Homer said:
"How much was he involved with this organization is still unclear, although there was a document that was on the net somewhere stating that he was listed as a 33' degree member."
I'm wondering if that was the "Occult Theocracy" book by Lady Queenborough (Edith Starr Miller), written in the very early 1900's?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=occult+theocracy+by+lady+queenborough&aq=1&oq=%22Occult+Theocracy%22
I'm too tired to download it to find out. I've read it before, several years ago, but don't remember for sure. I do remember she discusses either the WT or prior WT presidents, etc.
abbagail
JoinedPosts by abbagail
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Russell Not a Mason!
by johnnyc inthis is some research i did showing that russell, was not, in fact a freemason (aka mason).
it is from the website: .
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry03.html .
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abbagail
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74
"Draw close to God, and he will"....never speak to you.....
by oompa inwell me and bonnzo got to go to a big jw funeral today (oh what fun!
)...in a high school auditorium...so i see bonnzo in the crowd and texted him during the service that i could see him, and i was so hoping he had not put his cell on vibrate, but he had....darn it.
so my mind was wandering, and i have been wondering what it would take for me to get any of my faith back (i'm agnostic now)...and this scripture pops in my head: .
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abbagail
ha, Awakened...
"Personally, I quite enjoy bad-mouthing God. Especially since he isn't man enough to respond."
So you, too, eh?
He doesn't respond because he's turning the other cheek.
Even so...
"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him..." - Matt. 12:32.
I don't think you're going to shake him up too bad over it.
But carry on if it tickles your fancy! -
74
"Draw close to God, and he will"....never speak to you.....
by oompa inwell me and bonnzo got to go to a big jw funeral today (oh what fun!
)...in a high school auditorium...so i see bonnzo in the crowd and texted him during the service that i could see him, and i was so hoping he had not put his cell on vibrate, but he had....darn it.
so my mind was wandering, and i have been wondering what it would take for me to get any of my faith back (i'm agnostic now)...and this scripture pops in my head: .
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abbagail
Awww shucks, Oompa... you sound like a lost soul who needs a hug... hope your wife takes care of that. ;-) wink.
You're welcome for the post, sorry it didn't help much.
I know you analytical types love to rip the Word apart (smile). I never had quite your problem of totally dismissing the written Word altogether, but I did go through a distressing time over all the translations, to the point I didn't even want to read any of them, because I would read articles that, "This one is bad, That one is bad, etc. etc." It finally got to the point that I was downright angry AND frustrated. So one day I went to the bookshelf and grabbed every one of the Bible versions I had, even those big heavy hardback suckers I had from my WT days (Jerusalem Bible, St. Joseph's Catholic Edition -- yes WT used to sell that one, too! -- and the big blue Steven T. Byington one, plus others I accumulated since then) and I stood them all up on the desk. I was mad. I was going to "have it out with God" about all this Bible translations business.
So I then sat in the desk chair, and began poking all those Bibles one at a time with my index finger, while at the same time basically griping to God out loud, "They say THIS ONE has an agenda... and THAT ONE has an agenda... and THIS ONE here has an agenda...." and on down the line until they were all knocked over like dominoes on the top of the desk... ;-) But I wasn't laughing, I was FRUSTRATED supreme, and I began crying and asking God, "So WHAT are we supposed to do down here? Which one is OK?" etc. etc. and I was so exhausted from crying I just sat there and put my head down on the desk, being quiet (like I described earlier, even though I had NOT PLANNED THIS at all... it was my first time actually).... and I wasn't really expecting an answer right then -- I guess He was waiting for me to SHUT UP, ha -- but after a few minutes it came, LOUD AND CLEAR, the Lord spoke from the inside out, from the "Inner Man"-out, and it was a REAL SENTENCE... not just a "feeling," but words that came out of my solar plexus, if you will... He said clear as a bell...
"THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN CUT THROUGH AGENDAS."
Immediately I bolted up straight and was like, OH MY GOD! OF COURSE! That's IT!!!!! Why didn't I think of that???? THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!
Seven little words.. but what a world of difference!
When He talks, you will hear it, and you will KNOW it came from nowhere else but Him. Promise!
From that day on I don't worry about Bible translations. Because GOD CAN USE ANY OF THEM to get His Truth to ANYBODY, no matter how "bad off" the particular translation might be (even like the Message Bible, bleeeh!), and no matter how many "translation errors" any translation might contain, God can use it. He uses imperfect men, doesn't he? So why not imperfect translations?
I mean, think about it. In Africa and places like that, I've heard heart wrenching testimonies of people who walk 15 days one way to get their hands on a Bible. And what if only Message Bibles had been shipped to that area that day? Is God going to "diss" those people because they ended up with a crappy translation? Is He not capable of letting them see truth IN SPITE of what frail, imperfect, or even WICKED men might do to translations? No Way!
Heck, I still use the NWT sometimes, esp. Proverbs and other verses that I LOVED when I first learned them. Is God going to hate me for that? I loved those Proverbs so much when I first learned them all, and if you compare, they really say about the same as other versions.
I also go back and forth between KJV and NKJV, both NT's based on the Received Text, and the KJV OT - -Masoretic Text, and most of NKJV-OT the same with some variation.
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You said, " If God wanted to communicate to man, he would have used the FINGER OF GOD and written to man in a way that no one could ever doubt that the words were indeed from God."
May I propose to you that that is what the Holy Spirit is for? ;-) See above example. His "job title" is TEACHER, Comforter, and GUIDE... so give Him a "job" FOR YOU... ask again and EXPECT to receive this time... ;-)
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"2.Your second point requires faith, and I am low on that and not sure how to get it back."
Hmmm, well......... is there a doctor in the house? Surgical instruments? We have to open up this man and reinsert some FAITH. ;-)
Start SMALL. Not sure what things you have asked for... Big? Little?
Another idea, since you are on "shaky ground" -- Pick out ONE THING you want to know. Don't ask anything else until you get an answer to this ONE thing. It's like learning to ride a tricycle as a kid... take it one step at a time....
The WT basically "stole" the Holy Spirit from us as JWs, so we never really got much, if any, experience or practice with how He works, so give Him a chance.
And don't feel too bad about losing faith. Happens every day... Life stinks. You think Jesus didn't lose some faith in the Garden or on the cross? He as much as said so! Being in the flesh is a real drag!
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If you have Bible doubts, be honest, tell Him so. Tell him, "Lord, I am extremely estranged from you, but I would like not to be. I feel lost, no anchor, no faith, losing hope, feel like I can't trust any Bible versions... (or whatever else you feel)." Say, "Will you please SHOW ME THE WAY..."
And if you're up for it, go ahead and start fresh, as if you just found a "real" Christian tract in the post office or somewhere. Say the sinner's prayer, start over, admit you are a sinner, in need of a Savior, cannot save yourself through works or any good deeds whatsoever, or no amount of book reading or trying to figure things out on your own; tell Him the Watchtower screwed up your mind, your motivation, you desire to seek Him (or whatever it was that got you in that frame of mind); if you're mad at Him for not answering your years of prayers, tell Him so, he knows anyway ;-) Tell Him you feel very hurt over that, but that you want Him to be your friend again, and you would like to accept the FREE GIFT of salvation via the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross, and that he was buried, and rose again the third day, and that he ALREADY PAID for **ALL** your sins--- PAST -- PRESENT -- FUTURE." <<something the WT never told us! they want you to remain forever UNSURE about your salvation, whether you will ever make it or not, be worthy enough or not, etc. "But for those who are in Christ, there is now NO CONDEMNATION..." - Roms. 8:1. Once you are His, you are eternally secure (we may lose rewards if we backslide, etc., but we cannot lose our salvation). -- Ask Him to be your Savior and become Lord of your life, and turn your life over to Him. In Jesus' Name, Amen.
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Don't expect the sky to fall. It is a FAITH thing. The first Christian tract I ever found (not a JW tract) back in the 1970s, said if I said the sinner's prayer, I would become a "new creation." Sometimes tracts are too short to explain, but that sent me off thinking if I said the prayer, I would immediately change and become a different person. lol. Not so. So I was disappointed, felt rejected actually, because I didn't even understand what it meant. I made up my own ideas of what it meant. But being saved IS instant, but SANCTIFICATION takes TIME, the entire time you will be alive or until He comes for us, the Lord will be working on sanctifying you to His image ("...being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete [it] until the day of Jesus Christ..." - Phil. 1:6). <<< Side Note: Notice there is a "Day of Jesus Christ" vs. the "Day of the LORD." Two different "days." The first is when the Lord comes in the air to call up his Saints/Body/Bride, the latter is more commonly referred to as Armageddon. So which do you want to be part of? ;-)
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Nobody becomes "perfect" as long as we are still in our UNredeemed BODIES. Our spirit is redeemed at the instant of salvation (see above), but not our flesh, not yet, not until the Lord "catches us away" to be with Him forever (1 Thess. 4:16,17; 1 Cor. 15:42-58... we will have a body like His, a spirit/flesh-combo, made of flesh and bone, but not blood, incorruptible, immortal).
To try to put it more simply... when we are saved, we are saved POSITIONALLY in Christ. We are:
1. Crucified -- with him in his death, we are no longer our own, we belong to Him
2. Buried -- with him as far as our old Adamic sin nature (spiritually wise)
3. Raised -- with him to our new free-from-condemnation-for-sin (spiritually wise)
4. Ascended -- with him to the heavenlies (we are sealed for that, at salvation, but it will take place in the future)
5. Seated -- with him at the right hand of God (our place there is set at time of salvation, it cannot be removed)
All of that takes place POSITIONALLY at the time of Salvation.
These are called the Positional Truths.
Visit this page, love how they showed this: http://www.withchrist.org/
Once inside -- love that too! -- read this article, excellent: The New Birth Explained: http://withChrist.org/MJS/newbirth.htm
Sure wish I'd known these things in 1970s! Would have saved me 11 years in the WT!
But then I wouldn't be here talking to you now, would I?
;-)
All things work together for the good of those who love God and who are called according to His purpose...
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(That was just some ideas from what you have written... but I'm sure you have plenty of your OWN thoughts and feelings... Type or write them out in a prayer if you like. He CAN READ, too, you know. ;-)
I heard one guy say he types out his prayers every morning at his computer during his devotion time because it is easier that way for him to keep track of when/how God answers them. I liked that idea, too. ;-)
Other people keep Prayer Journals for the same purpose... "This date I asked this.. And God answered this way on this date..." etc. (I never could keep up with those, I have started them but I am too scattered brained. Probably all the more I SHOULD use one. ;-/ ) The purpose is so you can go back and relive how God has helped you/replied/answered. It builds our faith and love for Him, not just so we can keep tabs on God to give him a "grade" on how He's doing. ;-)
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And if you want an extra pound of help, call a prayer line! Yes, something totally foreign to JWs. But why not? It really DOES help to have others praying for you. I like the folks at Bob Rodgers church/Evangel World Prayer Center. You can call or write them a prayer request online. They will pray over it for 30 days every day --OR-- until you get an answer! I like that! I really like Bob Rodgers!
From their site:
http://www.worldprayercenter.org/index.php?option=com_facileforms&Itemid=72
[...]
Pastor Rodgers' commitment is to pray for each prayer request for 30 days and to place them in the prayer chapel, without your contact information, to be prayed for on a continual basis until the Lord answers your prayers. We will not make your information available to anyone else. Our prayer is that the Lord richly bless you and meet every need according to His riches in Glory through Christ Jesus.
[...]
If you're in dire straits, you can call and talk to them, and/or leave a message after hours for prayer request: 1-502-962-9650 (I had that in my cell, haven't needed to call them lately, but I did last time was in January when the apt. corporate owners were haggling me for several months about the lease, because the local mgr. said I could do a 6 month lease since I was moving in the Spring, but the corp. guys up in NJ were trying to force me to sign a year lease, etc. Long Story, but it was coming down to the nitty gritty and I called Bob Rodgers' prayer line after hours and left a frantic message as I thought, "What, am I going to have to get a lawyer over these corp. guys not holding up what the local mgr said?" etc. etc. That was early early early one Friday, during the night actually, that I left them the message on their voicemail. And on Monday, the local mgr. just showed up at my door, unannounced and unexpected, and she said, "Can we PLEASE take care of this between us? The corp guys said they will do whatever you want...!" I was AGHAST! WOW! Talk about getting FAST answers to prayers! I said, You Betcha, I will be leaving end of April, so that is a 4-month lease, but at the 12-month price! She agreed to it all, got the OK from the big guys, did the papers, came back 2 hours later and ALL WAS WELL. I called my Mother, and she was flabberghasted. I told her I called a prayer line, and God came to the rescue JUST IN THE KNICK OF TIME. (He has a habit of doing things at the last minute... He likes for EVERYBODY TO KNOW that NOBODY ELSE could have fixed the problem but Him. That's what Praise is all about! ;-)
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Anyway, I hope the Bob Rodgers' phone # still works if you need it. Or start collecting your own prayer line #'s from ministries you may find you like and appreciate, or from a sermon on TV you especially like, etc. I keep several in my cell. Another great guy is DJ Meyer of Last Trumpet Ministries, he's a pastor of Truth Tabernacle up in Michigan. They also say...
Prayer Requests
Remember to send your prayer requests as they will be individually taken to the throne of God by our prayer teams.
Email: [email protected]
Newsletters: http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/
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And when the Lord answers you, be sure to send a "thank you" email to those who prayed for/with you for your needs... they call it a "Praise Report." ;-)
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Oompa said:
"I only believe that there had to be a designer...a creator of all this incredible world and universe."
Well, my friend, you are at least ONE BIG STEP WAY AHEAD of several million, if not several billion people on the planet!
Don't you feel better already? ;-)
Seeeeeeeeeeeee, you haven't lost ALL of your faith, afterall!
And that means you are none too dense either, since God says it is **clearly evident** from the world's creation onward that He is visible from the things He made.... ;-)
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Oompa:
"Since I am spoken about here in James as a doubter, he makes it very clear that i will not receive anything from God:
(James1:6-8)6 But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah;8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."
Yeah, but you gotta start somewhere buddy!
I've heard ooodles of testimonies where people who had no idea if God even existed, and without a Christian tract or anything, they would merely say, "Jesus, if you really exist, if you are really out there, please show me..." -- or "... please help me..." and they have been answered.
Maybe your brains are getting in the way? ;-)
I have no idea if this is accurate... but it seems maybe you dug yourself in a hole... maybe for a time you WANTED NOT to believe, so you kept on at it, until you got yourself in a hole, sort of painted yourself in a corner.
Either way, tell the Lord you desperately need His mercy and grace because you are just flat out feeling lost and corn-fused, and you are sick to death of it, and you really really really need some guidance el pronto before your heart of hearts just gives out completely in despair. (IF that's how you feel, of course... not trying to put words in your mouth or heart).
But then I would suggest you may want to stop looking for reasons NOT TO BELIEVE, and switch gears, do a 180-degrees turn around on that frame of mind, and go in the Opposite Direction and look for reasons TO BELIEVE.
The thing about the Lord, he is a Gentleman, and he will not impose himself on anyone, nor on your free will to choose your own belief system. If you do NOT want to believe, then he won't try to make you either.
But if you WANT to believe, then ask for help -- yes, I know, ask AGAIN!!! -- and I say get those 30-days-or-more prayer warriors on your side for starters, as a boost... they can get results on your behalf if you are stuck in the corner of doubt and indecision... but be honest with them of where you are at, lest how can they pray accurately on your behalf?
No sense beating around the bush at this late date... ;-)
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Oompa:
"And I fill another niche in the Bible: (2Thessalonians3:2) . . .for faith is not a possession of all people. . ."
Ehhh, only if you don't want it to be your possession.
Besides, you took that out of context. Read the whole thing...
2 Thessalonians 3:1: "Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may run [swiftly] and be glorified, just as [it is] with you, 2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for not all have faith."
Paul is talking about being delivered from UNREASONABLE and WICKED MEN who do not have faith. Are you unreasonable and wicked? I don't think so, or you wouldn't even be agonizing over these things. ;-) So that settles that! ;-)
I propose God HAS given you a "MEASURE OF FAITH" (Rom. 12:3) but it is up to us to "grow it" by growing in getting to know Him personally, exercising it, stretching it, expanding it, etc.
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Oompa said...
[3. Practice hearing..] "now this intrigued me. I envision myself deep underground in a hollowed out salt mine. There are no sounds at all. So I sit there quietly and practice hearing. After months of this I am now not even sure if I can hear anymore or what hearing is....because unless a sound is made you CAN"T hear anything. So clap my hands once every few months jst to remind myself what hearing is. We need SOUNDS to practice hearing don't we?"
Ha! Your picture-story cracked me up. Can a blind man know he is blind? lol. Can a deaf man know he is deaf?
Maybe "practice" wasn't the right word. How about, just be "available to hear" -- be "aware that you CAN hear"... For instance, you might do a little Bible reading, say/or write out a prayer or two expressing what you are feeling frustrated over at that very instance, and now you don't want to just sit in the salt mine and wait. So tell the Lord, I'm going to go mow the lawn as it is relaxing to me (or take a walk, ride bike, or whatever is relaxing emotionally), and ask him to COME ALONG WITH YOU AS YOU GO, as you are STILL listening. Sometimes He'll just answer a little bit LATER after you think He has totally forgotten you.
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Oompa said...
"4. Yes...I am very anlytical. The logical Spock was my hero on Star Trek. This is probably why is started having doubts about my JW religion starting at 19, and they increased over the years until I proved to myself it was also a false religion."
Well, you did GOOD on that one. WT is a false religion on the basic doctrines of Christianity (Deity of Christ, Triune God, heavenly hope for believers, etc. etc.)
But just FORGET about "religions" in general. Your "new" pursuit -- should you decide to accept it -- is not to figure out "religions," but to seek and find a personal intimacy with Christ.
Follow Paul's example... After the Lord appeared to him (can you be any worse than he was? ;-) , and after Paul was led on to Damascus, Ananias came to him, etc. etc. Paul stuck around for a short while, but after that he went into the Arabian desert for three years and spent that time w/the Lord.
Many people when they get saved, they don't go run and join a church, but they just spend a year or so in the Bible and let the Lord show them what He wants for them, the way the Lord showed Paul once he quit trying to convert the Jews immediately, which only got him in trouble. lol.
I heard one may say he read the Bible 25 times in his first year w/the Lord. I was like, WOW. I don't think I could even pull that off.
I wish I had known that when I first got saved, though... I never would have gone and sought out the JWs who had given me that Bible two years earlier... I didn't know it was OKAY to NOT go join a religion.
Once you have a clear understanding of your position in Christ, and at the least a general idea of what he would like for your life, THEN it is a good thing to fellowship with like minded believers. But that could be anything from a Home church to a Mega church. Ask him to show you WHERE in his entire Body of Christians he wants to set you. And then go with the flow... (the flow meaning learning to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit).
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Oompa said...
"And Abbagail...thank you for your prayers...really. Because I am pretty sure God has not listened to my prayers....thousands of them...nor has he ever answered one.....so if one of yours gets through and gets the job done for me....that would be really nice.....................................................oompa"
That breaks my heart... can't for the life of me figure out what the problem is... I KNOW He answers prayers, and it's not really like Him to ignore those who ask/seek of Him. All I can figure is there might be something in the way... like maybe you keep writing and saying he won't answer...
Try this: For ONE WEEK, or better, ONE MONTH -- NEVER SAY IT AGAIN, in word or print. Not here, not at home, not anywhere.
Instead, say this every time your brain wants to say the opposite, instead say this:
"I KNOW THAT YOU ALWAYS HEAR ME..." (compare John 11:42).
And say it out loud. Shout if you have to. Say it. Believe it. Even if that's all you can muster for now.
(I think you have convinced yourself for so long that He won't... that painted-corner again... let's get you out of that dang corner, you little hard-headed booger! ... ;-)
And don't cuss Him out if He waits to see if you are sincere and serious this time around... ;-)
And yes, between me, and if you call in the troops -- get a whole crew of prayer warriors on your side as well -- the gates of hell cannot prevail over our Oompa at JWD.... ;-)
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BTW, I like how you answer A-B-C-D, 1-2-3-4. ;-)
Very organized and systematic.
I like that, too!
Believe it or not, God CAN use analytical people... (oh no, here comes another story from me...)
There is a preacher on the tube, I like him because he is very forthright, downright bombastic if you will, doesn't beat around the bush, etc. And from that I always figured, "I bet he's an organized freak, perfectionistic as well... detailed...." etc. I never knew for sure until I heard his wife give a testimony, lol. It went like this...
For years she prayed and complained to the Lord, "Please CHANGE him. Why does he HAVE to be THAT way. Make him more mild, less rigid, more relaxed, more easy going..." etc. etc. On and on she prayed year after year to no avail.
Finally she said the Lord spoke to her and said, "QUIT asking me to CHANGE him. I need him and can use him Just the way He is!"
Oh boy, she said she shut up in a hurry. lol.
For all you know, God can use your analytical brain to debate with other analytical brains. I mean, who else?
But first you have to come back to His side of the fence. ;-)
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Do you consider yourself agnostic by now?
You might like this: The Impossibility of Agnosticism:
http://withchrist.org/Impossibility%20of%20Agnosticism.pdf
It's from one of the sites I already mentioned further above (in the "positional truths" section).
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OK, novel comes to an end.
Hope something/anything helps!
"I K-N-O-W THAT YOU A-L-W-A-Y-S HEAR ME!"
And don't you forget it!
;-)
Peace and Blessings, Mr. O.
/ag -
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How To Get Fired as Congregation Secretary!
by metatron invery simple, really.
say that witnesses are responsible adults and as such, need to turn in their field service reports on time without a lot of reminders.. don't check up on them by phone asking 'where's your time this month?'.
i know that doing things like this can get you canned as secretary.
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abbagail
They really should just QUIT the whole numbers game! Sounds like all it causes is pressure and deceipt.
Sort of like required-tithing in other churches... once the pastors wake up to Paul's words that they should give "nothing out of necessity" (as I heard one testimony), and it was announced to the church members, they actually gave more after that out of FREEDOM and not PRESSURE.
WT ought to try it. The JWs might like it.
But I guess fear rules in WT Land.
/ag -
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I thought NOBODY would ever rebuild or live in Babylon?....but.....
by oompa incheck the last city here....i googled "babylon, iraq population'....and other things on the city, and one archaeological site wrote that many archaeologists urged sadam to not build and grow modern babylon directly over many of the old ruins....but he did it anyway.
i saw a news item about their new mayor!.....jw's used to say this could never ever happen.
is this indeed basically the same city?....only 90 miles south of baghdad?...................oompa.
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abbagail
As for Babylon never being rebuilt: The Isaiah scriptures, chapter 13, verses 19,20, re: Babylon never being inhabited, if you read it in context from chapter 13, verse 1, all the way through verse 22, you'll see that prophecy is talking about the "DAY OF THE LORD," ie, when God pours out his Wrath during the 2nd half of the Tribulation (the very end battle is what is called Armageddon to take place in the Valley of Jezreel, or Megiddo). It will be AFTER THAT TIME, after the "Day of the LORD" that Babylon will not be rebuilt or inhabited.
Good idea not to use the WT as your sole source of prophectic info! ;-D
Try this instead:
Quote: http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/523/
[...]
Many Bible handbooks, dictionaries, and commentaries give you the impression that Babylon was "destroyed" in 539 B.C. But it is important to realize that when Cyrus the Great captured Babylon he was able to take it over without a battle . In fact, this feat is celebrated in the famed Cylinder of Cyrus that is featured in the British Museum in London (see photo http://www.khouse.org/images/artpics/celecyrus_500x276.jpg ).
Babylon served as a secondary capital of the Persian Empire for two centuries until Alexander the Great conquered the Persians in 325 B.C. He made it his capital; in fact, he died there.
Four of his generals then divided up the empire, and subsequently Babylon gradually atrophied over the centuries. Yet, when Robert Koldewey, the German archaeologist, excavated it at the end of the 19th century, he was able to hire local residents to assist him.
[...]
End Quote.
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Great info, though. No shortage of humans in the area from your list. I had heard this past summer that Babylon was only something like 56-57 miles south of Baghdad, and that if it was a nothing place, why was some special fancy underground wiring being installed there (say, vs. Baghdad where the new USA colossal Embassy is?) I don't remember the type of wiring, but heard it in a talk by some prophecy guys last summer, who supposedly have defense contacts, etc.: http://www.torrentz.com/c3f250d853f2d43fab091326dfc35974003cb6a5
As for the actual distance, I just found this at the Jewish Encyclopedia:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=B&artid=51
[...]
The ruins which have been identified with ancient Babylon lie about 50 miles south of the city of Bagdad and on the east bank of the Euphrates. They are located between 44° and 45° east longitude, and between 32° and 33° north latitude, and extend over five miles from north to south.
[...]
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Re: Babylon on the banks of the Euphrates River... The Int'l Herald Tribune reported back in 2006:
UNESCO intends to put the magic back in Babylon
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/13/news/babylon.php
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And with Baghdad only a hop-skip-and-jump to Babylon, why is the USA building their largest-in-the-world embassy there? News reports from 2006 about that:
USA Today:
Giant U.S. embassy rising in Baghdad
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-04-19-us-embassy_x.htm
THE SITE HAS 21 STRUCTURES
The 104-acre complex — the size of about 80 football fields...
The massive new embassy, being built on the banks of the Tigris River, is designed to be entirely self-sufficient...
New U.S. Embassy in Iraq cloaked in mystery
Baghdad locale, slated to be completed in 2007, to be largest of its kind in the world, the size of Vatican City, with the population of a small town, its own defense force, self-contained power and water...
That embassy will be six times larger than the UN compound in New York, and two-thirds the acreage of Washington’s National Mall.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/
One more hole to throw the USA's money into... ;-/
U.S. Embassy in Baghdad Not Yet Finished But Ready to Grow
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277953,00.html
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2004/03/the-largest-embassy-ever-run-by-any-country.html
Apr. 15, 2008 update: After all the cost overrides, the delays, and the sub-standard work, the U.S. government took ownership of its new Baghdad embassy yesterday. The "certificate of occupancy" gives it the right to leave the Saddam Hussein palace it has been using and occupy the 27 buildings within the Green Zone, a move expected in late May or early June.
Apr. 25, 2008 update: It may have cost over US$700 million but the new embassy complex "does not have enough fortified living quarters for hundreds of diplomats and other workers, who must remain temporarily in trailers without special rooftop protection against mortars and rockets" writes Bradley Brooks in an Associated Press investigation. To make matters worse, the personnel might not move in until 2009.
[...]
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Babylon was the spot for the original rebellion by the first wanna-be world dictator, Nimrod and his Tower of Babel. Confusion then, and confusion will reign there in the future. Ordo Ab Chao.
Babylon was the seat of the Ancient Mystery Religions ... think: MYSTERY BABYLON in Revelation. It has been said the Bible interprets itself. If so, it would seem plausible that Babylon HAS TO BE REBUILT and will no doubt have a part to play in the Luciferian Mysteries being reestablished -- out in the wide open -- during the Trib.
/ag -
12
My Wife goes back to Meetings after a year....but I just can't stomach it!
by Witness 007 ineverywhere i go latley we meet damn witnesses!
the cinema watching quantum of solice full of witnesses...mcdonalds having a coffee...witnesses!
and the "love bombing" starts.
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abbagail
Not married so cannot say for sure, but gut instinct says,
"Honey, you know how much I love you and would support you in most anything, but this going to the KH affects ME so badly, in an unhealthy way, mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally... because I just KNOW TOO MUCH by now.... Isn't there a way we can compromise on this? How about if I drive you and pick you up instead. Would that be okay? Would you please consider it?"
etc. As I said, sorry, I don't know, but I wouldn't be able to go just for the PRINCIPLE of the thing. -
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How To Get Fired as Congregation Secretary!
by metatron invery simple, really.
say that witnesses are responsible adults and as such, need to turn in their field service reports on time without a lot of reminders.. don't check up on them by phone asking 'where's your time this month?'.
i know that doing things like this can get you canned as secretary.
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abbagail
ha! I can't imagine someone hounding me to do something I already knew I "had to" do (back in JW Land, that is).
It would irk me to have someone calling me about it.
But I learned something from your post... so that's how they added an hour here and there for Sis So-and-So, or Bro-No-and-No... via the Cong Secy calling and applying a little Theocratic pressure for them to fudge an hour or so...
"Well, yes, you're right, brother, I guess I did speak to that lady in the grocery line the other day... Thank you for reminding me... So, will 10 minutes suffice for this month?"
;-D -
22
401K, do you still have one?
by DJK inseveral years ago i considered starting one.
didn't understand it at all.
the hr dept where i work had closed and to start a 401k i had to do it online.
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abbagail
As for retirement accounts, The August Review posted an article about this back on November 7, 2008, which is where I first heard this...
DEMS TARGET PRIVATE RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS
http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/economy/dems_target_private_retirement_accounts_20081107104/
That article was originally posted in the Carolina Journal Online on November 4th:
Carolina Journal Exclusives
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
Democratic leaders in the U.S. House discuss confiscating 401(k)s, IRAs
http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/dems-target-private-retirement-accounts.html
Prison Planet got wind of it and also did an article on November 11th:
Government To Confiscate 401(k)s and IRAs For Mandatory Savings Tax?
Proposals to implement additional form of income tax while seizing private pensions raised in Congress
http://www.prisonplanet.com/government-to-confiscate-401ks-and-iras-for-mandatory-savings-tax.html
Also posted in the Right Side News Editorial Archives:
Democrats Target 401k and IRA Retirement Accounts
November 10, 2008
By Karen McMahan
http://www.rightsidenews.com/200811082544/editorial/democrats-target-401k-and-ira-retirement-accounts.html
So far it is only "discussions" but it pays to keep an eye on these buzzards in Congress.
/ag -
22
401K, do you still have one?
by DJK inseveral years ago i considered starting one.
didn't understand it at all.
the hr dept where i work had closed and to start a 401k i had to do it online.
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abbagail
Jaguarbass:
"That would be the time to go to cash, gold, war stocks, like Halburton and energy stocks."
That's what I've heard as well, precious metals, and if you must buy stocks, Defense and Energy stocks only.
Also, real estate -- agricultural -- so you can go live on the land if you ever have to, and grow your own grub. -
13
COURT RULES VATICAN LIABLE for USA PEDO CASES - Surely WT Nervous Over This
by abbagail inon november 25, 2008, the wall street journal law blog and the wsj both posted articles about this... .
sixth circuit: vatican can be sued for sexual abuse .
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/11/25/sixth-circuit-vatican-can-be-sued-for-sexual-abuse/.
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abbagail
Wow, good for SNAP, they have been working overtime!
Since the RCC is such a bigger fish than the WT, always good to get the big fish first, and all the little fishies will likely be just as exposed in due time.
And yes, the pervs are everywhere!
