Hi IP_SEC, how are you? I decided to find all the dates and references and post them on this thread because of the topic, so that anyone who is currently studying with the JW and cannot spend a lot of time researching can read this all in one spot.
Maybe a Witness or two will also read and perhaps this one time a "New Light" may begin to dawn on their horizon.
Pickled
JoinedPosts by Pickled
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Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, July 1, 1990, Pg. 26, “Settling the Universal Issue for Good”
10 By now, more than 70 years after that battle in the heavens, only “a short period of time” remains before the war of Jehovah’s great day breaks out and God vividly displays himself as Jehovah of armies to the present generation of mankind.—Revelation 12:12; Zechariah 14:3. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, March 1, 1984, Pg. , “Kingdom Unity a Reality Today”
Why “Kingdom” Unity
12 Why do we say, Kingdom unity? Well, is not God’s Kingdom the theme of the entire Bible? So, then, should not the Kingdom be a unifying theme in our lives? It has been thrilling to see the fulfillment of Jesus’ sign showing that the Kingdom was established in the heavens in that momentous year 1914. And **Jesus has told us** to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time.
**He has told us that the “generation” of 1914—the year that the sign began to be fulfilled—”will by no means pass away until all these things occur.”** (Matthew 24:34) Some of that “generation” could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that “the end” is much closer than that!
It is important to compare the things that they claimed Jesus said with the things that they are claiming Jesus is saying today concerning this same topic. Is Jesus saying the same thing today that he said all the way up to 1995? Why did Jesus change his mind?
Isn't Jesus the one who has a definite plan? Doesn't Jesus get his instructions from Jehovah, his father?
Isn't the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" the one who Jesus appointed as HIS "Channel of Communication"?
If you were Jesus, is this the group you would have appointed? Based on what? -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, November 15, 1982, Page 7, “Flee While There is Yet Time!”
"Yes, it is very urgent to pay attention to the work that God is having done in the earth today in fulfillment of Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” Those who do pay heed and flee will be living testimony forever to the certainty of the Bible’s promise, which says: “Jehovah will not forsake his people.” (Psalm 94:14) And Jesus said: “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”—Matthew 24:13.
The time for God to execute judgment against Christendom and her “holy place” is near. The desolater is soon to strike, ending any further opportunity to flee to Jehovah’s protection. Have you already fled to the symbolic “mountains”? If not, then do not delay. It means your very life.—Zephaniah 1:14-18; 2:3." -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
While studying with the Witnesses, I asked about the emphasis on dates and warnings about not allowing any planning for the future to get in the way of the preaching work.
The answer I received from several was that since 1975, the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" reorganized and has replaced an emphasis on those previous things with an emphasis on the preaching work. The "Light" continues to get brighter and brighter, and all of the "New Light" is now about those basic truths in the Bible and the preaching work, and those messages that were "over zealous" and "misunderstood" are no longer part of the message.
That means that the Witnesses who made the mistake of believing the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" up to 1975, and were reprimanded for it, can now breathe a sigh of relief because this same "Faithful and Discrete Slave" is longer doing the same thing. This means that the members no longer receive literature that includes warnings or interpretations about when the end of the world will occur. This means that the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" has stopped sending the members those messages that created the dilemma of whether or not to interpret them literally.
Yes, that's what that means. It means that the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" humbly recognized the chaos they created among their faithful believers, and have vowed since 1975 to never do that to them again.
Watchtower, March 1, 1988, Page 21, Childbearing Among God’s People
Childbearing Today
15 How should Christians view marriage and childbearing today, in this “time of the end”? (Daniel 12:4) It is truer than ever that “the scene of this world is changing,” or, as another translation puts it, “the present scheme of things is rapidly passing away.”—1 Corinthians 7:31, Phillips.
16 Now, as never before, “the time left is reduced.” Yes, only a limited time remains for Jehovah’s people to finish the work he has given them to do, namely: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)
That work must be accomplished before the end comes. It is, therefore, appropriate for Christians to ask themselves how getting married or, if married, having children will affect their share in that vital work. -
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Anyone have any thoughts about this?
by Connaughty incheck out this movie trailer scene that supports creation.. http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playgroundvideo3.swf.
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i thought that it was interesting.
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Pickled
Velvetann, you said that you feel it is obvious that you have been hiding your head in the sand out of fear.
Your head, or your mind, is where all logic and reasoning takes place. When you embrace a religion that insists that you adopt their logic and abandon your own, it creates anxiety. Anxiety is an emotion that started out as a thought. Your normal and natural initial thoughts were to compare your own existing logic with the logic you felt you were required to adopt. That is a built in survival tool; evaluating, comparing. When you began to discover that you were not allowed to do that openly, that’s when the internal anxiety began. When you got far enough down that road of abandoning your own logic and replacing it with theirs, you became dependent on their thoughts. You began to find it difficult at that point to fully engage your own independent thoughts as a human with a mind. You felt guilty if you did as though you were betraying those who insisted that their logic was the only logic you were supposed to have.
That is how a cult works. That is why it takes so long to recover and lose the fear. It takes a while because it is not just a matter of leaving. When you leave you take your same now handicapped brain with you. That can be very scary to wander back out into life again with all of your new mental limitations and no one to tell you what to think anymore. It takes time to regain your senses. It takes time to rebuild your confidence in your own ability to think for yourself. It takes time to recognize day by day that you still have the same thinking abilities you had before you joined the cult. It takes time to be able to recognize once again that you have an identity as an individual apart from the collective group. It takes time to retrain yourself to trust your own thoughts. It takes time to reintroduce your own thoughts to yourself as valid thoughts.
When someone has suffered a brain injury, everyone feels compassion for the one who they know is going to need some time to regain what they once had. When someone comes out of a coma and appears to have recovered physically, there is still that period of time needed to catch up with the rest of the world mentally.
You are no different. Your mind needs compassion as well. I think personally that tucking your head away in the sand for a time was a survival instinct, and isn’t it great that you recognized that and allowed yourself to act on it this time? That’s progress. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
-
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Pickled
By their own claims, the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” had “…NO SCRIPTURAL GROUNDS FOR ANY CLAIMS” leading up to or during 1975.
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” was appointed in 1919 based on the fact that they were providing the “Proper Food” (accurate teaching), at the “Proper Time” (aware of the correct time of Jesus presence).
The “Food” and the “Times” that were being “dispensed” from 1879 to 1919 and beyond….also have been retracted as “misunderstandings.” They did not believe in 1919 that Jesus returned in 1914. They were completely unaware at the time they were appointed that “Faithful and Discrete Slave” that the Master was even knocking at all.
This means that from 1879 up to 1975, the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” was dispensing improper food at improper times.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the one and only time Jesus inspected the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” and APPROVED them for that role, was in 1919.
They believe that Jesus personally appointed a group of people to dispense the secret meanings and hidden interpretations of the scriptures while at the same time that same group was dispensing numerous erroneous teachings that they later confirmed were false.
If they managed to fool Jesus in 1919 then possibly they are capable of fooling you as well. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Yearbook 2000, Pages 196-197, Czech Republic
“Six Thousand Years of Human Existence”
In 1969 the Watchtower magazine in Czech began publishing a series of articles based on the book Life Everlasting—In Freedom of the Sons of God. Chapter 1, under the subheading “Six Thousand Years of Human Existence Closing,” contained an explanation of the Jubilee and of Bible chronology. This material influenced some in a positive way; it also led to many questions and much speculation.
The office in Czechoslovakia sent a letter dated February 22, 1972, to all congregations. It set out a lengthy explanation of reasons why we should not make any definite assertions about the date when Armageddon will strike. It pointed out that no publication of the Society had said that Armageddon will come in a certain year.
The letter concluded: “Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world are familiar with these facts, and no one should add any personal claims as to what will happen before or during the year 1975. -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Just a quick recap…….
“Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.”
---- Kingdom Ministry, May 1974
“Did Jesus mean that we should adjust our financial and secular affairs so that our resources would just carry us to a certain date that we might think marks the end?
If our house is suffering serious deterioration, should we let it go, on the assumption that we would need it only a few months longer? ……This is not the kind of thinking that Jesus advised.”
----Watchtower, July 15, 1976
“Circumstances such as poor health or responsibilities in connection with your family may limit what you can do in the field ministry. And yet, the pioneer ranks include many who have health limitations, as well as some persons with families. But these brothers and sisters are able to regulate their lives so that they can care for their responsibilities and still put in the 1,200 hours a year, an average of 100 hours a month in the field ministry, required of pioneers.”
----Kingdom Ministry, May 1974
“Or, if someone in the family possibly needs special medical care, should we say, ‘Well, we’ll put it off because the time is so near for this system of things to go’?
This is not the kind of thinking that Jesus advised.”
----Watchtower, July 15, 1976 -
75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
Watchtower, July 15, 1976, A Solid Basis for Confidence, Pgs. 440-441
BE CAREFUL TO KEEP A BALANCED VIEW
10 Jehovah’s word or message is true when it speaks about our entering into God’s rest now and remaining in it through the “great tribulation,” after which Christ’s thousand-year reign will transform the earth into a paradise garden. God’s word is indeed ‘sharp like a two-edged sword.’
It will show what we really are, revealing what our thoughts and the intentions of our heart are.
Are we serving Jehovah God because we love him, trust him and have full confidence in what he says?
Or are we ‘becoming weary in well-doing,’ looking for a certain date primarily as bringing a relief to ourselves, with little concern for the lives of other people? (Gal. 6:9)
Are we appreciative of all the good things we have had from Jehovah and from association with his people?
Have not the things we have learned helped us in our family lives?
Do we not love the many genuine friends we have now gained as a result of knowing the truth?—Mark 10:29, 30.
11 It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives
according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year.
They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for.
But they have missed the point of the Bible’s warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date.
12 What do Jesus’ own words show concerning the proper attitude as to the end—to look for a date, or what?
He said: “Pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare. For it will come in upon all those dwelling upon the face of all the earth. Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur, and in standing before the Son of man.”—Luke 21:34-36.
13 Did Jesus mean that we should adjust our financial and secular affairs so that our resources would just carry us to a certain date that we might think marks the end?
If our house is suffering serious deterioration, should we let it go, on the assumption that we would need it only a few months longer?
Or, if someone in the family possibly needs special medical care, should we say, ‘Well, we’ll put it off because the time is so near for this system of things to go’?
This is not the kind of thinking that Jesus advised.
They meant for us to be absolutely confident that the day will not come one moment later than Jehovah purposes. Peter said that this should prompt us to “holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion,” being watchful that we are living by Bible principles and that we are busy proclaiming the Kingdom message and convincing people of the urgency of turning to God. (2 Pet. 3:11, 12)
All of us can make improvements in our worship of God, cementing a closer relationship with him. Perhaps we have up to this time done the best we can, and have made improvements as we went along.
Does the fact that the end is very near, then, mean to us that we should make big changes in our way of living and serving God?
Not necessarily so.
However, there may be major improvements that we Scripturally need to make.
Also, if there are areas in our life in which we can ‘buy out’ time from vain pursuits in this system we should do it. In this way, many have continued to experience the joy of full-time “pioneer” service over the years. All of us can check to see what we can do.—Eph. 5:15, 16.