Posts by abbagail

24

Transcript of the UK letter

by dmouse in

jw
friends

i went to the meeting this morning and taped the reading of the letter, and transcribed it when i got home.

there are a few alterations to the u.s. letter posted by silent lambs.

i have highlighted these changes.. .

abbagail

Expatbrit wrote:

The letter is pathetic.
1) Blow our own trumpet.
2) Say something nasty about everyone else.
3)Repeat the usual rubbish about Bible principles that got them into this mess,surrounded by good sounding phrases like "decisive action". Hope no-one notices.

What you say above is EXACTLY what the current-JW-flock wrote in their messages to the Panorama/BBC show. It made me sick reading them. They wrote nasty things about the reporter, the show, and the BBC itself; they said how great the JW religion is; and just like you say, 1-2-3, they finished up with scriptural backup that proves they would never do such things, blah blah. If you didn't get a chance to read them yet, be ready to have your gut wrenched when you do.

And thanks dmouse for posting/typing out the letter. I got it thru silent lambs email earlier but the "highlighting" didn't show up, so I wasn't sure which parts of the letter were changed from the first version. For the non-thinking JWs (of which I was one), they will never even be able to "read between the lines," as I wouldn't have either without you brilliant deep-thinkers here to point out all of the subliminal subtleties (sp?).

Thanks again.

GRITS

Edited by - grits on 15 July 2002 6:42:9

18

WATCHTOWER OFFICIAL RESPONSE TO PANORAMA!

by izobcenec in

jw
friends

with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter.

reveal that similar, uncorroborated allegations were lodged against the same person in the past, perhaps.

may 9, 2002. page 2. however, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the.

abbagail

A little girl tries to approach Jesus sitting in the crowd.

Her pedophile uncle, and follower of Jesus, tries to stop her.

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not try to stop them...:"

So the little girl makes it up to Jesus' lap and he puts his arms around her. She whispers to him that her uncle, who brought her there, has been touching her in ways that he should not.

Jesus sets her back down, and says to the uncle: "Come with me over here behind this tree."

The uncle follows Jesus.
Jesus looks him in the eye and asks, "Did you do this?"
The uncle says, "NO LORD! I would NOT do any such thing. The girl is making up fantasies."

Jesus says, "Okay, then. Good enough. That's all I needed to know. Continue following me as my disciple..."

Jesus goes back to the little girl, kneels down to her level, and says, "I'm sorry Honey, but because there is no one else to back up what you say, I cannot believe you, and I cannot get myself in a jam without another witness to what you have told me. Look, here's your uncle now... run along home with him and be a good little girl and don't ever tell anyone else what you told me... ESPECIALLY don't tell any of the Roman soldiers... you know, they hate me and my followers already, so you would just make trouble for us, and you wouldn't want to do that now, would you?"

The little girl is trembling, frozen on the spot, all hope has vanished, and the look of death covers her eyes like a veil...

----------------------------

Feel free to finish the story...

GRITS

26

Give the BBC your comments on "PANORAMA"

by Prisca in

jw
friends

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_855000/855727.stm

on this link you can give public comments on your views of the panorama programme.

already, several jws are in denial over the claims of the programme, and i think we need to add some balanced comments to show that there are many ex-jws who have been hurt by the wts, and that we appreciated the programme.. please tell the bbc your thoughts..

abbagail

Oh MAN!!! I was just there reading some of the current-JW schpeeel, and it made me SICK. They are SO BLIND. Obviously Panorama hit a raw nerve, because the JW's are not only insulting the lambs and Bill Bowen, but they are also showing their true colors by insulting the reporter, the staff, the show, and the BBC itself! It is SICKENING! I'd like to shake some sense into them! "Oh, nooooooo, this would NEVER HAPPEN in OUR religion..." blah blah blah! One JW was even "dumb" enough to write how "we were WARNED about this persecution..." Such a SET-UP!

Arrrrggghh! I am so aggravated after reading their HEARTLESS & BLIND comments.

But I did add my 2-cents thanking Panorama and telling them they did a GREAT JOB and pay no mind to the JWs who have been slowly and subtly brainwashed that they can't even SEE the harsh realities of LIFE, i.e., YOUR LEADERS, yes YOURs most certainly WOULD & DO cover up!

Please! If you have not yet gone to that link to express your opinion on the show, please do it now! We can't let the JW blinded-posts outnumber ours!

THANKS mucho!

GRITS

6

Panorama kicks butt

by dmouse in

wow!!!!!!!!!.

i'm still reeling (and i bet a few jws are too!).

kudos to the panorama team!

abbagail

6of9: You can watch it on your computer if you have Real Player. I think it will be available for 7 days to watch, and it was FANTASTIC! I loved the way they had so many shots in front of the actual KHalls... and it was so kewl the way the lady reporter called Gilles from her cell phone standing in front of the KHall... and I also loved, as stated above, how they made themselves at home at the DC until TJ got through speaking and stepped off the platform. I just wonder if they had their big cameras with them, and how that was even allowed? and the bros/sis sitting in the audience at the DC must have been wondering what in the world was going on... The law officers who were on the program were also SUPERB! And not to forget, too, the victims who all expressed themselves so WELL! Important, too, is how the police officers made it clear that elders harassing or trying to tamper with the victim will not be tolerated as that would be obstructing justice.

Here's the link which will download to your computer the file which, if you have the Real Player, will play it on your desktop, it's about 37 minutes long: <a href=" http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114320.stm"; target="_new"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114320.stm;

And here's a (Real Player) AUDIO of a newscast, 7 minutes long, before the show aired, and it is also VERY GOOD as some comments/details are stated in it that were not on the visual program: Report by Panorama's Shabnam Grewal.
Listen here < http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/sunday/s20020714g.ram>; (7m 21s)

GRITS

Edited by - grits on 15 July 2002 4:4:46

7

Another spin on the "2 witnesses"

by Lady Lee in

16 but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

ok you go once and try to talk to him and he doesn't listen.

then you go back and "take with thee one or two more".

abbagail

I think what Lady Lee wrote makes sense, as did Stewart's about Caesar.

I think the policy COULD be changed using these points, you know, new light/adjustment on previously "misinterpreted" scriptures.

At the same time, I feel the GB are sticking to their guns re: the 2 witness rule because if they say, "yes, we were being narrow-minded, we are sorry," they are afraid they will open themselves up to enormous liability. In other words, I think THEY think "it's too late to turn back now" (no matter how FOOLISH they look) especially with the civil suits already having been filed against the WTBTS.

I just hope the stories & media coverage keep coming and coming, that's all I can hope for.

GRITS

6

Look who else is talking about it

by Lady Lee in

.

the zone.

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=b164cc209c1e1ea39b732fad8bea11ac&threadid=5129.

abbagail

Thanks JanH. That was very encouraging to read, and it's comforting to know that particular bro/sis wasn't afraid to share his/her thoughts/feelings honestly. He should be given a prize -- a month OFF from field service. :)

I wonder what his comrades at the site will think of it.

GRITS

11

Sunday July 14 Parade Magazine Cover Article

by blondie in

i can't find the article on line but here is:.

andrew vachss website.

http://www.vachss.com/.

abbagail

Thanks blondie for posting this info about the Vaachs article. I had forgotten about this guy, but he is fantastic, and a child-advocate through and through his heart and soul. I read some of his articles back around '94 or '95, and saw him being interviewed on TV. He has a book or two on the subject.

I especially liked this quote: "Making mandated reporters of those working in religious orders would not interfere with any version of the "priest-penitent" privilege. When a child victim or their parent discloses abuse, they are not "confessing," they are crying for help."

That is SO TRUE!!!! I mean any kid who was being abused, if he went out and told the man on the daily garbage truck what was happening, the kid would get more help and compassion from the garbage man than he would from elders who, before anything else, ask: Did anybody ELSE see it?

Arrrrgggh!

GRITS

55

Hardline on disfellowshipped ones

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

once again a hard line is being taken on shunning disfellowshipped and disassociated ones.

perhaps this is some sort of backlash against the recent adverse dateline publicity in the us, the forthcoming pananorama programme in the uk and problems with a number of influential ones leaving the organization.

the text below is from the august km insert and the meeting part is to be handled by a "well qualified" elder with the paragraphs being read by a "capable reader".

abbagail

Eyeslice wrote: " In the article below, there only two scriptures of any note that can be used to justify disfellowshipping. Pauls writing to Corinthians and Jesus words in Matthew 18."

Yet they quote from/point to Watchtower articles TEN times.

So what does that tell us?
(rhetorical question!)

;)

GRITS

13

Jaracz Witnesses

by messenger in

jw
friends

well it appears jaracz is alive and well and calling the shots.

the df article in the august km is typical of a new breed of "witnesses" that started back in the mid 1980s when tj started molding the organization into his image.

first it was dumbing down the talks with no illustrations or creativity, then came the canned scriptures with the over simplified sermons at the door.

abbagail

Thanks Avengers for helping out my rusty memory... Rehoboam, yes. Solomon's son... and I used to know all these guys like they were part of the family... What a snotty little "punk" he turned out to be, eh? --- It pays to keep a Bible near the laptop, it's getting more use since reading xjw forums than it has in some time, sad to say & shame on me.

And thanks to eyeslice... having been a single sis in the congs, it's always fascinating to hear what being an elder was really like, from someone who "was there" and not afraid to talk about it. I take it you had more of the generous forgiving spirit in the JC's... --- Also, thanks for the threads to the KM's. I'm heading over there now...

And, Mr. Farkel (that name, what a prize!)... loved Mad Magazine as a kid. My brother turned me on to them... how the Mad Mag had the blurbs above everyone's head, showing what they were REALLY thinking... it used to crack me up big time. --- So whatdaya know about TJ? Is it private info? I wondered, not know messenger at all, if the info he expressed was opinion or fact... oh well, I'm sure this thread will grow by leaps and bounds before it's over...

Thanks people!

GRITS

24

A SISTER IS AFRAID SHE WILL GET MARKED

by minimus in

jw
friends

yesterday, a friend told me that she has been secretly dating a non- witness.

she plans on marrying him and will tell about her relationship only after she is married.

she is worried that she will be marked.

abbagail

Thanks dungbeetle for being so quick with the back-up WT documentation... it's always nice to be reminded/getting to SEE it in black and white!

Question: Why do they try to get DA letters from people? What does it matter? If the people have exited the WT, and are not associating, then what does it matter if there's an official letter on file somewhere?

As for the sis and the worldly guy... don't know if it was just me, but while a JW I always thought it was a Big No No (disloyal, and will end up like King Solomon who fell away, etc. etc.). But SO TRUE to whoever made the joke, that "look around the KH" as there's SLIM PICKIN's for partner-prospects... there was ZILCH for marriage prospects in the congs where I came from, everyone was either teenie-boppers or elderly.

Congrats to the sis for finding true love!