Posts by Grunt

If my parents ever shun me I will rent a billboard. I would try and get it as close as possible to the Kingdom Hall.
I would also have some magnetic signs on my vehicles, "Ask ME about Jehovah's Witnesses." I might offer to give some informational discussions to local churches for free.

Grunt

23

Disfellowshipping Changes

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

paraphrase of the watchtower 1955, page 607:.

quote from the watchtower august 1st 1974 issue, page 465:.

quote from the watchtower august 1st 1980 issue, page 19:.

Grunt

Thanks U.D.,
Great job. I am saving this one. How tragic that this bunch throws away the New Testament commands to love and instead cling to the law that was done away with. I guess they will use the hair of a red cow to determine whether a wife has been faithful too, just like the Old Testament said. What a pack of hypocrites and fools with the hypocrites in charge.
I am always amused with the way they quote scripture too. For instance in the quote 1 Cor.5:11,13:

"anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man....Remover the wicked man from among yourselves."

I find the verse they left out interesting:

Here it is:
12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside?

Seems to me that verse twelve says the only ones they should judge are those still claiming to be "brothers." They love to try to hold on to control though don't they? Little piss-ants. They make me want to puke.

Grunt

10

WT Intransigence Will Be (Is?) Their Undoing

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

their stubborn refusal to throw open a whole host of controversial issues -- blood, chronology, congregational discipline, child molestation policy, etc., etc.

-- to reappraisal or free and unfettered debate by the rapidly diminishing long-time jw loyalists, many of whom are cos and dos and who would urge reform and reason, would seem to seal the doom of the organization as we know it.

the clock is ticking against them and there is no safety valve on the boiler.

Grunt

Pistoff,
I am so sorry for your son. Regarding this bunch, I hate them too.

Regarding this cult going mainstream, I think that might have been in the cards at one time, but isn't any longer. If anything I think they are now circling the wagons and becoming more cultish and demanding. Look at the recent KM and the changes at the official site.

While they do change frequently, the changes are rarely for the better! It isn't as though they got the most reasonable people together and said sincerely, "What is the right thing to do?" They get a bunch of kiss-ups and company men together with their bosses and then ask "What's best for the Organization? Especially legally???" They draw their answers from old Watchtowers.

The good thing is that there are so many more of US. When they only had a relatively few disconnected ex-witnesses they could get away with a lot more. Now we are probably growing faster than they are. I believe junior acknowledged about 60,000 a year df'd. Who knows how many disassociate and fade??? Plus, I really do believe they lose the best and brightest and keep the most docile and narrow-minded. For many the only REAL reason they stay is the investment of years they would have to admit as wasted if they leave and the pain of having been so gullible. I think we can all agree on that. I really can't believe I ever bought their shit. I can make lots of excuses, ignorance of the Bible, of their history, of many of their real beliefs (mediatorship) and of course my family being in. Still, not matter what I was a damn fool and I hurt my children my wife and myself by being so blind and stupid as to believe their hogwash.

Mainstream, no, an unattainable goal for this cult in my opinion. I see them as getting smaller, tighter and more spiteful until they disappear.

19

Black Balled

by WildTurkey in

jw
friends

well all the brothers that i work for out of town has black balled me cause im disassociated, but they are working a known child molester, he is repentant lol, hope they protect their kids.

i got a phone call tonight and they told me that the dent shops in denver, tulsa, amarillo, dont want me.

hope yall still love me.

Grunt

Hi WildTurkey,
Sorry about the shunning. I hope they hire someone whose quality equals their own. Good luck to you.

Grunt

27

Are westerners the evil of the world?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

.

are westerners the evil of the world?.

western lands have gleefully exploited the worlds resources over the past 200 years.most of us have taken advatage of what our economies have offered to us.but has and does our life style not only ruin the earth but ensures that other countries remain pour.. the goods we demand and are used to having ,have a cost to the environment .we want them cheap , this ensures low wages where big western companies can get cheap labour.the size and power of western business means that pourer countries cant grow economically.the big western business are so powerful that they earn more money than entire countries.. suvival of the fittest has taken its toll on mankind while we live in comfort the majority of earth inhabitants don't.how much is our fault?

Grunt

I feel pretty good about what we (Western Nations/US) have done and what we have offered. There is no community in the world, that I know of, that doesn't have people in the USA sending money home. In a lot of countries that is their major source of income. I would imagine that is true of any western nation with a large immigrant population working there.

The selfish ones are those who leave those countries to get an education and are supposed to go back but instead stay and make the money. So many of our doctors in the US are now foreign, many from countries in desperate need of doctors. I think this is symptomatic of the attitude of the countries.

I think the western nations are held to a much, much higher standard than the other rich nations of the world are. I wonder how much food Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are sending to the starving African nations? I just heard Bush is promising billions which I don't think we can afford right now with everything else on our plate. I imagine England is giving substantial amounts.

How much do other more affluent African states give? How about South Africa? Everything I hear is that they are SELLING them food, not donating. I also read that these starving nations have sold and are still selling food for cash to other nations.

Grunt

8

Cruel Irony and Jurisdiction

by Grunt in

jw
friends

although it has probably been discussed.

i find the latest km on disfellowshipping to be a particularly annoying pack of half-truths.

first of all, its title "display christian loyalty when a relative is disfellowshipped" says it is about relatives who are disfellowshipped and then in the first paragraph it says it applies "equally to those who are disfellowshipped and those who disassociate themselves.".

Grunt

Wolfgirl,

I am so sorry. I hate to say it but I think most of the Witnesses who are willing to shun close relatives see being cut off from important news like yours was as part of the "price" of being cut off. Now if it were MONEY or something like that, it is amazing how quickly you can be informed. At least that has been my experience.

Grunt

15

The More xJW Discussion Boards The Better!

by IslandWoman in

jw
friends

bboyneko's discussion board fills an xjw need.

channel c fills an xjw need.

jwd fills an xjw need.

Grunt

The more x JW's the better I say. I think a vocal ex-JW's can be more effective than a congregation of current JW's. As most people already see them as a cult, a little verification of that opinion goes a long, long way. The non-informed public that I have discussed JW beliefs with react strongly to a lot, esp. to shunning family members and the class system within the cult.

Grunt

8

Cruel Irony and Jurisdiction

by Grunt in

jw
friends

although it has probably been discussed.

i find the latest km on disfellowshipping to be a particularly annoying pack of half-truths.

first of all, its title "display christian loyalty when a relative is disfellowshipped" says it is about relatives who are disfellowshipped and then in the first paragraph it says it applies "equally to those who are disfellowshipped and those who disassociate themselves.".

Grunt

Thanks, Outnfree, I am always hoping that a lurker will actually read and think about the situation. If they weren't a little openminded they wouldn't be lurking. I did think the part they left out was kind of interesting. The example they put in of two kids blackmailing their mom into attending by first saying they loved her and next saying she wouldn't be hearing from them again made me want to puke. Looks like I would be so used to it by now that it wouldn't bother me, but it does.

Grunt

8

Cruel Irony and Jurisdiction

by Grunt in

jw
friends

although it has probably been discussed.

i find the latest km on disfellowshipping to be a particularly annoying pack of half-truths.

first of all, its title "display christian loyalty when a relative is disfellowshipped" says it is about relatives who are disfellowshipped and then in the first paragraph it says it applies "equally to those who are disfellowshipped and those who disassociate themselves.".

Grunt

Although it has probably been discussed. I find the latest KM on disfellowshipping to be a particularly annoying pack of half-truths. First of all, its title "Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative is Disfellowshipped" says it is about relatives who are disfellowshipped and then in the first paragraph it says it applies "equally to those who are disfellowshipped and those who disassociate themselves."

As usual they twist scriptures and try to make people who walked away and disagreed with them seem like those condemned at 1 Cor.5:11,13:

"anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man....Remover the wicked man from among yourselves."

Those don't fit people who leave over conscience or because they are sick of the cult. To apply it to them is a lie.

However, I think an honest person can see how these sins do fit the Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization.

Greed? Vows of poverty for their workers? A "cultural" society in Mexico until money wasn't affected? How about the most cruel greed of all, the one addressed in this KM, demanding total devotion to the organization at the individuals expense? They don't care how many mom's get frozen out by their children as this article later elevates to near heroism.

Revile - To regard or treat as vile; to use abusive or contemptuous language in speaking to or about; to call bad names.

If every preacher or church they ever reviled were able to have a dollar penalty levied for defamation then this bunch would be broke. They are using this very article to revile any who have left the cult for any reason at all and to extort shunning towards them from relatives still "in."

Extort - To get by violence, threats, misuse of authority; exact or wrest from.

Already mentioned one instance but to me the misuse of authority just in the cases regarding Ms. Anderson, Bill and the sexually abused and then disfellowshipped kids and their parents speak well to the misuse of authority and the obedience they wrest from followers. The violence done to so many innocent loving hearts by this bunch speaks to the quality of their own hearts.

Idolatry - Excessive devotion or reverence for some person or thing.

Their self administered titles tell you a lot. Claiming to be the only true religion, the only organization being used by God, the channel, the "Faithful and Discreet Slave." They demand idolatry while bragging on being humble.

I find the verse they left out of the Corinthians quote interesting as it seems to me it says anyone who leaves is beyond even their twisted view of their "jurisdiction."

Here it is:
12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside?

I am not "inside." I walked out and shut the door. I don't claim to be a "brother." I quickly inform anyone who is interested of all the reasons I am not a "brother" in this cult. They are condemned by the very scriptures they quote.

The example of their model for behavior says it all, to paraphrase the KM's example

"We love you Mom, but uh, unless it involves something really important (MONEY!) we won't be in touch again.
Love ya! bye forever."