15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

by JanH 114 Replies latest jw friends

  • JanH
    JanH

    Scientific American runs an article rebutting some of the most common creationist arguments. Short and to the point.

    This is the first page. Click for the following ones.

    See http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&catID=2

    - Jan


    15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense Opponents of evolution want to make a place for creationism by tearing down real science, but their arguments don't hold up By John Rennie
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 next

    NAUTILUS SHELL lAYNE KENNEDY Corbis
    NAUTILUS SHELL: Designed or evolved?
    When Charles Darwin introduced the theory of evolution through natural selection 143 years ago, the scientists of the day argued over it fiercely, but the massing evidence from paleontology, genetics, zoology, molecular biology and other fields gradually established evolution's truth beyond reasonable doubt. Today that battle has been won everywhere--except in the public imagination.

    Embarrassingly, in the 21st century, in the most scientifically advanced nation the world has ever known, creationists can still persuade politicians, judges and ordinary citizens that evolution is a flawed, poorly supported fantasy. They lobby for creationist ideas such as "intelligent design" to be taught as alternatives to evolution in science classrooms. As this article goes to press, the Ohio Board of Education is debating whether to mandate such a change. Some antievolutionists, such as Philip E. Johnson, a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley and author of Darwin on Trial, admit that they intend for intelligent-design theory to serve as a "wedge" for reopening science classrooms to discussions of God.

    Besieged teachers and others may increasingly find themselves on the spot to defend evolution and refute creationism. The arguments that creationists use are typically specious and based on misunderstandings of (or outright lies about) evolution, but the number and diversity of the objections can put even well-informed people at a disadvantage.

    To help with answering them, the following list rebuts some of the most common "scientific" arguments raised against evolution. It also directs readers to further sources for information and explains why creation science has no place in the classroom.

    1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law.

    Many people learned in elementary school that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty--above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natu

    Galapagos finches PATRICIA J. WYNNE
    GALPAGOS FINCHES show adaptive beak shapes.
    ral world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses." No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth.

    In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the fact of evolution. The NAS defines a fact as "an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as 'true.'" The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.

    All sciences frequently rely on indirect evidence. Physicists cannot see subatomic particles directly, for instance, so they verify their existence by watching for telltale tracks that the particles leave in cloud chambers. The absence of direct observation does not make physicists' conclusions less certain.

    2. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest.

    "Survival of the fittest" is a conversational way to describe natural selection, but a more technical description speaks of differential rates of survival and reproduction. That is, rather than labeling species as more or less fit, one can describe how many offspring they are likely to leave under given circumstances. Drop a fast-breeding pair of small-beaked finches and a slower-breeding pair of large-beaked finches onto an island full of food seeds. Within a few generations the fast breeders may control more of the food resources. Yet if large beaks more easily crush seeds, the advantage may tip to the slow breeders. In a pioneering study of finches on the Galpagos Islands, Peter R. Grant of Princeton University observed these kinds of population shifts in the wild [see his article "Natural Selection and Darwin's Finches"; Scientific American, October 1991].
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 next

  • Dizzy Cat
    Dizzy Cat

    An interesting set of articles that I shall bookmark and read through.

    I do believe in creation JanH, but also throw in the possibility for a species to adapt due to circumstance etc ... evolve if you like in order to survive.

    At a very base level there is complex mathematics at work within the universe and I still believe that this math shows intelligent design at some stage. I can't completely move away from this thought and dismiss a creative entity.

  • MikeMusto
    MikeMusto

    JanH needs to to read the publication "Life.Howe did it get here..be evolution or Creation.?" Published

    by the WTS. This highly Scientific book approaches the argument from a blank sheet of paper.

    Providing fact both for and against each argument. This book has been applauded the world over

    for its factual statements and quotes. I am sure it has won a literature prize from a third world country.

    And it is better than a college education.

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    "15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense" I wish it would have been called "15 answers to creationist errors" instead as surly the title is too provocative.I feel its quite natural for people to assume there is a creator (that doen't mean there is one though) as we are used to seeing on a human level, complexity come from design. Also the idea that creationists are dishonest often comes accross, maybe some are, I just think they're often just over enthusiastic.

  • Dizzy Cat
    Dizzy Cat

    Enthusiasm doesn't come into the equation for me, Sleepy. If you knew me, you would know that my energy levels can be very low at times and I still hold my belief.

    I am an emotional being though and do work from the heart, I admit. So my theory is based upon feeling, more than wading through journals studying other peoples words and insights.

    I am looking into this area again now, with a fresh pair of eyes, to round out my opinions.

  • Francois
    Francois

    My wife, who used to teach science in middle school here in Atlanta, refused to be drawn into this argument. There was indeed a chapter on evolution in the state-approved text. Her approach to it went something like this:

    We have now reached the chapter on evolution. Read it if you're interested in it. Now, the next chapter is...

    As you know, I believe that evolution is the technique used by the Absolute Reality to transmit life to the edges and ends of the far-flung Universe of Universes. I do not subscribe to the "intelligent designer" nonsense you referenced as a "wedge" issue, useful for the reintroduction of creationism into the schools. My own concepts of evolution, and of God, for that matter, are quite unique as you know and fit no previous pattern.

    And thanks for the useful article. I will shortly inhale the whole thing.

    -francois

    Edited by - Francois on 4 August 2002 11:9:47

  • JanH
    JanH

    sleepy,

    Belief in a creator is one thing. No doubt understandable, as most people tend to believe whatever their parents or their culture has taught them.

    Repeating constantly the most stupid, ignorant "arguments" about something they do not at all understand, in face of overwhelming evidence they for emotional reasons fail to absorb, is something else entirely.

    The arguments rebutted here are pure nonsense, and should be called so. Many half-believers have the impression that there is at least some scientific merit to the creationists' claims. Others believe there is a scientific opposition to evolutionary biology..Both are false.

    Sometimes, you just have to get that point across.

    - Jan

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    "The arguments rebutted here are pure nonsense"

    I don't think all of them are.They may not be correct but doen't make them nonsense just not true.

    Evolutionary science as it stands requires a mechanism and enviroment in which to work, if they are not there it dosen't work, and we are back asking questions.We can not know fully that it works for every thing on earth as we don't fully understand everything.Maybe it does.

    But if it turns out that it doesn't work that doesn't mean there is a creator just that our understanding of the universe is not quite right.This has happened many times before with the understanding of gravity for example.Just because newton wasn't fully correct didn't mean god made things fall it just ment the understanding of gravity needed adjusting.

    Consciousness it not yet understood and is what we are, untill that is sorted we don't have nearly a complete picture.

  • patio34
    patio34

    Thanks JanH for the links and the article. I'm printing them out and will "inhale" them, as Francois said.

    The reasons for non-belief, imo, are so numerous and solid, that I don't even get into discussions with creationists any more. It's simple what Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." In one of his books, he proposed that if someone were to say there's a dragon that lives in my garage, but you can't see him, smell him, or detect him with any tests, then there's good reason to simply dismiss such a claim. The same would go for a supernatural being with no quantifiable testable qualities.

    Creationists have the burden of proof on them, not the other way around. If there were proof, there would be no need for faith.

    It's one thing to look at fossils, etc. and have the scientific theory that they evolved. It's quite another to say that a supernatural, invisible being made them all. The 1st is a physical theory supported by fossils and known tendencies of species. The 2nd presupposes something that has never been observed uncontestably by anyone and there is simply no evidence. Why would we believe, and structure our lives, around something for which there is simply no proof or evidence, just other people's sayso?

    Pat

  • JanH
    JanH

    sleepy,

    I don't think all of them are.They may not be correct but doen't make them nonsense just not true.

    True. Many untrue things are actually very clever, and very useful. The creationist claims aren't. They are nonsense. Most of them are, as I think Fermi said (about something else) "not even wrong."

    Consciousness it not yet understood and is what we are, untill that is sorted we don't have nearly a complete picture.

    True, and I suspect it's because we have no clue what it is. Perhaps it doesn't really exist, but is just a grab bag for what passes as thinking and relating to the environment in the human way.

    - Jan

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit