You mean a paper-trail of the Vatican's own documents?
Doesn't WT have it's own "documents" that it keeps trying to hide (or shred?) such as the 28,000(?) names, etc.?
Last I heard from Kim, which was a LONG time ago, about the time that big settlement occurred last year, if I remember correctly she said they were working on another case that would blow the entire house down (ie, so much proof there would be no way to rebut it).
But I don't know anything specific. Maybe Barb Anderson knows...??
abbagail
JoinedPosts by abbagail
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13
COURT RULES VATICAN LIABLE for USA PEDO CASES - Surely WT Nervous Over This
by abbagail inon november 25, 2008, the wall street journal law blog and the wsj both posted articles about this... .
sixth circuit: vatican can be sued for sexual abuse .
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/11/25/sixth-circuit-vatican-can-be-sued-for-sexual-abuse/.
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abbagail
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Are the Mormons a cult?
by JimmyPage inlooking at jw videos on youtube the mormons are also portrayed as a cult.
i know they have some unusual beliefs, but are they a cult?
and if so, are they as much a high control group as the jw's are?
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abbagail
Ha! to ninja. Brilliant.
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Kingdom Hall Interiors
by TheMan inso i drove by my old kingdom hall the other day and noticed that it had a for sale sign in front of it.
this came as no surprise to me, as i knew that they recently won approval to build a new kingdom hall in a neighboring town.
(caused a bit of a stir in town - but that's a different story).
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abbagail
Ha, I've never seen a PINK KH. Maroon maybe, but not pink. Not quite what you'd expect in a "church."
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19
Are the Mormons a cult?
by JimmyPage inlooking at jw videos on youtube the mormons are also portrayed as a cult.
i know they have some unusual beliefs, but are they a cult?
and if so, are they as much a high control group as the jw's are?
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abbagail
I thought the "cult" title (in a "religious sense") was only bestowed on groups who deny the Diety of Jesus Christ, which the Mormons do, as do the JWs.
Let me clarify: In a "Christian religious sense," I thought the "cult" term was applied to those groups who deny the Diety of Jesus Christ. -
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COURT RULES VATICAN LIABLE for USA PEDO CASES - Surely WT Nervous Over This
by abbagail inon november 25, 2008, the wall street journal law blog and the wsj both posted articles about this... .
sixth circuit: vatican can be sued for sexual abuse .
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/11/25/sixth-circuit-vatican-can-be-sued-for-sexual-abuse/.
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abbagail
heehee, carla. I thought about that, but couldn't remember the "legal term" for filing as a "Friend of the Court." Don't they call that Amicus Brief? Yes! It came to me as I was typing the question. And I looked it up:
Amicus Brief: Document filed in a legal proceeding by an interested party who is not directly part of the case.
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You betcha. I even wondered if WT had not already jumped on the legal-beagle bandwagon with the Vatican to appeal this decision. Wouldn't surprise me one bit! Now wouldn't that freak out the JWs, if the Vatican and the WT go to court together, lol.
First they "ride the wild beast" with the UN.
But if they were to "get in bed" with the whore of Babylon, that should shake the very foundation of the JW masses. -
61
let me get this straight...we ARE gonna grow OLD and Die???
by oompa inwhat a total mindfluck!.....this was not supposed to happen.....and i only (completely) woke up two years ago....so accepting my own mortality has not been easy.......i currently make good enough money....but damm....now i have to think about retirement?!?!?
?....and ya....just cause i have a touch of asthma ocassionally...i wont be able to get health insurance in a few years cause i am self-employed??
?....this just fluckkin sucks.................oompa.
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abbagail
Undercover in the sexy Trenchcoat:
"Name one person in the entire history of mankind that has not died..."
I'll give you two... ENOCH and ELIJAH.
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" and then rationalize why we think we won't die. It's a crazy belief. Yet, 6 million JWs profess to have that hope of not dying."
Actually, the number is much larger than just 6 mil JWs (though their interpretation is totally whacky and different from these next....) >>> Most Bible-believing born-again Christians believe we are in the last generation (due to Israel becoming a nation again after 2,500 years in 1948, and NOT for the same reasons the WT does, ie, 1914 and all that); and that we will be "caught up alive" to "meet the Lord in the air" in our lifetime. Greek: Harpazo. Latin: Rapturo, hence, the Rapture.
1st Thess. 4:17:
"WE who ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be CAUGHT UP together with them [the dead in Christ] in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."
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This chart may turn out to be a disaster, since I can't do quote/blocks, so here's the link just in case:
http://www3.telus.net/thegoodnews/rapture3.htm
Contrast Between The Rapture and The Return Of Christ
RAPTURE! vs. RETURN!
1. Christ Comes FOR His Own. ------- 1. Christ Comes WITH His Own.
(John 14:3) (1 Thess.14:3) (2 Thess. 2:1) ------- (1 Thess.3:13) (Jude 14) (Rev. 19:14)
2. He Comes IN THE AIR. ------- 2. He Comes TO THE EARTH.
(1 Thess. 4:17) ------- (Zech. 14:4) (Acts 1:11)
3. He CLAIMS His Bride. ------- 3. He Comes WITH His Bride.
(1 Thess. 4:16-17) ------- (Rev. 19:6-14)
4. Removal Of BELIEVERS in Christ. ------- 4. Manifestation OF CHRIST.
(1 Thess. 4:17) ------- ( Malachi 4:2)
5. Only HIS OWN See Him. ------- 5. EVERY EYE Shall See Him.
(1 Thess. 4:13-18) ------- (Rev. 1:7)
6. Tribulation BEGINS. ------- 6. Millennial KINGDOM Begins.
(2 Thess. 1:6-9) ------- (Rev. 20:1-7)
7. The Saved Are DELIVERED FROM Wrath. ------- 7. Unsaved EXPERIENCE The Wrath Of God.
(1 Thess. 1:10; 5-9) ------- (Rev. 6:12-17)
8. NO SIGNS PRECEDE The Rapture. ------- 8. Signs DO PRECEDE The second Coming.
(1 Thess. 4:13-18) ------- (Luke 21:11-15)
9. Focus: LORD AND CHURCH/HIS BODY/BRIDE. ------- 9. Focus: ISRAEL AND KINGDOM.
(1 Thess. 2:3-12) ------- (Matt. 24:14)
10. World Is Deceived. ------- 10. Satan Is Bound.
(2 Thess. 2:3-12) ------- (Rev. 20:1-2)
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Some think the rapture will actually cause the start of the Tribulation, but I'm not so sure about that. Me thinks WW3 will do that job all by itself.
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So Oompa:
"let me get this straight...we ARE gonna grow OLD and Die???"
Since you put that as a question, NO, NOT NECESSARILY. See above.
You could get run over by a truck tomorrow...
I could drop dead today...
I just passed the big 55, so I am 4 years away from the Big 6-0! Horrors! I don't like getting older either... it's a super duper D-R-A-G !!! But I have hope, not just "die a natural death" hope, but something the WT never taught, ie, "THE BLESSED HOPE" (Titus 2:13). Get the sense of it and you'll cope a whole lot betta!
/ag -
61
let me get this straight...we ARE gonna grow OLD and Die???
by oompa inwhat a total mindfluck!.....this was not supposed to happen.....and i only (completely) woke up two years ago....so accepting my own mortality has not been easy.......i currently make good enough money....but damm....now i have to think about retirement?!?!?
?....and ya....just cause i have a touch of asthma ocassionally...i wont be able to get health insurance in a few years cause i am self-employed??
?....this just fluckkin sucks.................oompa.
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abbagail
"How do you know when your dead?..Is there something special I should look for?..LOL!!..................................OUTLAW"
You wake up ALIVE in a dark pit surrounded by firey FLAMES! Ha! That's how you know. ;-D Big Cheesy Grin.
/ag -
22
Kingdom Hall Interiors
by TheMan inso i drove by my old kingdom hall the other day and noticed that it had a for sale sign in front of it.
this came as no surprise to me, as i knew that they recently won approval to build a new kingdom hall in a neighboring town.
(caused a bit of a stir in town - but that's a different story).
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abbagail
I love orange and green! Great tropical Florida colors! But in the hallway they had MAROON and BLUE -- "Country Kitchen Colors" -- which I can't stand! Hardly a match w/orange and green!
And that drab yellowish curtain on the stage... surely there is a waterfall/paradise-earth mural behind it? ;-)
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When they redecorated my old hall, they did it in Maroon and Grey. Blah blah blah!
I always liked the colors of the KH down from the one I attended, as they did theirs in TEAL TEAL TEAL! ;-)
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In the ad, all they show is payments, but what's the big kahuna total price?
Not that I want to buy it, just curious. Though former KH's would make nice start-up places for Bible Churches... after they anoint it with oil and run the WT demonz out... ;-) -
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No More Publisher Numbers
by GermanXJW inaccording to a report on the german xjw-board: http://forum.sektenausstieg.net/index.php?topic=13367.msg391400#msg391400 the german kingdom ministry for february 09 does not contain a supplement with the publisher figures.
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furthermore, it does not contain the monthly report for the first month of the service year 2009 (sep 08) as it used to in the past.sixty years.. this may indicate that the wts is not that transparent with their publishers numbers any more if they are not even doing away with it.. can anyone confirm from other countries?.
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abbagail
LOL @ Kenneson re: the 144,000.
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Quote by Shamus:
"I think they could be closing the doors, so to speak. It's a theory, but time will tell."
Funny, but within the past week I was thinking of all the changes of late, lowering all the hour requirements for everybody down to practically nothing, shortening the sermons and meetings, deleting the book study, discontinuing some of the mags, etc. etc., and I had the same thought/impression as you... I thought to myself, "Sounds like they are just going to shrivel down to nothing" and then make an announcement, "CLOSED. Our Religion Is Now CLOSED." ;-) and I had images in my head of JWs just freaking out all over the place.... "Where shall we go?" (If they only knew, it would be a BLESSING if the WT closed shop!)
After putting on my tin-foil hat, though, I also wondered... Maybe the Masonic overlords are ready to "absorb/assimilate" the submissive/obedient JWs into their feudalistic New World Order as slaves for their mansions and estates (paradise earth, remember?), and all the JWs will "seem to disappear" overnight while the WT simultaneously dissipates into thin air (or so it will appear to those "left behind").
/ag -
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"Draw close to God, and he will"....never speak to you.....
by oompa inwell me and bonnzo got to go to a big jw funeral today (oh what fun!
)...in a high school auditorium...so i see bonnzo in the crowd and texted him during the service that i could see him, and i was so hoping he had not put his cell on vibrate, but he had....darn it.
so my mind was wandering, and i have been wondering what it would take for me to get any of my faith back (i'm agnostic now)...and this scripture pops in my head: .
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abbagail
Hey oompa, glad to see you're not giving up!
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"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke IN TIME PAST to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us BY [HIS] SON, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds..." - Hebrews 1:1,2
The SON = The WORD, written, spoken, and Alive as a Person.
The SON, in turn, sent the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit: "...that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might THROUGH HIS SPIRIT in the INNER MAN..." - Eph. 3:16
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Granted, it takes practice to "hear" the Holy Spirit. But when you do, it is unmistakeable.
JWs and exJWs probably have a harder time that most since ALL the time we ever spent in WT-Land -- where such a thing was UNHEARD OF -- because the only "spirit" we were supposed to "hear from" was whatever came from the GB! ;-/
I've also heard that analytical people have a harder time hearing from the Holy Spirit in their "inner man" because they spend all their time in their heads. Are you analytical? ;-)
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Try putting on some worship music and praising God FIRST.... then offer up your prayer requests...
He likes that praise -- with or without music -- first! ;-)
http://www.intouch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=dhKHIXPKIuE&b=2288445&content_id={3218E1C2-3E7B-4717-BB0F-49274CDE4F11}¬oc=1
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If you want to break a stronghold of not hearing from God, try fasting and praying... fasting will clean out your own spirit, attitude, and thoughts, so you are more receptive to hearing from His Spirit...
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Of course you have to BELIEVE He will answer you... it might not be right then on the spot, but be on the "lookout" for the answer... and when you see it/get the answer, you will KNOW He sent it just TO you, FOR only you... and it will knock your socks off when it happens! = JOY!
"But without faith [it is] impossible to please [Him,] for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." - Hebrews 11:6
" If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; [he is] a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways." - James 1:5-8
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I heard a preacher recently say, "When I can't hear FROM God, I R-E-A-D GOD!" Have you tried reading the Bible lately? Open it, read from it, sit, be still, be quiet. Before you start, pray that the Lord will speak to you through His Word... when He does, it, too, will knock your socks off! = JOY! Because you will KNOW it was you and Him alone, so what He gives you will be JUST FOR YOU. VERY personal touch!
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I heard another preacher say not too long ago if we will "make an appt. with God" -- same time, every day, for 30 days straight -- he said it will change your entire life. Just show up every day, same time, and do it, he said. And God will honor it. (I have a whacko sleep schedule, so I could never muster 30 days straight at the same time, but I am definitely intriqued by the idea...) He said even if nothing happens at first, don't give up. Play worship music. Read some scripture. Meditate. Wait. Give yourself whatever time limit you can every day, and just do it. Consistency is the key, he said. Just another idea for you. ;-)
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Charles Stanley, a great teacher/preacher, writes and preaches a lot about hearing from God. Start watching him on weekends... his show even airs on secular channels on the weekends...
Short article: "Hearing God": http://www.intouch.org/site/c.dhKHIXPKIuE/b.2522791/k.8FA7/Life_Principle_13__Answers_to_Lifes_Questions__Hearing_God.htm
Book: "How to Listen to God":
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=64146&event=CF
Chapters:
1. Is God Still Talking?
2. God's Goal in Communicating
3. How God Gets Our Attention
4. Identifying the Voice of God
5. Factors That Determine How God Communicates
6. Are You Listening?
7. Sitting Before the Lord
8. Your Spiritual Mind Set
9. Hindrances to Hearing
10. Listening and Obeying
11. The Life That Listens - A Well-Built Life
Another book by Charles Stanley:
"Listening to God: Experience a Deeper Relationship with God by Learning to Hear His Voice"
http://www.amazon.com/Listening-God-Experience-Relationship-Learning/dp/0785272577/ref=pd_sim_b_1
And one more, same author: "Living in the Power of the Holy Spirit"
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product/940742663?item_no=65126&event=CFN
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In the reviews of the above books, I read a tip from a reviewer: Start out your prayers by first praying for an enemy...
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There's a lot of great articles online about Hearing From God... just do a google, "How do I hear from God?" -- or "Help! I can't hear from God!" -- etc. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=How+can+I+hear+from+God&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
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And if you've been saying or writing nasty things about God, you might want to put a whammie on that and lay off for awhile. Remember the Word says...
"Do not quench the Spirit." - 1 Thess. 5:19
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God..." - Eph. 4:30
If you're badmouthing God, it's not likely He's going to be in the mood to respond.
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Not picking on you here, but I ran across these as I was looking up the verse #'s for the above... Just little reminders...
1 Cor 12:3 -- "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."
1 Cor 2:14 -- "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them,] because they are spiritually discerned."
There's a LOT of verses re: the Spirit, Holy Spirit, check them out at a Bible search engine, such as Olive Tree:
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
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One other thing I read recently in some reviews of Audio Bibles... one lady said she and her hubbie began having the Audio/Bible on 24/7, non-stop! They just go about their business all day, and even sleep at night, but leave it on 24/7! -- I was like, Wow. How do they do that? Wished I could have written the person and asked, as I don't think I could sit and "think" -- like now -- and have someone narrating in the background (ADD-brain). But she said it absolutely changed their lives. I wanted to know more, but oh well, no way to contact the person to ask, but I won't forget the idea. I want to try it out sometime.
Best narrator ever: Max McLean -- The Listener's Bible. Wow!
Next best: Alexander Scourby.
Both of those guys are better than Stephen Johnson's narrations... he's too fast for my brain.
Of course there's also many 'dramatized' Bible narrations.
Also James Earl Jones narrated the NT, as did Johnny Cash, if you like "country twang." ;-)
Depends on whose voice and reading-speed you like best.
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To wrap this up... here's my prayer for you, oompa...
"... that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to YOU the spirit of wisdom AND revelation in the knowledge of HIM..." - Eph. 1:17
--and--
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit [be] with YOU... Amen." - 2 Cor. 13:14