Psych.,
Glad you are here. Real glad you don't think the Witnesses have the "Truth." You are doing well. Now keep on going. About the numbers of molesters, I don't know the numbers. I do know the documented cases I have seen put up. The case of the young lady named Erica in Washington state that was raped and molested by an elder, moved to California where she was raped and molested by another elder, related to the first if I remember right. She had the courage to come back as an adult and press charges, it turned out she was not the only one this pervert had bothered. He is now doing time for it, the other elder got off due to some kind of statute of limitations, so he is still out there loose and around kids as far as I know. If you want the facts on that you can read the whole trial. Then there was another case in Mass. where the guy was convicted, once again he is doing time as we speak. Now this bird who molested his own grandchild, no one is denying that he did it are they??? Nope. Many, many on this board have experiences like that, look at Hyghlandyr's story if you need a fresh one. You don't deny these do you? No. Do you know what all the convicted ones had in common whose trials I read??? In every case Witnesses were there saying, "I would trust Brother __________ with my kids!!!!" which is exactly the problem. They did. Have you been reading the news the last year or so? Are you aware of the Witness associated family slayings that have occured? The one in Atlanta just hoping to make sure his kids made it into the "New System." Killed them with a hammer I believe it was. The one on the West Coast who'd been shunned, used a shotgun I believe. NO, there are perverts and crazies in every religion, the difference is how they are dealt with, the "Love" you speak of is no more prevalent among Witness than any other religion and is in fact much more shallow. You don't have to commit a biblical sin like theft, or murder or any sexual sin to become "shunned" by the Witnesses. Their love is shallow enough to shun you over any organizational rule breaking. IN FACT they have made family love so shallow that it too is conditional to accepting the full range of organizational details. If they change back after the shunning to what the person being shunned had believed, he is still shunned. I committed no moral sin. I just asked my daughter to explain the current understanding on the seven thousand year creative days, and where we are in the stream of time. She shared my letter with her elders, they advised her that I had said nothing "wrong" but that being around me might "damage" her faith. I haven't been to her home now in three years. She returned the keys to the car she had been borrowing along with a letter, a business letter really, letting me know that she had to "alter" our relationship. Haven't been in her home in years now. Poor child. Poor, poor child. But oh so loving.
She had no childhood like Hyghlandyrs, she had only all her mom and my love and I worked two jobs to see that she had piano lessons, a piano and the prom dresses, money for trips and science fairs, in short all she needed. She repays us with pain. She strains at a gnat and swallows a camel. Won't have me in her home due to my questioning a chronology which varies and yet breaks one of the Ten Commandments, "Honor your Mother and Father." Love. Tell it to a different group. We know all about LOVE as defined by the cult you belong to. I hope you wake up. You have already said and done enough to be shunned yourself. Best you don't mention being here to any buddies or family members that you want to keep. On an "apostate board" saying you Don't believe the Witnesses have the Truth, Ouch. That wouldn't play well. That might be as bad as wondering whether we are still in the period where Adam was naming the animals, that's the one that cost me a daughter. Poor, poor child. I only wish she were on a board like this talking with ex-witnesses that could help her. I would buy her a new car if she'd just become a regular poster here and really discuss issues. I should probably make the offer, with the Witness outlook, she'd probably take it. No more food at the conventions, donations only for tax purposes, heck, I bet she would take it.
Posts by Grunt
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70Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"
by Psychdigg inthe fake precision fallacy involves making a claim with a mathematical precision that is impossible to obtain.. he does this on his site where he starts with an alleged and unsupported figure that the watchtower has a file of some 23,000 child molesters and runs that figure up to the point where it becomes absolutely absurd.
his purpose is to persuade readers that jehovah's witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation.
the problem is that he starts with at best very dubious sources and then he takes this data and treats it as if it is precise and factual.. it is not unusual for many of us to use a frivolous "false precision" in making statements.
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Grunt
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56
Hyghlandyr's Announcement
by Hyghlandyr ini have finally gotten around to giving a cursory synopsis of my story, life before and after being one of jehovahs witnesses.. it contains the "f" word.
i have thus placed it into the adult and disagreements forum.
i have also placed it there since there are people who do not like my philosophies or what i write.
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Grunt
Hyghlandyr
Your story makes my soul ache. As a parent of two children I can't the way you and your sisters were treated, heck as a human being I can't stand it. I am so sorry for all that you and your sisters had to go through. Even your mother had her own peculiar brand of hell to live through. I hope that you can find some peace and harmony in the rest of your life. When I get a chance to talk to kids, which I do on occasion, I always tell them not to consider having children unless they are prepared to put them first for at least eighteen or nineteen years. Many of them have stories that are similar to yours, as hard as that may be for you to believe. Rape, abandonment, sorrow and confusion. I only hope they wind up on a religious discussion board being careful to put their story in a spot that wouldn't offend others. Thank you for your consideration of others, thank you for telling your story. I wish you
all the stability and happiness you were denied. -
51
Barb Anderson--Front Page of the Tenn. paper
by VeniceIT inhttp://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/05/17418642.shtml?element_id=17418642 .
here is her front page article, luv the kh sign in the background!!!.
ven
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Grunt
Hilda,
Glad you are still here. I don't think I am profound enough to understand one of your statements. "Language is the presence of absence." Hmmmm. Nope. Just can't quite get a handle on that. Last time I was stumped like this it was by Bill Clinton's "What is, "is?" I thought I knew but obviously it wasn't what I thought it was, I mean linking verbs don't merit that kind of question. It had to be symbolic of something that made oral sex in the Oval Office, Ok, unless of course it had to do with a nickname for some kind of cigar. Now I get "Language is the presence of absence." That must be some kind of carte blanche deal that says setting umpteen false dates, telling people "Jesus DID come back, he's just INVISIBLE!!!!" and telling people Moses, David, Abraham and crew were coming back to stay at the Judge's pad in California don't count against you, or maybe that "You can take COW'S BLOOD, it's HUMAN BLOOD you can't take, well you can take it all but you have to divide it into itsy bitsy parts first." How about it "is" that right??? If not, please explain. Don't be like Bill, he never explained, just grinned that ole S---Eaten grin and started pardoning people and planning his talk show. -
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Some Musings
by Farkel ini sent it to kent.
the only thing that kept me going was the thought of what my suicide would do to my children for the rest of their lives.
i finally got the courage to seek help for that depression, and im fine now.. alanf and gedanken (two of my good friends) helped me out, and i am most grateful for that.
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Grunt
Happy Birthday, Farkel!
I am so glad that your financial situation got better. I am glad you turned 54 free of the cult. By the way, I also was an old H20 guy but I came here well before the crowd. I miss the old H20, I also miss this place as it was. Your coffeeshop comparison was a good one. I do have to take exception to one thing. For me it was not that some of the old H20 crowd was aggressive it was that they were bad about personally insulting people who disagreed with them. Maybe that is a city/country difference, (rural southerner here) at least that was the part that bothered me. We are all on the same side, no use in slapping at each other when we have a common foe that needs whipping in the worst kind of way.
Anyway, glad things are better for you, I wish you happiness, and hope you continue to fight the fine fight against the Tower and its lying minions.
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51
Barb Anderson--Front Page of the Tenn. paper
by VeniceIT inhttp://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/05/17418642.shtml?element_id=17418642 .
here is her front page article, luv the kh sign in the background!!!.
ven
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Grunt
Hi Waiting,
Thanks. Realizing that the Witnesses were teaching that Jesus was not everyone's mediator is the thing that pushed me over the edge and made me an active opponent. I had already stopped going out door to door because I couldn't push 1914 and the rest of the chronology. After reading an old book by Russell with his unique views on Pyramid measurements being related to the life of Christ and useful in predicting the future, I had lost faith in the Witnesses as being used by Jehovah as some kind of tool. Still I did think they were the CLOSEST thing to right. No trinity, no burning hell, no immortal soul, no clergy class (at that time or so I thought)no killing your fellow man for political reasons, right enough to keep my respect and for me to view them as being sincere. I just accepted that I was going to die but determined to live every minute with appreciation for it, to take each breath in deep and enjoy it. Then my cousin told me the stance they had on the mediatorship. I denied it. He got our the Watchtower and at that point I became a vocal denouncer of the Tower and its twisted Truth. To this day most Witnesses don't know about the real position on the mediator and they darn sure don't know what it is based on because like the 7000 Year Creative Day it is a product of New York City, not the Bible. Whew. I can't seem to stop. Forgive me.Thanks again and no, my wife wishes I would stay off the boards and not be so openly against it. She hopes for a reapproachment with our little girl who lives an hour away and hasn't had us to her home in three years this June. My wife was never a Witness and had to put up with me being one, with all the crap that entailed, no Christmas, no birthdays or holidays, and yet she stood by me for years and now though never a Witness she is enduring my daughter's shunning and it breaks her heart. She is sick of all of it and just wants everyone to be normal and nice to one another. My daughter told her the night she slipped my personal little DF letter from her, that my wife and her relationship would not be affected, they would "Stay Close though letters and phone calls." Just bullshit of course.
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51
Barb Anderson--Front Page of the Tenn. paper
by VeniceIT inhttp://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/05/17418642.shtml?element_id=17418642 .
here is her front page article, luv the kh sign in the background!!!.
ven
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Grunt
Hello Hilda,
I am so glad you are here. You can learn a lot. You show a lot of courage in coming here against the Societies wishes and I am proud of you for that. One of the first things you will learn here is the real history of the Watchtower Society and your real role in it. For a group who pride themselves on knowing the Bible most Witnesses know so very little of it or even of their Organization's twisted view of it. You reflect this in your post. You seem to think you are somehow connected to Jesus Christ, here is what you said, "I cannot do that since Christ has touched my heart and soul." According to the Watchtower Society, Christ doesn't deal directly with you, but only through his "Channel" his "Brothers" the 144,000. All of your blessings will be "rendered" by them then applied to you. They will be blessed SO MUCH that it will overflow on you. But never forget, in the words of the society Jesus is their lawyer, not yours. I don't even really think you can be called a christian, just a friend of the Christians. You are an "alien resident" not a REAL Jew. Not trying to hurt your feelings but at the same time didn't want you getting all uppity and acting like Christ was YOUR mediator or something. According to them, he isn't. Got that? That is why you don't get to act like a Christian on Memorial and partake, the "real christians" will serve out his ransom to you and your ilk over a thousand years, ok? You are on probation, even after the end of "This System." Some of them even look forward to "Ruling you with an Iron Rod" in the words of our favorite "Big Tree of Rightousness" the poster called by the handle,You Know. There now, see you already learned something. Stick around, there's lots more. Sadly the real truth can be harsh and when all you have been seeing is smoke and mirrors the glare of direct information can scare you away. Please don't let it. If you need to take a jab, please take it, but stick around whatever you do. This board is the quickest road you have to reality so don't back up or turn around. No matter what anyone says, or even what you say, I just want you around, Little Sponge, where we can do you some good. Being around people who have traveled the road you are on can only help. Don't just bump down it alone. Remember the words of Ben Franklin, "Experience is a hard school, but a fool will have no other." This printing company you have chosen as your mediator is full of lies, past and present, learn it the easy way from those who have already been burned. -
14
Bill, in newspapers everywhere....
by Cassiline ineven in my small "bfe" town.
thanks for giving a voice to silentlambs everywhere!!!.
http://members.aol.com/cassilines/myhomepage/witnesses4.jpg?mtbrand=aol_us.
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Grunt
Cassaline,
No but I used to sell through that area and developed a real love for Louisiana. I was living in Jackson, Miss. at the time. When I was at Parris Island later, I would travel back there when things were rough where I was. Fields of flowers beside the raised roads, beautiful shades of green, and me in a hot little Ford I loved, testing the wind to see which way I would travel that day. It has been a while. I later moved down close to Frenchy (the poster on this board) and worked for three years and learned to love Plaquemines Parish also. I wish you well and am so glad you are free and helping others. -
6
Let not your eye feel sorry
by dmouse inas i reflect on the increasing number of newspapers reporting the wbtss child abuse scandal today i also note the sudden increase in jw apologists on this board.. this is good, it shows that the issue is making em hurt.
squirm you bastards, squirm!.
now, as anyone who knows me will testify, i am one of the meekest people you will probably ever meet.
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Grunt
dmouse, metatron,
I agree wholeheartedly. When you read some of the crap they put on the poor "sheep" like a husband having sex with a horse or another man does not make you entitiled to a divorce, vaccines are puss, when you think of all the young boys sent to prison to suffer abuse and debasement, of how quickly they change a policy over money and how slowly when it is only the suffering of those who believe in them, when you think of all the Witness children alienated and alone in so many schools and all the families they have destroyed and are destroying, contempt and hatred for them comes pretty easy.
As for the Trolls, I love having them here. I am always hoping that a Witness can be pulled out of the fire, and these people WILL wind up seeing things as we do. It is only a matter of time, they take a giant step away from the Tower just by being here no matter what they say or do while here, it gives them something they are hiding from their socalled brothers and sisters at the hall which creates a healthy distance. They are recieving, whether they want to or not. Like children from a shattered family, they cannot be expected to spring from the source they spring from and act responsibly, they have had a bad model. -
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My letter to the no-spin-zone FOX NEWS
by freeman inhere is my letter to bill oreilly of fox news.
i used my real name, address, and phone number so if it gets read on the air, everyone will know who freeman is and i will likely be disfellowshiped for apostasy.
and imho, it would be well worth it if it saves just one poor kid.
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Grunt
Great job, great letter. It is people like you who make the difference, my hat is off to you.
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A message to the critcal people
by JPandelo inafter cruising the board for a while i must say it is amazing the ignorance that some show on this board of the true issues at hand.
those who are critical and small minded know who they are.
also the meek however angry know who they are as well.
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Grunt
Hi Justin,
Sorry for the grief and pain your family has already suffered. I am glad you and yours have the courage and integrity to fight and that your fight is being made public for the world at large to see. As LDH said, that is the thing these cockroaches hate the most, exposure and having their lies and twisted reasoning put under a light for all to see. If you want a Witness to read anything all you have to do is let them know you are also sending the message to others. They will read it then out of fear that you are exposing their little clay gods. Your family has sent a message to the world that most Witnesses will have to read. Maybe for some it will be enlightening. Glad to have you out and speaking loud and clear.