Posts by abbagail

6

Romans 13

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

13:1 everyone [including brooklyn and elders] must submit himself to the governing authorities, .

rom 13:3-5. do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority?

5 therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.. .

I'm with Pomegranate on this one. Between the first post and the last, I was already thinking that the Corinthians scripture had to do with the trivial stuff of life, that CAN get out of hand if people are not being reasonable (example: modern day talk shows, Jerry Springer, Judge Judy - how foolish do 99% of those people look for going to court over trivial stuff? How much moreso should Christians feel foolish for doing so. I think that was Paul's point in Corinthians.)

However, Romans 13 is quite compelling in his clarity and seems to be talking about more serious matters. God's Avengers for those doing wrong. Thanks for writing it all out for us, Pomegranate. Earlier tonight I was thinking about that same exact scripture when reading other threads on the Two Witnesses Rule and Deut.19:15 and Mt. 18:16, and I was thinking this same thing, i.e., why does the WTS not consider Romans 13??? (Ooops! I already know the answer: Because they say the Two Witnesses Rule applies to the spiritual situation in the cong, whereas Romans deals with non-spiritual situations outside of the cong).

Thanks cruzanheart for sharing your enthusiasm over your bible studies. It's true I don't always think in terms of "back then" when reading the scriptures. A 'fun" thing I've done a few times the past few days which really makes the scriptures "hit home," is take these scriptures applicable to the scandals and inserting the modern-day GB in appropriate places and then read it like that, and see how it looks/feels/sounds (such as Daniel's handwriting on the wall; and Ezekiel's man with the inkhorn and the other men with the clubs who do the killing; and Jesus' "mercy and not sacrifice" message along with his supposedly 2-witness rule (which the WTS says) re: child abuse.)

Getting too tired. Time for bed. Night all.

GRITS

75

1000 asked to leave Brooklyn Bethel!

by cyberguy in

jw
friends

1000 were asked to leave brooklyn bethel (actually, this includes the farm and patterson) "voluntarily!

" only 6 replied to the request in the last 3 weeks.

it looks like the "waters" of bethel are drying up, or rather, their revenues are drying up!

abbagail

I had remembered hearing this before, but couldn't remember where, then found this link in my folder. Short-term memory loss because, come to find out, this below thread was around mid-June, a mere month ago:

What's the deal with not needing Bethelites? Read 957 times. Interesting comments there, too:
< http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=30387&page=1&site=3#393269>;

Maybe there were prior threads last Sept.? Anybody do a "search" yet to see?

I wrote MORE in this post, and after posting, half of it disappeared. How does that happen? Arrrgggh!

Scumrat, your post was hysterical (funny) about the $$$$.

Kat's comments were good, too, about feeling bad for those who would have to go. I mean, only SIX out of 5000+ volunteered to leave? That's some loyalty right there. -- Also, I very much wanted to go to Bethel when younger and first studying. In my innocence I actually wrote them a letter and asked if I could go there to work and live. Of course they wrote back a nice letter, and basically said, "That ain't how it works dearie..." ;) -- Reality was I would never have been able to keep up the pace physically, and I always hated getting up early. :)

Cyberguy wrote: "Foreign branches (including Hawaii) were told to make similar reductions a year ago and have reduced staff by 30% or more in some cases."

Can't remember where I saw it, I'm thinking it had to have been at Watchtower Observer, all those WTS letters Kent has posted over there. It was a letter from WTS to the INDIA BRANCH OFFICE telling them they had to downsize, and lay off some special pioneers, and that NO MORE $$ would be forthcoming from HQ. I felt really sad for the Indians, and how they must have felt getting a letter like that. It must have felt like getting kicked in the stomach. If I get the motivation, I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

GRITS

Edited by - grits on 17 July 2002 6:44:25

39

For the new ones to this site....

by Mimilly in

jw
friends

i've noticed many new ones to our lil community here and have been unable to welcome you all personally.

there is a great variety of people here and loads of information and support.

feel free to vent!

abbagail

Nice idea for a thread, Mimilly, and thanks, I'm a fairly new newbie. Thanks to the others for their greetings also. I could relate to your comment:

I found this site after being isolated socially for ten years after the Borg. It has become very much a home for me.

Make that 12 years for yours truly, and ever since Dateline aired, I've been here quite frequently, many times too tired to post, but always reading. Admittedly, I did run across some threads earlier on that upset me, too much jumping down the throat of seemingly innocent posters, who were, as you say, run off by (to me) shockingly unnecessary attacks. So I would withdraw and be turned off, and avoid the site for awhile. Then when all my regular emails are read, and a few other sites visited (SL is on my daily rounds of sites, too), I would find myself back here 'cuz it's "Open 24 Hours" with a never-ending supply of threads, old and new, to keep my brain occupied.

Does everybody have DSL so the thread pages flip over faster? I find it pretty time-consuming to try to even add a brief comment to all the posts I read and would like to reply to. I'm still on dial-up. Slow Slow.

Also, while I'm at it, I have wondered if there is a Newbie Education Page, with instructions on how to do things. For instance, where does everybody get their pictures and/or art clips from for their ID pics? And how do you put it next to your ID?

And, are those pictures REALLY you guys? Like LB (I think) and some of the other guys and all the ladies... are those your real pics? Of course, I realize some of them are NOT, like that Mike Musto, that's not really a pic of him is it, with the red shirt that everybody makes fun of? (Red happens to be one of my favorite colors, btw). ;) Whose pics are real and whose aren't and how would one know? ;)

Personally, I've never had a "hate relationship" with the org. My 11 years there were all good, no problems. Didn't leave it because of doctrine or mistreatment or anything like that. I have always felt a fondness for (and guilt for being away from) the WTS/JWs. However, if I'm not careful, you guys may make an Official Apostate outta me yet... ;) (in the sense of still feeling "emotionally attached" to the WTS). I notice in my posts of late, I'm beginning to sound like the rest of yooz guys. Sometimes I think I have two personalities, back and forth, on how I feel about it. Anybody know what I mean?

Well, that's all for now, and thanks again!

GRITS

15

Scottish News Panorama

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

church at centre of paedophile allegations

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=62692&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=62244&contentpk=2125157

claire stewart

abbagail

Excellent observations, Fe203Girl! I especially liked this, since I too had read the outraged-JW comments:

Intereresting that the reason that they would not contribute is that current JW's were involved. That contradicts what outraged JW's have been posting on the BBC message board about the programme being full of nasty evil bitter twisted apostates.

Also profound was your comment:

I still don't hear any denial of any point raised by the Panorama programme, but the admission that the cases that were featured were ones that should have been handled differently.

Lastly, love the humor!

I also see that elders are now counceled to report allegations made to the proper authorities - this does not specify law enforcement authorities though......maybe it means the CO?

GRITS

8

ACTIVE ELDERS PLEASE READ!

by lisaBObeesa in

jw
friends

here are some questions for the honest and good elders in the congregation of jehovahs witnesses:

#1. when a member of your congregation asks you if it is true that victims of pedophiles where/are often not encouraged by elders to go to the police, or where told to stay quiet because they have/had no second witness, will you tell the truth?

#2 when you hear members of the congregation attack the victims who spoke out on dateline and panoramavictims who did nothing wrong and whose lives where destroyed by evil menwhen you hear members of the congregation attack those victims, what will you do?

abbagail

Let's keep this one at the top, BTTT! I'm not an elder either, not even a JW anymore, but I appreciated the anniversary post of silentlambs.

Hope all you elder types can help silentlambs, and if you ever need any assistance with your typing in my state, I'm still ready, willing, able. It's not much but it's the best I can offer, as a former legal sec'y.

GRITS

1

Real Reason For WT articles on Abuse....

by ISP in

the real reason for printing these articles by the wts was to control the burgeoning abuse within the organisation they were starting to become aware of.

i wonder how many of the quotes were from people abused by fellow jws?

they told me to forget about it, she reports.

abbagail

Thanks for the reminder, ISP. I sooooo DO remember that '83 magazine.

I also sooooo DO remember the '94 comment that it was the LARGEST READER RESPONSE ever. Good question you posed as to whether that was because so many JWs have been abused in the congs.

Also, I like how you put in BOLD at the top that in that entire '83 article there is NOTHING saying GO TO THE POLICE.

Thanks!
GRITS

PS: What is the exact list of articles they have ever printed on the subject, by year:

1983, Watchtower, 10/1/83

1994, Watchtower, 1/1/94

and ???

10/8/91 is the Awake about child abuse which they NEVER MENTION anymore: "Healing the Wounds of Child Abuse," pages 3-11.

and what others?

3

Deuteronomy 19:15 and Child Abuse Issue

by stevieb1 in

in the nwt this verse reads: .

"no single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin, in the case of any sin that he may commit.

at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.

abbagail

I was wishing for the same exact thing tonight... I have been searching and clicking for awhile now at this site, because there are too many threads on the same topic spread about, with a comment here, a comment there...

It would be nice if all the discussion on this Two Witness Rule was put in the SAME PLACE. I don't know about you guys, but I've got a slow computer/dial-up modem, and it just takes forever for each page to turn over, each new thread, etc. looking for the best arguments against this WT logic.

I hope everyone rallies to this thread and either cuts/pastes from their thoughts from other threads or post again their thoughts, opinions on this, because I also would like to see some compact, clearly -spelled-out reasoning on this in order to post it to the Silent Lambs Guestbook in rebuttal of all the BLIND JW's who keep posting ignoramus remarks there.

C' mon people, will ya help us out? I'm pooped and still haven't found those good arguments on the 2 Witness Rule which I read somewhere else that they DO EXIST at this forum.. somewhere!

Many Thanks!
GRITS

30

Watchtower Aug 1st gives out conflicting signals

by ozziepost in

heard the expression "having a bet each way"?

you know how it goes, someone doesn't want to give offense or get "offside" with readers, colleagues etc so they try and agree with two conflicting arguments simultaneously.

the watchtower wouldn't do that, would it?

abbagail

LOL! to Blondie who said: Obviously, women don't play sports since they are all in skirts.

and LOL again to ozziepost (who provided us with this WT-contradictory enlightment, thanks) and who said: I hope those kids don't play near the water!

You guys are cracking me up!

Those pics from the literature are too good.

I surely do wonder if I would have noticed any of these things while still a JW.

One thing I know, speaking of playing sports with worldlies and competitiveness: When a JW I took tennis lessons for one week, from a private instructor. But after that I had nobody to practice-play with! I was so frustrated and even angry about it sometimes, so I would go hit the tennis balls up against the wall for practice - all alone - woe is me. :( While hitting balls on the wall, I would see all the other "worldly" people on the courts, and so many times THOUGHT ABOUT asking others to play, but NO NO NO, I wouldn't DARE as they were "worldly."

Eventually learned a sis in the hall used to play, and she was willing to play again, so we did, and it was great while it lasted (she was married, had the kids, husband an elder, busy busy busy busy, so my "recreation" always depended on HER availability). Anyway, she also was EXTREMELY competitive. I was out there to play "just for fun." Strategy was the farthest thing from my mind. I was happy merely to keep the ball volleying (sp?) back and forth. But this sis was out for blood! and she didn't mind saying so either. Needless to say, she kept me running.... picking up balls mostly.... :)

So much for my JW tennis career. Serena I am not... ;)

GRITS

17

Lettermen just pounded the JWs again!!!!!

by gambler in

david lettermen just crushed the jws again in tonights monolog.

he said "are you tiered of all the religious sex scandals, now the jahovahs witnesses have a sex scandal, they group you then they leave you a pamphlet.then they went to court today but no one answered the door".

abbagail

Hey thanks gambler for letting us know that...because I WONDERED last night if Letterman would get more mileage out of the sex abuse scandal, and bring it up for several nights. I didn't think to set the VCR while I am here at the computer!

GRITS

44

JARACZ: What Did He Really Mean?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

bp: tell me about the database.

how do you justify keeping a list of paedophiles, men in some cases who have confessed to paedophilia but you have not reported them to an authority.

what justification is there for you to keep that?

abbagail

"Focusing on numbers isn't meaningful" they said.Did anyone else notice this rediculous statement?

Absolutely! It jumped out at me like a BOMB!!!! And my Translation:

"Focusing on VICTIMS isn't meaningful."

GRITS