Hillary -- I still don't get it. (Which isn't to say that there isn't something to get.) Both exclusion of blood and exclusion of association can be imposed by parents on children. The consequences are quite different, but any issues of will and self-determination seem identical in both cases.
Posts by Grout
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27Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse?
by Englishman inmost persons who die through lack of blood have made that choice for themselves.
the consequences of such a course of action (often death) generally have an effect which is limited primarily to the individual who is refusing treatment.. however, the victim of a decision to shun has no input into that decision.
therefore the 'victim' of shunning is a helpless recipient of that policy.
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British JW sues Watchtower Society
by Amazing inthis case is about a british jw, on behalf of jehovah's witnesses at large, sued the watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.
this case goes base to 1997, but is interesting in that the british jw man alleged 'defamation of character' against the wts.
he sued over an article appearing in the watchtower magazine.
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Grout
Stephanus: Is 'privilege' the legal term, or your description?
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British JW sues Watchtower Society
by Amazing inthis case is about a british jw, on behalf of jehovah's witnesses at large, sued the watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.
this case goes base to 1997, but is interesting in that the british jw man alleged 'defamation of character' against the wts.
he sued over an article appearing in the watchtower magazine.
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Grout
I'm not surprised he lost. For historical reasons, many things a religion does are protected just because they're a religion.
Reminds me of the legal doctrine that a legislator can say things in debate that normally would be considered slander and not be liable, because of the legal assumption that anything said in debate is political speech and therefore must be protected.
I don't think very highly of these legal doctrines, but I can see their utility in the maintenance of a free society.
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27
Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse?
by Englishman inmost persons who die through lack of blood have made that choice for themselves.
the consequences of such a course of action (often death) generally have an effect which is limited primarily to the individual who is refusing treatment.. however, the victim of a decision to shun has no input into that decision.
therefore the 'victim' of shunning is a helpless recipient of that policy.
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Grout
Hillary, I can see why the two doctrines would be fodder for cruelty suits and even criminal cases. But I can't see why a comparison between them is important. (Though it is interesting.)
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I love hypocrisy, I love slander!!!
by ashitaka inmy parents-in-law have accused my wife and i of attempted fraud, of corrupting their son, of slandering them (hahahaha, the truth is much better than any lie!!
) associating with disfellowshipped persons, etc.. my father said he was going to do something about it...he wants to straiten things out with the elders because he thinks it isn't right that my wife and i are "informally marked".. i told him to stop being naive, and that if he defended us, eventually that he would be marked, and if he fought that, disfellowshipped.
when we left my parents house last nite, i was looking into the face of a broken man.
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Grout
Shunning has been a factor in my family, yes, but more than that was a shunning that did not happen. My stepfather not only molested my sisters but admitted it, albeit with key details omitted. Still he was not shunned. Moreover, he came >< this close to being reappointed in his new congregation.
As a result of this fiasco, only one member of my family is really a gung-ho dub today.
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27
Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse?
by Englishman inmost persons who die through lack of blood have made that choice for themselves.
the consequences of such a course of action (often death) generally have an effect which is limited primarily to the individual who is refusing treatment.. however, the victim of a decision to shun has no input into that decision.
therefore the 'victim' of shunning is a helpless recipient of that policy.
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Grout
The blood doctrine has the potential for causing individuals a great deal more harm than the shunning doctrine. Granted, if an adult refuses blood, that is his choice, and he mostly harms himself. But if an adult refuses blood FOR HIS CHILD and the child DIES, well, that's worse than any shunning.
On the other hand, one could argue that the number of shunned people is so large, and the number of dead children is so small in comparison, that the total suffering caused by shunning is larger than that caused by blood refusal. And will we ever know how many suicides were caused or abetted by shunning?
On the gripping hand, I think this is basically a silly question. Both doctrines are evil.
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88
If evolution is true ?
by D wiltshire inif evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.
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if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.
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Grout
Applied to the cosmos, this is a well-known paradox. If the universe is infinite and has existed for infinite time, then there should be no black spots in the sky; the whole sky should be filled with light from stars, some near but most far. Obviously, though, our night sky is dark. So the universe has not existed for infinite time. And therefore, neither has life.
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Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos -
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No such thing as Ghosts...
by Abaddon ini remember this article from when it came out; found it whilst looking for info on low frequency sound, it's very interesting, but was ignored by-and-large by the spook community as it's less rimantic than dead grandpa's.. .
http://users.iafrica.com/s/sa/salbu/apollo/huma.html.
monday 29 june 1998 .
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Grout
Seems to me that one should fear faith and respect its lack.
After all, strong faith means willingness to separate ones mind from reality to a larger degree than necessary.
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Question For American Travellers:
by Englishman inhow do you feel about travelling by air since the events of sept 11?.
have these occurences just made you uneasy, or were they enough to put a stop to flying altogether?.
i told some of my pub buddies that i would ask this question, the news media have indicated that most americans are refusing to travel anywhere by plane at present.. englishman.. nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
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Grout
Not only am I flying, but I recently flew American (strike 1) cross-country (strike 2) on a 767 (strike 3).
Fear of terrorism is kind of like belief in the lottery -- it works only on those who can't do math.
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12/8/01 Awake (Arthritis one)
by patio34 infor the 1st time in about 8 months, i glanced thru a mag.
in the "watching the world" section at the back, there was a small article about the percentage of genes matching in a mouse and human and other examples and percentages.
i forget the point of the article.
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Grout
Modern biology is incompatible with JW theology. Without special creation there could be no Adam and Eve; without them, there could be no original sin. And what about Enoch being "sixth in line from Adam"?
On the other hand, they have to acknowledge evolution SOMETIME. I wonder how they'll contort their theology to fit.