Posts by Grunt

42

homage to Waiting

by teejay in

jw
friends

comf, my friend,.

by mentioning the number of replies to the threads md has started, all i was saying is that, possibly, we don't want to read shit from somebody that spouts venom at people.

i dunno, but that is what i was thinking.

Add my applause to those admiring Waiting. She is one of my favorites and despite the large number of posts each one that I have read was a good one. Waiting, and a group of high quality posters drew me to this board when it was very small, they are still among my favorites.

It was a kinder board then. I made the mistake of voicing my opinion in a thread on evolution and some posters I always respected began calling me stupid and telling I really didn't deserve an answer. It is a shame to see people who can't make a polite response even if they totally disagree. They could learn a lot from Waiting. She was one of the first to welcome me to this board also and is always the first to welcome me back after a break. Thanks, Waiting. If you ever find yourself in Central Florida, I would love to grill something for you. I don't have the talent to cook!

In another thread they are listing favorite posters, I think that is a good idea only I have too many to list and being senile my list would still be too short to do credit to some of the fine people who have posted here and on H20.

I will tell you one of my favorite posts of all time though, was one of yours COMF. "A Day in the Life." I also really enjoyed your story of going to the PTA Holloween festival and perking up the kids. I kept that picture of you in the wolf suit for quite a while as it always made me smile. I never knew your brother but I know you missed your calling when you didn't become a high school teacher. You have the compassion and with all the wisdom of the Rubiyat and your music to draw from you'd have all the right answers! The main answer you seemed to give in the posts mentioned before were the ones so many need and never get, "I care" and "You can do it." Your having "done it" in so many ways is a testament to that.

Grunt

27

I've Retired

by Stephanus in

jw
friends

well, i've reached my goal of 2000+ posts and have decided to move on.

i've never felt that i've contributed much here, anyway, and since my background is not jw, it's easy to see why some here see me as an interloper and trespasser.

i may look in from time to time and (to be polite) be involved in threads i've started, but i need to get a life outside this board.

Grunt

If you get bored, come on back! I take breaks too and it is a good thing to do. Usually mine are because of work or vacations but I always looking back in on the crew and finding that things are still popping. You don't have to be an ex-member to hate a cult, they are very similar. Having enough concern or compassion to be interested in someone else's problems speaks to a big heart. Good luck to you.

Grunt

68

Sheila Bowen's Letter To the GB!

by Ranchette in

jw
friends

i knocked on the locked door of the appeal hearing last night after they had dismissed bill and told the six elders that i had something to say to them and told them it was summed up it a letter i had written.i then asked them if i could read it to them and they could have their own copy when i was finished.they said that would be fine.. here it is.

governing body,.

25 columbia heights.

Grunt

Sheila,
You and Bill have had an enormous impact on so many lives, so many innocent and up until your help, defenseless lives. I am glad you told them off. Your letter was honest, well written and to the point. Despite the callous request to have only the last part explained, I can't imagine a decent man hearing what you said and not being deeply affected by it. Regardless of that group of company men, you haved played your part with dignity, compassion and courage. You have exemplified the behavior these yes-men should have exhibited. Thanks, for each person you have helped and will help and thanks from me.

Grunt

Barbara,
I think all of you who are involved in exposing this gut-wrenching, family destroying situation have behaved with real honor and courage. Thank you from my heart. I can't imagine what it was like for you to endure the personal pain you have and then taken up the cause of others like yourselves. With people like you and Sheila, and Barbara, and all those innocent victims who stood bravely and allowed information I am sure they preferred to keep private to be broadcast across continents, well, I am certain that any person of any kind of quality can't help but be made aware of just how dangerous and wrong the Society's position is. It is only a step from that to recognizing the lack of love that permeates this cult and the hypocrites who direct it. No matter what, any parent will be thinking more carefully about their child's safety and maybe some of these little "lambs" will get the protection they need and deserve. Thanks to all of you.

Grunt

Cyngus,
I don't understand you. They are covering up child abuse with lies and threating honest witnesses, even parents, if they come forth to protect them. Do you really think that is Biblical? I thought one of the great commandments was to love one another as much as ourselves, does that exclude children? What about lies and those who love the lie, doesn't that apply here? This cult has repeatedly been caught telling lies about how they deal with abuse, whether the abuser is allowed to go door to door, whether the people who tell about the abuse are intimidated or not. The behavior of this cult has been typical, for a cult. They put themselves first, image is everything, and the ends justify the means even if the "means" are the shattered lives of sexually abused children. Did you read the trial transcripts? If not you need to. Did you hear the Tower legal representative telling the elder not to put himself in a "jam" over the allegations of child abuse??? No, these people don't use Bible principals except in the sense that the Pharisees did. The children that have had their families destroyed because of their twisted interpretations, the parents who have been shunned by kids at their behest as in the case of Barbara Anderson, the awful carnage these cold-hearted men have shoved on people that trusted them in no way reflects the commandments to love one another and to hate lies. They love the lie and they love to practice deceit on the "flock" they claim to protect, from Mexico to the United Nations they talk out of both sides of their mouths and from Africa to New Jersey people have had to pay for their dishonesty in a coin too dear to imagine. The rules they impose on others they do not abide by, their behaviour is NOT Biblical. It is WRONG.

Grunt

18

PRESS RELEASE 8-12-02

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

press release

monday, august, 12

william h. bowen: ky 270-527-5350, silentlambs.org

Grunt

It takes a hero to do what so many have done on this board and what Bill and Barbara and spouses have had the courage to do in a public forum, to stand up for truth for the sake of the defenseless and at great cost to yourself. To all of you, there are no braver people than you. The cult you have exposed does hold hostages and they will make them "dead" to you if you draw their fire, as you have done. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for having the integrity and selfless courage to stand up for children you don't know even at the cost of those you do. Maybe, just maybe, your stand will cause those you love to honestly look at the situation, after the first kneejerk reaction to the choice of "my parents or Jehovah." I fervently hope so. You deserve accolades, not pain. Standing up to an authority figure that you have served and that those you love unquestioningly obey is not easy and invites the kind of retaliation that you are enduring.
Ray Franz drew public scrutiny to this cult over personal conscience issues and the lies he saw being perpetrated on the everyday Witness from a power they wrongly attributed a form of divine guidance to. His books helped many, many, people to see this bunch for what they are and to free themselves from its influence.
All of you have drawn public attention to a horrible crime being perpetrated, ignored and swept under the rug by members and the leadership of this same cult. Perhaps many, many, more people and maybe even a government or two will look closely at what you have exposed and even more will be protected if not freed because of what you have done. Thanks is not enough to say, but it is all I know. Thanks from myself and thanks on behalf of the kids whose tormentors might now be detected and turned in to the law. You have done a GOOD thing.

Grunt

65

How Many Here Have Been Shunned?

by Reborn2002 in

jw
friends

as most of you already know, the jehovah's witnesses are covering an article in their august kingdom ministry to be discussed the weeks of 8/19 and 8/26 which details how they are to shun and avoid those who are no longer members of their organization, even immediate family members.. .

undoubtedly this article has been written to reinforce to the rank&file jehovah's witnesses the shunning policy, so as to tighten the ranks and prevent members from having the opportunity to learn the abundant contradictions and hypocrisies found within watchtower doctrine and practice from any who may have left.. this policy also serves to divide families and attempt to shame or abuse those whom have chosen to no longer be jehovah's witnesses, for whatever reason.. that much is obvious.

in recent days this topic has been discussed in detail in various threads.

Grunt

I am so sorry for the pain that all of you have had to endure over a lie. Add me to the list by the way.

Like Erin my daughter and son-in-law CAN bend the rules when it helps THEM. I think they had been contemplating shunning me, but as they were using my late model car and had been for a year, it was not the right time. Then his mom sold them a nice car cheap and BAM it was time. Of course I am sure this was all coincidence, as it was a strictly spititual decision. They had just bought a new house and we had given them a $600.00 dryer which their conscience allowed them keep also though I hadn't paid for it yet, it was still ok for me to do that. My son was in Connecticut and we were on vacation but he was flying down and we were coming in early to have a meal in our home in Florida on Saturday, when we came in Friday night, my little girl had been there and slipped three cards under the door. I knew what was going down when I saw the car they'd had for a year in my driveway. One note was to my wife saying THEIR relationship wouldn't change, they would stay CLOSE through phone calls and the internet. One note was to my son, her brother saying that there were problems between her and old Dad, spiritual problems. The other note was to me and had the car keys in it. It had a big Thank You for the car and a typewritten letter starting "Dad,..." no Dear Dad none of that, this was a business letter from a WatchTower rep. it seems. Couldn't face us and tell us. Anyway, a bunch of lies and bullshit followed, streams of the verses twisted, misapplied and used by this cult to justify the un-natural deeds they do. Here is how it ended.

This is how my daughter ended her letter:

"In summary, this research has motivated me to make a change in our relationship. My preferred comapnanionship is with those who build up......Although this discipline for me is very hard, I feel in the depths of my heart that it is the right thing to do in Jehovah's eyes. I hope this will benefit you somehow.

I ask that you recognize these perimeters that are scriptural:
9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

1 Cor. 5:6

"....a little leaven ferments the whole lump."

Love,

I was stunned, heartbroken, I can't describe the pain I felt or the anger. I wouldn't accept it. My wife called her that night and told her off then cried half the night, I could only get her answering machine. So the next day I called at work. Whoever picked up the phone called her and said, ".... It's your daddy on the phone." My little girl came on and talked normally. I apologized for calling at work said we didn't have to talk about religion, she had brought it up after all, lets just drop it, everything seemed fine, she said ok and seemed normal in tone and everything. Then when I called again at her home she picked up and told me nothing had changed, she'd "HAD" to talk that way because she was at work. Wow. This post is too long already but that has been three years ago this August. It seems far longer.
One of the things that irks me is the way they use the very verses that condemn them to justify the awful and unchristian things they do, the inhuman things they do.

THEY are the ones who have twisted and left the teachings of Christ. Saying he isn't the mediator for everyone, that only a few should partake, that only the Annointed are really brothers of Christ. All lies.

THEY teach a gospel other than the one taught by the apostles.

Galatians chapt. 1:7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

With all the crap they've added and subtracted this fits them to a tee.

Grunt

56

U.S. War with Iraq

by Crazy151drinker in

jw
friends

i just wanted to get some opinions on this matter from everyone.

support here in the states is pretty solid but very weak in europe.

i will make my prediction (ie you know) that we will be having a little sand party within a year.

Grunt

As I understand it, Saddam was within a year or so of making the Bomb when we went in before. I think the Israelis had already knocked out one that was well on the way back in the seventies or early eighties if I remember right. There is no doubt that if he is left alone, he will build it. There is no doubt that if doesn't do it, he will give it to someone else to do it. I think a nuclear cloud or an equally deadly attack via germs or poison in some major American or European city is a certainty if we don't, it is just a matter of time. Remember that they had already planned on flying a plane into the Eiffel Tower. The people who are willing to use these things hate all western society, not just the USA.
I see no other way than to intervene unless a genuine openess to check ALL of Iraq is made availabe and frankly I would figure he'd finished it and slipped it over the border if he invited an ispection that was honest, thorough and aboveboard. As for rebuilding their economy, I do feel sorry for them, and if the people of Iraq really try a democracy I am in favor of helping. I doubt our help would be appreciated even if taken though. I wouldn't give a penny to a despot if that is who takes over.
What I don't understand is why all the noise about it? Why in the world would we talk about it unless we are going to be a while doing it and just want to keep him on pins and needles and spending millions on security and such while he waits.
I dread the day it happens for all of the innocents on both sides, but especially for the poor old grunts that will be down doing the street to street, house to house work that will get it done. With all our other commitments and no allies except probably England, this one will demand regular ground troops I would imagine. So much pain, anguish and guilt all for one stupid son of a gun with an ego bigger than his country.

Grunt

9

The Koran "the book of the enemy"

by JanH in

jw
friends

us university sued over koran class.

religion and education in the us are an awkward mix .

a us university that included a book on the koran in a class for new students is being sued by a christian organisation and a group of students.

Grunt

>
Fear & Loathing in Norway: Neo-nazism, nostalgia and immigration

Author: Valerie Borey
Published on: July 27, 2001

Related Subject(s): Immigrants -- Norway , Neo-Nazism -- Norway , Racism -- Norway

A recent study conducted by the Norwegian Statistics Bureau reported that Norway rated 3rd in Europe for highest net immigration when compared with the countrys existing population. This influx of immigrants has been problematic for many regions in Norway who find themselves unprepared to deal with the complexities of integrating culturally diverse refugees into what has traditionally been a homogeneous system.

Municipalities have responded to these difficulties by developing an elaborate screening system, in which they choose how many refugees they are willing to receive and from which countries. Problems with racism, violence, and religious differences have culled a sense of caution in the selection process. The Norway Post reports that, more often than before, [the municipalities] also demand detailed personal information.

In June, the parliament rejected a proposal for mandatory HIV screening of all residence permit applicants on the grounds that such a practice would be discriminatory. Regional Minister Sylvia Brustad said, The proposal is part of the general debate around Norwegian immigration policy, in an attempt to frighten people and brand a whole group as carriers of HIV/AIDS.

Fear that immigrant populations will be responsible for contaminating Norway has been widespread not just in terms of HIV, but drawing also on beliefs about criminal behavior, employment, religious zealotry, public health, and the integrity of the educational system.

In light of these concerns, a number of neo-nazi groups have been gaining in popularity, especially in areas which have seen a larger influx of immigrants. One group in particular, Oslos Boot boys, is believed to be responsible for several episodes of racist violence in the past two years, including the brutal assault of a 31 year old Moroccan-born man in 1998 and the murder of a 15 year old Norwegian-African boy in January of 2001.

114

15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

by JanH in

jw
friends

scientific american runs an article rebutting some of the most common creationist arguments.

short and to the point.. this is the first page.

click for the following ones.. see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleid=000d4fec-7d5b-1d07-8e49809ec588eedf&catid=2.

Grunt

Well, I have to say I am proud of you g-man. You made an entire post without saying doo doo or any bad initials. You almost made it without a personal insult, but not quite. Still, it is progress and this proves you are trainable. We will keep working on it until one day you will be able to make posts that even a normal person (as opposed to an evolutionary fundie who resorts to personal insults at the first sign of disagreement with their FAITH DOCTRINES) could be proud of. The key is forming a little mantra for yourself, I would suggest something like : "Other people are entitled to different views, Other people are entitled to different views" splice in "I won't call people stupid who disagree, I won't call people stupid who disagree, I won't call people stupid who disagree" or even the occasional "I am OK. I am OK." if you start feeling shaky about saying others can disagree. Say those for ten or fifteen minutes, breathe deep and post. Baby steps, baby steps to normalcy.
I liked the entire four corners area, loved Mesa Verde and the La Platas, really everything from Santa Fe north and over.

Grunt

Newway,
Thanks for all the work. I read every word. I admire your efforts however nothing you can say will disuade them. This is a emotional issue to them and like any other group of fundies if you disagree they take it personal. If you ask them what it would take to convince them that evolution is in error, they couldn't honestly tell you as their views are so fixed they can consider no other. They look only for flaws in YOUR reasoning as they consider their own beyond reproach.

Once again, thanks for your time, effort and honesty.

Grunt

114

15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

by JanH in

jw
friends

scientific american runs an article rebutting some of the most common creationist arguments.

short and to the point.. this is the first page.

click for the following ones.. see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleid=000d4fec-7d5b-1d07-8e49809ec588eedf&catid=2.

Grunt

You have chosen an apt name. - Thanks, I earned it in the Marines. I was an 0311 rifleman, hence Grunt. I'm proud of the name and its connotations to the people who shared it with me.
Is a snowflake complicated? - Yeah, I doubt you would have ever made one without mechanical help. They seem to stop a lot of airplanes and lord knows what Norway could've been but for them.

Who's the maker? - I guess the author of the weather and the materials it is made of. Are you going to answer any of these questions, or is it all up to me??? I guess this question kind of sums up our discussion, what started out as our discussion I mean.

Who's the Maker......? Trick question???

Ok, I think God is, though I have no idea of just what or whom God really IS. A little mean I think sometimes, until I hug my wife or eat a good meal, but real smart, awful smart. Must have had an EDUCATION. Just like us, I mean y'all.

How about amino acids spontaneously forming in a test-tube? - I don't know. I don't deal with them. What was in the tube before they formed? Are you asking this question to inform me? Did you think I knew? If I don't, does that make me stupid??? Pathetically idiotic??? Surely not Self-Aggrandizing???

Your barn analogy is not only pathetically idiotic, it is also self-aggrandizing. - How did I know you would insult me again?!? Oh, yeah, I read ahead. Anyway, I how did this tie in to the other? Why did you insult me yet again? Are you going to start talking about exotic cheeses and Thai Shrimp again, if so why? To impress people??? Are your insults and references to my "pathetically idiotic" stuff supposed to make you seem smart? If so isn't that "self-aggrandizing?" Are those insults somehow relevant and I just don't get it? At the risk of seeming like a pathetic idiot, let me give you some advice for the future, Insults are usually a mistake, try and avoid them. They never elevate you in the eyes of your audience and often dilute your arguments. This is especially true in regard to coarse, personally denigrating remarks like those you seem inclined to, they reflect your heart from which your mouth is pouring all this bile. Hmmm, was that an insult? Man, I am stupid!

So you are Mr/Mrs back-to-the-Earth former of barns. --Uh, you uh, you seem to think I was bragging. Why? Building an old barn is no big deal, I'm sorry if that intimidates you. Are you barn challenged??? If it helps, it wasn't that big, though it does have a loft. Its the way I use it that really counts. Its where I keep my old camper and my bikes. It isn't fancy at all. I had gone camping out at Mesa Verde and seen the cliff dwellings and they made me want to build something myself just from nature and without modern tools. I did use tin on the roof though. I mentioned building it because it posed problems with the different sizes and angles on the poles when I tried to keep my structure square and plumb. For me it was very hard to make the round poles work together and keep it all right and sound. To you maybe it would have posed no problem, but then you are used to molecular chain reactions, this was only cedar trees and stone. I was using the insignificance of my little problems which I worked hard to solve as a counter to all the really difficult problems of evolution which I guess you think happened without a problem solver there trying to figure them out. If you didn't get that I'm sorry. If the simplicity of what I said aroused contempt in you then maybe you are a vain, snobbish, small-minded, cur of a little man who.....oops! insults are always a mistake. Insults are always a mistake!

Who gives a stuff? - Is this an English phrase? Norwegian??? Who gives a stuff...oh, are you slumming again? Did you mean to say SHIT??? Ah, now that phrase I have heard and understand. Listen, if you are going to play at being a Harsh Man, a man of the Real World who passed the Acid Test, then you are going to have to get away from "stuff" and "mf" and "doo-doo" ok? Be hot or cold, but not lukewarm. My those old verses do still apply well even when misused, now don't they?

I've painted tons of houses, WOW! (By the way we measure ships in tons, for houses we usually use square feet, but in your case I guess neighborhoods might have been more appropriate.)

replaced scores of windows, GEE WHIZ!!

fixed fleets of cars-NORWAY!!! opps, I mean NO WAY!!!

and mown meadows of grass. - EGADS!!!! You must have been a Witness!

Glad you got out. Of course if a know it all snob stays in it hurts their image more, but hey, that is too high a price to ask you to pay. I'm still glad you found your way out of that stupid mistake you made, if it makes you feel any better, I bought it too. But I'm not buying evolution or AMWAY. I learned my lesson.

So what? Any fool knows that those things cannot be done by chance. - That was my point. None of the things in my life were ever done by accident either. I also appreciate your calling some of the people on your side of the argument fools too, though I'd rather you just let it go. You know what the Scripture says about calling your brother a fool.

You aren't so much missing the point as being too ignorant as to even know that there is a point. - Point??? What point??? Ha, my ignorance AGAIN!!!! There you go. You don't explain your point, you say that I just couldn't understand it because of my ignorance. That ignorance is I guess relative to your great intelligence??? Again. Well, no use wasting time on me, I don't deserve a real reply anyway, right?

Lest you be unduly insulted - Too late but a good laugh ameliorates some of the sting.

I will state that I do like you - I try to like you, but it is a battle I am losing, despite the laughs you've supplied me. Thanks, by the way, for liking me. Man, what must you say to those whom you dislike???

for you are trying.- Thanks, again. I appreciate it and also appreciate the lack of insults.

But it's a big mf of a universe and trying don't count for much.- Ah well, back to that again. Slumming. Oh, and threw in "trying don't count for much." Are you trying to make me feel at home or something??? In my home we don't talk like that. I guess really smart people like you, Oh mower of Meadows , Painter of Houses and Fixer of Cars, (are you a Barrel Rider also??? Do I seem dragon like to you by any chance???) so far by the way those are the only things you've said that impressed me, if you aren't lying of course.

Try thinking, and after that, get some education. - Hmmm, now I have to wonder how you judge my education. We have both made some typos, we both seem to have humble beginnings, we were both deceived by a cult, but you are a genius and I remain an idiot because I think things need a builder and said so??? Maybe the use of big words like MF make you smarter than me??

Without that you are just as worth listening to as a monkey with its finger up its ass and its head firmly buried in a pile of deep doodoo. - Ah, common enough to hint at MF but not common enough to say shit. You walk a fine line professor. Is this your idea of a good analogy, along with the cheese and Thai shrimp? I can see why you didn't appreciate mine.

Harsh? yes.- No, not really. A little sad, a little funny, but harsh??? Not by a long shot. Harsh to me brings back something besides word games on a computer. I am glad that this fits your definition of harsh though. I'm happy for you.

But get used to it, that is the way of evolution - Well then, no wonder I don't agree with it. So this was the basis for your views on evolution??? You make a powerful argument, I mean your masterful use of mf, doo-doo, stuff, and I guess that monkey reference was no accident either, huh? It all ties together in some way I can't fathom, doesn't it?

you can perhaps accrue attention on a board like this - Hmmm, is that an insult to the board at large??? Why??? Are they stupid too???

, or amongst loony creationists,- So you find the board equivalent to a group of "Loony Creationists" once again, what have they done to deserve that remark, wasn't I a big enough target or do you have to claim to be smarter than groups of people to salve your inferiority complex???

but can you go out into the real world? That's the acid test. - I'll have to say that I imagine I have dealt more with the REAL world than you by far. If this seems HARSH to you I know I have. If your remarks seem SMART to you I know I have. The acid test, huh??? Tell me master, how will I know if I have failed??? Will it have anything to do with with what type of cheese I use???

If I don't use My "buddy" Jan -who I don't even know other than electronically, but whom you stupidly associate with me based only on our coalescence of opinion - Most friendships begin with a "coalescence" of opinion, I have been reading your posts and Jan's from the old H20 days. You can make friends online. Ask Windrider? Once again you have to call me stupid, I begin to suspect you have had some serious social problems. If not then it is a wonder. If you go around calling people "stupid" and "MF" and so forth with people in the "real world" you will wind up being treated harshly and find another definition for the word. Of course you aren't talking face to face. I would guess you are the type that flips birds at people in traffic??? Well, I'm not the road rage type, so you are safe.

no doubt can. I can too. can you? - If not then trust in God. Or the Watchtower. - It was a struggle to see how this connected, then I saw, you were saying that you and Jan could make it in the "real world" and pass the "acid test" right? Hmmm, I can't imagine how you could judge me in regards to the real world. Do you know what I do for a living??? I don't think so. Do you assume because I built a barn I am poverty stricken or down and out??? Or somehow smarter than you? Does your vast intelligence make your success in the "real world" guaranteed while my ignorance assures my failure??? Ha. You remind me of a movie I like a lot called the "Princess Bride" there is a character in it called the Sicilian if I remember right, you share some characteristics. Are you sure "Real World" means what you think it does??? I don't it means what you think it does.

As for trusting in God, though I disagree with much that he has done, I would still trust the intelligence of the creator of all that I stand in awe of, than to subject myself to trusting people like you. As for trusting the Watchtower, well, I don't. You use the same kind of arguments they do, mostly namecalling, little substance, as in Apostate or Pathetic Idiot. Ok, they have classier insults than you, but they are a lot harsher. They'll steal your family. You just make noises and imitate an educated person.

Hugs, - No thanks.

G-man. - Glad you like the moniker I gave you.

ps: not all educated people in the world know each other.......there are many of these types - Sadly, many people think "Education" means passing college courses. Education and culture in the "Real World" involve more than a piece of paper on a wall. Now that is ignorance.

As for trusting in God, though I disagree with much that he has done, I would still trust the intelligence of the creator of all that I stand in awe of, than to subject myself to trusting people like you. As for trusting the Watchtower, well, I don't. You use the same kind of arguments you do, mostly namecalling, little substance, as in Apostate or Pathetic Idiot. Ok, they have classier insults than you, but they are a lot harsher. They'll steal your family. You just make noises and imitate an educated person.

Hugs, - No thanks.

G-man. - Glad you like the moniker I gave you. Is that other name some kind of cheese??? Or maybe a rare pastel shrimp???

ps: not all educated people in the world know each other.......there are many of these types - Sadly, many people think "Education" means passing college courses. Education and culture in the "Real World" involve more than a piece of paper on a wall. Now that is ignorance.

pps: edited for typos and several missed opportunities for insult. - alas, you left all the crass ones didn't you? Or could you tell the difference?

Grunt

pps: edited for typos and several missed opportunities for insult. - alas, you left all the crass ones didn't you? Or could you tell the difference?

Grunt

114

15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

by JanH in

jw
friends

scientific american runs an article rebutting some of the most common creationist arguments.

short and to the point.. this is the first page.

click for the following ones.. see http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleid=000d4fec-7d5b-1d07-8e49809ec588eedf&catid=2.

Grunt

Jan, you post a thread with an insulting title leading to a link where a guy claims comets MAY have happened along with just what was needed at just the right time, a man who offers as evidence the fact that a computer program set JUST SO could find the phrase to a play and in fact find a whole play given time, a person that points out happily that an already complicated system could easily be adapted to another complicated system, by luck I guess and then when I question all of that by saying in my life I have never seen complicated systems easily adapted or even simple problems like keeping a non standardized round pole barn square and plumb you offer this:

Extrapolating experiences from our world to ther world of molecules will quickly lead you astray. Molecules constantly form complex chains and patterns. That is their nature. To one who is used to watching wood and stones, which stay put where they are, it sounds very strange indeed, but this is the way the universe works on the molecular level.

..stupidly assume that nothing in the universe can behave in ways different from the materials in your back yard. I don't think your redneck approach to biochemistry really merits any serious response.

Then you tell me I have been thoroughly rebutted in great detail??? I don't know if you are sitting there drunk looking for an argument or what. Telling me it is a "different world" isn't a rebuttal. Try building something with them sometime and you will find stone and wood don't just "stay put where they are" a proper foundation and supports or braces have to be put in at the right depth, width and angles. Maybe to you that does sound"very strange indeed, but this is the way the universe works" in reality. Also, when you insult people they tend to respond in kind, so that is always a mistake. Why don't you try just sticking to the argument? I know my point was simple. But you never answered it. So is yours really. I say an intelligent being designed all of this. You say it was a chain of events that just happened, some of which may have involved help from outer space, comets, or random selection defeating great odds. I don't even say it HAS to be god, you can have it be aliens if it suits you better and you want that outer space connection, just so they are intelligent enough to do the job, cause luck won't get it done. Your buddy chimes in with this, "Your barn analogy is not even wrong, it's totally silly. Not only that, it's pretty damn obvious. Even a child can make the argument that complicate dthings all have makers. Problem is it's not true." I am not trying to be anything but obvious. Name any complicated thing you have ever seen that didn't have a maker? Right. Now, prove it isn't true. Without insults if you can manage it. By the way G-man, the reason I mentioned it was a pole barn was because natural curves are much harder to work with than standard cut lumber. Understand that if you can without using cheese and shrimp.

Grunt