both want to talk about your obsessive compulsions to be proven right and if that means ignoring what others say that's just peachy with you both.

When you are willing to discuss the Sheep and the Goats illustration of Matthew 25 (without arrogance) I will be willing also. But I don't think you ever will be, will you?!! Because that illustration shows that Jesus calls those who do good things, righteous, and rewards them though they are not his religious brothers. I went to some length with Norm on all this but he did not address this at all. No, he just kept on saying the same thing over and over and never addressed those scriptures. Then you and he say I have agreed with you both, that I agree that Christianity is intolerant because it claims to be the only true religion etc. What a sad lot you both are.

You claim to see but when I point to a scripture you look away from it. Yet, AlanF you yourself complained that no one addressed your list of scriptures claiming that was a typical Christian thing to do. Now, since you and Norm have ignored my points and my scriptures I will follow your lead: I too claim that your actions are typical of atheist/agnostic apologists and should be viewed as your inability to deal with the truth when presented to you. It works both ways.

You say Christians evade, well my friends, you both have done a great heap of evading on this thread and an even greater heap of false claims. When you want to discuss Matthew 25:31 PM me and I will join in. Until then....continue ranting away with the same rubbish, evading my scriptural arguments, and making up false claims about my stand on Christianity's intolerance. Do not attempt to speak for other people unless and until they have given you permission to do so.

May your days be merry and your nights even merrier!

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi there Norm,

Well, that was a refreshing post from you there.

Why, thank you Norm!

Yes, you're right. I'm so glad we have come to the same conclusion that Christianity is the one true religion and if religious leaders had only practiced it as the Christ taught many today would be living happier lives instead of bending under the load of the religious oppression found in Christian religions llke the Watchtower and many others.

Norm, I am so happy to have reached this fine accord between us. My day is a happy one for sure!

So, what did you and AlanF pick for entertainment today; the library or chess? Well, good luck to you brother!

Sabrina

20

Why is it wrong for step-daughter to go from FT Pioneer to Aux. Pioneer?

by wordlywife in

jw
friends

hi all- i haven't posted in quite a while but visit here a lot.

i am a non-witness married to a reinstated jw.

we were married when he was df, long story.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

In the Watchtower going from Pioneer to Auxillary is a stepping down of sorts. But there is also the private expectations and hopes we all put upon ourselves. Your step-daughter may feel she's letting God down or herself down for that matter. I've known several pioneers who have had to reduce their time and step into the auxillary work. They were sad about it but there was nothing they could do. Their circumstances demanded a change.

As a Pioneer your step-daughter is considered among the elite of the Witnesses. If she marries, pioneering opens the door to missionary work, and other areas of full time service in the Witness religion. Perhaps you can encourage her to go to college in order to increase her earnings potential.

You sound like a great Mom, just keep loving her like you do.

Sabrina

17

The Book of Revelation

by under74 in

okay, if anyone's seen my last post i'm doing a research paper on adventist groups.

right now i'm reading revelation since it's a big thing amongst adventists.

my own conclusion is that revelation had to do with the time it was written in.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi Under74,

I have no opinions on Revelation, except that the seven congregations obviously show that most of the Christian congregations/churches were, and still are, plagued by false teachings and false brothers/prophets. I've heard of the preterist position but not sure if that has all the answers.

Thanks for starting up this topic.

Sabrina

32

How did field service duty affect your zeal for the troof?

by M.J. in

did it reinforce your dedication to the cause?

or did it burden and disillusion you?

Greenpalmtreestillmine

The pressure to conform and perform in the Witness religion is tremendous.

This takes away so much of the true joy in life but I did not see that until I left. When they mandate preaching they suffocate neighborly love and push fear of displeasing the Society into its place.

The Watchtower is run by some very troubled and immature men.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi there AlanF,

Well, like I said before, you said that Jesus taught essentially that Christianity is the only true religion, and Norm said he agreed with that, and in an earlier post I quoted a number of scriptures that confirmed that unbelievers are to suffer a fiery judgment, and it's a no-brainer that a religion that teaches that non-believers will be killed by the religion's God is by definition intolerant, and I had the impression that you agree with what the scriptures say. The conclusion, therefore, is obvious.
Now, if my conclusion is wrong, do point out which of the above statements is incorrect, or why, taken together, they allow of a different conclusion.

You are knowingly posting false conclusions, but if thats what floats your boat go right ahead. You are trying to annoy, childish game, but you seem to enjoy it. Perhaps you're bored, please see post script below.

The fact remains I did not agree with Norm and you know that. You said Norm was visiting you, gauging from the above quote it seems you two have started your New Years party already.

I have started a new policy with regard to Norm's posts and yours. I read until a false accusation occurs or a superior attitude is manifested then I stop reading. Fortunately that moment came with the first paragraph in your post and I was spared reading the rest.

Happy New Year or should I say Happy New Year Week!

Sabrina

P.S. You're spending a lot of time playing games on this thread. Shouldn't you be taking Norm out to dinner or something. Perhaps you both could use a visit to Barnes and Noble, have a cup of coffee on me. Or maybe you could take him shopping or a movie? The opera? State Park? Shuffle Board? No? Well, then, nothing to do but to continue trying to entertain yourselves with posting untruths I suppose.

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi there Norm,

As far as I understand your last post, you do actually think that Christendom is the only true religion, or "way" if you prefer that.

Yep.

Well that wasn't so hard was it?

Well, it was rather hard for you since I expressed my view on that a few pages ago. You had some kind of memory lapse or something. But rather than admit that you write the above. How can you live with your own hypocrisy Norm? No matter.

Then I guess that makes all the other ones false, right?

Yep.

Then we have this one, how do you know that it is the only true religion/way? Since it is a life/death mattter I guess
one has to be pretty sure, right?

Because and Yes.

Then we can get on with the question to what happens to those who belong to the false religions?
Those who doesn't accept Jesus as the way.

Norm, I already answered that question. You don't actually read the posts do you Norm. You just pick out things to find fault with and ignore the rest. I told you pages ago that Jesus taught he alone taught the way to God and I also told you that good people outside of Christianity were loved by the Christ and considered righteous. Tell me this Norm. Why should I discuss this again with you when you obviously ignored what I said before?

Are you finished now with your "debunking Christianity questions". You have been chomping at the bit to ask them and have them answered. It seems you think those questions are some magical way of proving you right. Well, glad to help out Norm. Sleep well.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

AlanF,

From what I've read of this thread up to now, it seems to me that you and Norm (I think you're referring to him; correct me if I'm wrong) actually do agree that Christianity is basically intolerant.

No! I do not. Where did you get such an idea? If you like to paint everyone with the same brush that is your sad problem. No, I do not believe Christianity is basically intolerant. As I posted to Norm there are good and bad in every religion, Christianity included. If you want to invent your own assumptions go right ahead but I do not believe Christianity is basically intolerant. Good Golly Miss Molly! You haven't read a word I've written! But so what, it matters not.

I'm sure that we all agree that a religion that teaches that people who don't go along with it will be killed by its God is inherently intolerant.

Uh, excuse me but Simon I think does not allow the language that I believe your statement deserves. So I will improvise...AlanF, when you use the words WE and ALL be certain whom you are addressing otherwise what you say may be regarded by some as, to put it very politely, Bull Shit!

Look, believe whatever you want but do not attempt to speak for everyone. Or are you now the great GB of this board?

If not, then the definition of intolerance means nothing. Norm stated that Christianity is like that, and you agreed by saying that Jesus pointed "the way, the only way". So it's possible to find agreement after all.

Uhh.... yeah, whatever AlanF. Hey if like Norm you require people to kiss up and say you're right I'm cool with that.....Hey AlanF, you got a point there wow what a splendid rebuttal and so coherent too! Thanks man, nobody like you ever!

I'm certainly not going to dignify the ludicrous ideas of young-earth creationism by verbally 'allowing' that its adherents have every right to believe what they want.

I never brought up that subject.

They do have that right in a free society, of course, but not to be free from criticism.

As I have repeatedly said ad nauseam it is not criticism that rankles but ridicule. My god what a wall! Oh...sorry, Norm's posting style rubs off easily.

And I'm not going to verbally allow that JWs have much dignity of mind and conscience when I know perfectly well what kind of mind control they're subjected to and how that affects their ability to reason, and even to recognize the truth when they see it.

Uh....huh.

So why should I not be consistent in everything else that comes up for discussion on this board?

Yep, I see your point. If one is going to mow over some it is only proper that he mow over everyone. True logic there. Have to commend you!

There's a line from an Austin Powers movie that goes something like this: "There are two things I hate in this world. People who have no respect for other peoples cultures.....and the Dutch!" Your repeated declarations of disdain towards those who are in some way not to your liking such as believers in astrology or Christians or whomever else in your heart you disdain is sad, very sad. Because when you cannot see beyond a label and recognize that individuals are dynamic and are not all easily fitted into a box and that maybe just maybe not everything they believe in may be a crock; you segregate yourself just as much as the JWs do.

AlanF, you believe in your own religion, the religion of your own opinion. And since you believe that when it comes to Christanity and other belief systems your opinion is the only right one then that means that by your own definition you yourself are intolerant.

But hey, no big deal. I've become intolerant myself. I've become intolerant of people who actually believe they are superior to others and who believe they alone know truth and the only truth. I've become intolerant of you and Norm.

Everyone, everyone on this planet has the right to their own conscience and their own religious or non-religious beliefs. Everyone also has the right to be respected as an individual. You said yourself you do not respect people who believe in astrology, you called it clap trap. Fortunately, AlanF few in this world really care who or what you respect.

Sabrina

25

Please Help the Asian Earthquake Victims!

by Sirona in

as you know the earthquake has killed an estimated 10,000 people today in asia.

there are over 1,000,000 people now homeless as a result.. if you can help by donating to charitable organisations such as the red cross and oxfam, please do.

see if you can donate time to man helplines or help in any other practical way.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Thank you Sirona for the links.

BTT