draffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
Way To Go, Lieu!! Right On! (Did they DF/DA you anyway?)
Lieu said to invoke Acts 5:29: "WE MUST OBEY GOD AS RULER RATHER THAN MEN."
Also, "YOU YOURSELVES SAID IT."
I think these are VALID ARGUMENTS. However, I'm sure the JC would take them as acts of sarcasm or disrespect, even though they are straight from the Bible.
draffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
I know government agencies have Whistleblower Protection Clauses for employees and such, but is there any type of Whistleblower Protection Laws in OTHER areas of life, such as this?
draffenville
congregation
of jehovah's witnesses
SO MANY EXCELLENT suggestions and comments and ideas to think about! All you folks have GREAT BRAINS!!!
You know the saying, 'Know your enemy..." It sure pays to have the backup and brains of all these former JWs who many have been thru the same thing. (I USED TO believe the GB were innocent and naive, like that scripture at Luke 16:8 they would use to convince us. However, I no longer believe that).
If the lawyers are running the show and this hearing, how could they write such stupid things in the letter (i.e., no witnesses, no lawyers, no tape recording, etc.). Like a few of you have posted, you yourselves were told by attorneys that, yes, no matter what the JC says, attorneys CAN be present. Surely the WTS attorneys would know that, and so why would THEY make such a statement in the letter to Bill?
Could it be that, as I have also heard in the past, that the WTS itself is disengaging itself from the local congregations re: DF'ings and the like, in order to keep the WTS itself from being liable in any way? Therefore, maybe this letter WAS written by the local brothers, and that may account for their stupidity in the letter-??? (just a thought). Because...
Their letter said, "In accordance with the USUAL procedure..." How can they even tell Bill NO WITNESSES when, thanks to Focus who posted the pertinent portions, the "usual procedure" as outlined in the elder book plainly states you CAN have witnesses? It would seem to me that that statement right there in their letter would VOID the entire process.
That remark about respecting the elder chairing the committee... that's about the most sorry thing I'd ever heard, as if grown men need to even say such things to each other. (Sounds like they are expecting some HEATED discussion.)
Re: Not telling you the Charges in advance. I don't see how they can get away with that either.
Dungbeetle (I think) mentioned Bill "cannot get a fair hearing" in his local congregation - that was a good point. Does the WTS/JC make room for Change of Venue options?
The letter also said, "no tape recordings will be allowed at the hearing." It said TAPE recordings, but it said NOTHING ABOUT A COURT REPORTER. (She types on a little machine with PAPER in it, not tape). You should hire a bona fide court reporter to sit in on the proceedings. She is not there as a witness and she is not there as an observer. She is there merely for the purpose of taking down the proceedings.
Also, if the whole DF'ing issue is a soon-to-be (if not already) "slander" issue (Bowen v. WTBTS of NY & PA), then I would think it is ALREADY in the "legal playing-field," and Bill's attorney most likely has these bases covered, his attorney will be present, and they will take a court reporter, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if his attorney already filed suit against the WTBTS & Bill's cong for harrassment and/or slander, etc. on or before the day Bill received the letter from the JC.
This issue reminds me of something my former boss/attorney did: Granted, it was not a religious issue, but just about as "heavy" re: MEDICAL doctors (who all think they are GOD, too, btw): Our clients would be summoned by the respective insurance companies (who we were suing for injuries/damages) to attend IME's (Independent Medical Examinations) by doctors who were then PAID by these insurance companies for performing these so-called "IMPARTIAL" independent medical examinations. (Yeah, right!). My former boss/attorney created a HUGE STINK in this town when he began insisting that COURT REPORTERS be PRESENT in the examining room while the doctor performed the IME on our client. Well, the doctors in town FOUGHT THIS tooth and nail, refusing to allow the court reporters into the examination rooms, even when the patient/client and court reporter had shown up all ready to go. But the doctors would then refuse to perform the examination at all. It was really a HUGE STINK that went on for months and months, but the boss never waivered, and took them all to court about this issue of whether the client/patient has a right to have a court reporter present for these IME's, and he won, and the docs had to give in to the patient's (and the boss') request for a court reporter to be present. --- Ahhhh, those were the days! :-)
Back to Bill's Hearing: It's a crying shame it even has to come to this. It really is. I would be so pleased if the WTS would just come clean, hand over the records to all the congregations and the legal authorities so all the friends and the public would know about the pedophiles. And if our so-called HUMBLE "slave class" would openly apologize to the Lambs, wouldn't that just warm everyone's heart? (I know I know... dreaming here). But, no, it looks like they have dug in their heels and spurs, and there's no turning back.
Therefore, get out your six-shooters and holsters, boys, and FORWARD HO! to the Show-down at High Noon.
Best Wishes & Much Success on whatever strategy you choose, Bill!
GRITS
from: "blkjwmale" < [email protected]>.
date: thu, 18 jul 2002 18:27:35 -0000. to: [email protected].
subject: [let's share jehovah's love] single brother seeks an affectionate sister.
From: "blkjwmale" < [email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:27:35 -0000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Let's Share Jehovah's LOVE] Single Brother seeks an affectionate Sister
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To reply: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letssharejehovahslove/post?act=reply&messageNum=202
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Hello sisters. My name is Dennis and I live in Washington, DC
(United States). I am a 30yo attractive black male, 5'9", 200lbs and
physically fit. I have been baptized since 1991, but feel short in
1995 and was reinstated in 2000. We all make mistakes and I am at
peace with that.
What I enjoy socially is going to the movies, long drives, weekend
getaways, reading and writing (motivation and instructional
material), amusement parks, golfing (full course and miniature), fine
dinning and cooking (Yes, I can cook!)
Now a little about myself;
<div class=quote><b>Like he hasn't talked about himself enough already???</b></div>
I am a very affectionate man who is
unselfish and has no children (I don't mind being involved with a
sister with no more than one child). I work as a legal education
assistant in Washington, DC, but inspire to start my own business
soon. I want to put myself in a financial position to take care of a
wife and children without her having to work. That's right, I don't
mind having a housewife.
What I seek in a potential partner/mate/wife/lover is a woman who is
very affectionate, respects headship, supportive (motivating and
encouraging), simple in her way of dress and appearance. A woman who
wants a man in her life and is welling to make him feel/be her King,
as well as some one who is receptive to being treated like and being
my Queen. Age is not an issue.
Distance is not an issue with me. I don't mind managing a long
distance relationship, in or out of the United States. The way I
look at it, is that it's only temporary.
Well, I guess that is it for now. Only if you are a Jehovah's
Witness (sister), do you need to reply to this invite for
companionship. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
----------------------------------------
Translation of the above: You will have to STAY HOME ALL THE TIME, NO FANCY CLOTHES, DON'T BRING ANY KIDS WITH YOU 'CUZ I DON"T LIKE OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS, I WILL M AKE ALL THE RULES AND BE THE ONE TO TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW (I am a legal educator, you know), and YOU WILL HAVE TO KISS MY HEADSHIP WITHOUT QUESTION.
Any takers? No referral fee. He's ALL YOURS! You can thank me later. <img src='/forum/images/smilies/big.gif' align=middle>
GRITS
Edited by - grits on 18 July 2002 16:10:14
1000 were asked to leave brooklyn bethel (actually, this includes the farm and patterson) "voluntarily!
" only 6 replied to the request in the last 3 weeks.
it looks like the "waters" of bethel are drying up, or rather, their revenues are drying up!
THANKS TO ALL THE FUNNY GUYS!!! i.e.,
Who was the guy on M*A*S*H who dressed up like a woman all the time? Mike Musto, your new pic reminded me of him. You two should exchange outfits and stuff! Too Funny!
And LarsGuy wrote: "Maybe like some career criminals they weren't going to do anything that challenging in the first place." - LOL!
And Jim TX, I agree you get the BLUE RIBBON for Humor today! ("Sign Posted on front of Bethel HQ: "Due to Budget Cuts, the 'Light that keeps getting brighter' has been turned off.")
Lastly, ISP, loved yours, too! ('READ THE JOB SECTION DAILY').
Humor goes GREAT with morning coffee! Thanks people!
GRITS
i've noticed many new ones to our lil community here and have been unable to welcome you all personally.
there is a great variety of people here and loads of information and support.
feel free to vent!
Thanks for understanding, Lady Lee (who wrote: GRITS being split for a while is part of the process - It goes away after a while -- faster if you hang out here). I know THAT's true... I think it's happening already. ;-)
Mimilly: Will do re: the Newbie Education Idea. (Just wondered if it had already been done. Didn't want to duplicate effort.) -- Also, are you lying on a pillow in your picture? :) (joking). Maybe it's that toothache, eh? I empathize with that, got a few hairline fractures in mine which need crowns and stuff. Not Fun!
Lamia wrote: "well i myself personally for 15 of those 19 yrs woke up + fell asleep every day saying...... 'its today , armygiddyon, its today!!!!!!" ---- Ain't THAT the truth! Many times I would say the same thing to myself, actually in FEAR, 'cuz still thinking I'm going to have the Angel of Death visit my door when Armageddon strikes. I just try not to think about it...
I forget who wrote about fear of being a thread killer... Had the same feeling a time or two, but my "reasonable" mind says that's my insecurity speaking, and not true at all. There's just TOO MANY threads going ALL the time. Impossible for everyone to keep up with them all, I'm sure, though I sure do keep trying! :)
Big Tex... Now why did you have to go and mention CHOCOLATE! Now I WANT some! ;)
Thanks to everybody who posted their greetings. That really is a nice thing to do.
And as a Fairly-New-Newbie, I greet and welcome the other Newbies!
GRITS
have you ever been in a congregation that seemed either very lenient or very strict?
you know, the type that people will say "you can do that in your congregation???
" i know of more than a few halls where all the elders and ministerial servants had to auxillary pioneer.i know of 1 congregation that has a m.s.
:-) Funny, minimus... I'd rather go in service any day than clean toilets...Grits
have you ever been in a congregation that seemed either very lenient or very strict?
you know, the type that people will say "you can do that in your congregation???
" i know of more than a few halls where all the elders and ministerial servants had to auxillary pioneer.i know of 1 congregation that has a m.s.
Interesting Topic for Conversation!
I never heard the phrase "Conscience of the Congregation." All I remember hearing was that a cong may lose the holy spirit from showering down upon it, if everybody didn't keep their noses clean. And this cong sure FELT like there was no HS there. When I first went to this cong, it felt HORRIBLE inside, the atmosphere, everybody was so sloppy and layed back, half asleep, nobody greeted you, the bros on the platform couldn't even read, stumbled over words, didn't know their punctuation, etc. etc. It felt like THICK SLUDGE engulfing the inside of the KHall. I wanted to run away back to the West where I had originally studied, as they were so much more lively. This new cong, in the South, was, how shall I say, full of HICKS. There was also prejudice problems between the blacks and the whities. That was hard to swallow for me, being a newbie in the truth, 'cuz like, we are JWs and NOT supposed to have THAT kind of problem. Right????
Also, re: beards, it was okay for the black brothers to have their mustaches, for some reason. Guess mustaches looked better on them than the white bros.
This cong had those same atmospheric problems for quite a number of years. It wasn't until 7-8-9 years later, when they had a pioneer couple switch to our cong for the specific purpose of livening things up, that things finally DID get better.
Ah, the memories. Thanks for the topic.
GRITS
well brother ted jaracz.
i have never seen such fumbling from so called 'mouthpieces' of god, and so public too.. and our presiding overseer from scotland didn't do too well either did he?
although he had probably been warned not to get involved before the panorama team got there.
Thanks Scourge for reminding me about Mat. 10:19. I didn't even think of that one. So true so true!
GRITS
click on this line to read the b.b.c.
panorama expose on the spiritual paradise for pedophiles - the watchtower society!
hit the nail on the head from the howling and gnashing of teeth it has produced from amongst the jehovah's witless drones, who have email-bombed the b.b.c.
That was a big undertaking, Focus! Well done! Thanks for bringing all the blinded comments together into one thread for permanent preservation here at J-W.com. They have bombarded Silent Lambs with their drivvle also, and it's enough to get your blood pressure going! It really DID surprise me how nasty they express themselves. I mean, it's "okay" for us to be nasty, since we are not dubs anymore. But THEM? Shame Shame. I remember writing letters to South American officials back in the early/mid '80s about whatever it was, and I remember the KM stressed that we should always be very respectful in our letters. Respect was definitely lacking in these BBC letters from the JWs, as they were tearing down the reporter, the staff of the show, and the BBC itself. It was pathetic.
Thanks again!
GRITS
