outaservice
They are both GODs as well..Just that you never hear Jesus be called 'GOD THE FATHER', and you never hear THE FATHER call his son 'his GOD'..therefore..even though Jesus is GOD, he is still not 'THE FATHER'..He has kingship, he has ALL DIETY but that is through his FATHER (is this so hard to believe)..
Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
God and Father of Jesus does NOT have a GOD.
John 15:26
26"When the (A)Helper comes, (B)whom I will send to you from the Father, that is (C)the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, (D)He will testify about Me,
Notice there is a Spirit of Truth also, then there many more SPIRITS of Jehovah than just the HOLY SPIRIT
How Many?..i dont know - have to keep counting but i know you can take a look a this verse
The SEVEN Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5)
I'll stick to this verse regarding
I Cor. 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Philippians 2: 5-11
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did NOT COUNT EQUALITY with God a thing to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
here in Philippians, you see the Paul the apostle stating jesus being 100% man (likeness of men), 100% God (for of God), but yet Paul says that Jesus did not consider himself EQUAL to his FATHER..and at the end every confession to Jesus Christ being our lord is for what, for the GLORY OF GOD who? GOD THE FATHER
Also, in regards to the following verse
"I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
Nowhere here does Jesus say WE ARE ONE "GOD"..One in likeness how then?? lets see what the scriptures tell us
John 17: 11
11And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father,keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
Some things jump out quickly..one WHO GAVE JESUS name to him? his HOLY FATHER (GOD THE FATHER), then in continuation of the prayer to his FATHER, this is what his request is about the disciples "that they may be one, even as we are one"
also jump to John 17:21
21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Interesting repeat and a continue proceeds in the Gospel of John..
Posts by MOG
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43Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses
by JH inshould one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.
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MOG
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343
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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MOG
An inaccurate translation of Exodus 3:13 leads to a faulty understanding of this verse. In numerous Bibles one can read the question: ‘What is his name?’ as in Judges 13:17, when Manoah wanted to know the name (that is, the pronunciation of the name) of the angel who came to meet him. On the other hand, the Israelites asked Moses: ‘How is his name?’ – that is, ‘what does His name mean?’ or ‘what does His fame mean?’
One can verify that in Hebrew the interrogation ‘what is,’ or ‘how is,’ is ‘mâ,’ and ‘who is,’ is ‘mî.’ Thus, there’s a big difference between asking to know a name because one is in ignorance of it (as in Ezra 5:4) and asking the meaning of a name, which one already knows, as in Genesis 32:27 where the angel asks Jacob to remind him of the meaning (He will supplant) of his name, which meaning was already known to him (Genesis 27:36), in order to give him a new one (He will contend – Genesis 32:28).
Thus, when Moses asked God: ‘How is his name?’ God gave the explanation ‘I shall [prove to] be who (or what) I shall [prove to] be’ (èhyèh ashèr èhyèh). Even here, regrettably, numerous translators are influenced by Greek philosophy on The Being as existing that was developed by Plato in some of his works, including ‘Parmenides.’ For example, the Septuagint translated this passage as ‘I am the Being (égô éimi o ôn in Greek), or, ‘I am He who is.’ Yet Aquila's Translation (which is more faithful to Hebrew) translates this sentence as, I shall be: I shall be (ésomai ésomai in Greek).
As you can see from a study on the translation of this sentence, the difficulty results from translators who want to explain this translation by means of their personal beliefs, which are very often influenced by Greek philosophy; otherwise there is no difficulty. For example, one finds the word èhyèh just before Exodus 3:12 and just after Exodus 4:12, 15, and here translators have no problem translating it as ‘I shall [prove to be] be with you.’ Moreover, the Talmud retains this explanation for the meaning of the Name.
A better translation of Exodus 3:13, 14 would then be: Then Moses said to God, ‘Look, I’ll go to the children of Israel and tell them the God of our ancestors has sent me to you, but they’re going to ask, How is his name? What should I tell them?’ And God told Moses, ‘I shall [prove to] be what I shall [prove to] be! Just tell the children of Israel that I shall [prove to] be has sent you -
343
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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MOG
Real ONE
you are absolutely correct Jesus is GOD but not GOD THE FATHER...nobody is disputing that (I hope not)..even if "THE GOD" was both, show me the 3 in 1..Up until the DUET..the Trinity theory falls apart
have you ever notice that Jesus always talks about GOD THE FATHER relationship, but where in the scriptures does he talk about "GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT". If God the Holy Spirit is GOD, why is it that the HOLY SPIRIT who is the one that conceived Jesus in Mary is not called his father, since he is the supposed GOD that conceived him... -
343
I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!
by Witness 007 insome bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!
the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.
now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..
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MOG
until someone can prove to me several verses that Jesus says he is GOD, and GOD the FATHER says he has A GOD, and that the HOLY SPIRIT is A GOD..I stick to what the Hebrews believed in..ONE GOD
"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
"...that the GOD OF OUR LORD Jesus Christ, the FATHER..." (Eph. 1:17).
"The SEVEN Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5) - hmmm..this kills a TRINITY theory...
Why is it that in John 1:1 when taking original GREEK to ENGLISH there are 3 Definite articles for "THE WORD" one DEFINITE article for "THE GOD" and no article for "GOD". Remember that in Greek there is no INDEFINTE article, in English there are 2 "then" and "a"..If you look at the New Testatment you have, do you see the word A? of course, although there is none in Greek - therefore you have to go with the sterling rule of conduct "aesthetics MUST take a back seat to accuracy of meaning IF accuracy of meaning is critical...ESPECIALLY if it affects doctrinal understanding!
If we take the original GREEK to ENGLISH translation of Acts 28:6- same problem with the John 1:1
elegon auton einai qeon (sorry this is a cut and paste)
English word for word
'they were saying he was god'
Now take a look at what the translation in your bible reads
they were saying he was "a" god
Now we know that there is no doctrine in respect to this passage..secondly, its obvious by saying "he was god' in Greek that they were speaking in INDEFINITENESS, where translate over to English we add that 'a' to support this.. -
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"We NEVER PROPHESIED about 1975"
by Honesty in2:24 through 5:12 of the following video says they did:.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiezx74p5ck&feature=related.
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MOG
all I can say is WOW!!!
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Does "God" Jehovah hate us for leaving the Watchtower society? Why!
by Witness 007 indozens of false prophecies and doctrinal "flip flops" but witnesses still claim........"but its the truth!
so, if there is a god or jehovah can he blame me for having doubts????
if i was in the governing body i would have learnt my lesson from russell's false predictions 1879 1914 etc........instead it continued........rutherford 1925......w.w 2........and franz "god's oricle" surley he got the message..........nope.....1975 and the generation of 1914....surely god will be merciful and say:"hey witness 007, it's not your fault!...they weren't speaking for me....no wonder you stumbled...come in to paradise!
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One important thing left out is how does the WATCHTOWER SOCIETY view on those who ARE FAlSE PROPHETS..lets take a look at their OWN material
The Watchtower, October 15, 1958, p. 613
"'Sometime between April 15 and 23, 1957, Armageddon will sweep the world! Millions of persons will perish in its flames and the land will be scorched.' So prophesied a certain California pastor, Mihran Ask, in January, 1957. Such false prophets tend to put the subject of Armageddon in disrepute."
Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 23
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end of the world,' even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them. But what about today? Today we have the evidence required, all of it. And it is overwhelming! All the many, many parts of the great sign of the 'last days' are here, together with verifying Bible chronology."
Paradise Restored to Mankind--By Theocracy, 1972 ed., pp. 353-354
"Jehovah, the God of the true prophets, will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having His own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets. False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying who they really are."
Seems like the Watchtower has form an opinion on what a false prophet is, do we use the same measure on them -
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joke of the day - hope you havent heard this one
by MOG inpastor's business card .
a new pastor was visiting in the homes of his parishioners.
at one house it seemed obvious that someone was at home, but no answer came to his repeated knocks at the door.
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MOG
Pastor's Business Card
A new pastor was visiting in the homes of his parishioners. At one house it seemed obvious that someone was at home, but no answer came to his repeated knocks at the door.
Therefore, he took out a business card and wrote "Revelation 3:20" on the back of it and stuck it in the door.
When the offering was processed the following Sunday, he found that his card had been returned. Added to it was this cryptic message, "Genesis 3:10."
Reaching for his Bible to check out the citation, he broke up in gales of laughter. Revelation 3:20 begins "Behold, I stand at the door and knock." Genesis 3:10 reads, "I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid for I was naked."
Remember when the funniest jokes were the clean ones? -
17
My JW uncle died -- going to visitation.
by reneeisorym ini was a 5th generation jw so i have my whole entire family in this borg.. my uncle died yesterday.
he was the one that owned the antebellum home i grew up in (built in 1837).
his son was a very dear friend of mine because we were close to the same age.
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MOG
My condolences for your family lost.. let me touch something that has helped me that you may already know but may need to reaffirm it in your heart, when confronted with family that are JW or old past relationships of JW what you have to ask yourself..did you EVER leave Jehovah? not the man made religion?..do you not know that Jesus said "his body is the temple"? did you not know that Jehovah does not reside in man made temples/kingdom halls no longer? Don't be ever be afraid - even in this trial. If ever a JW ask you "to come back Jehovah" (meaning to be a JWitness again) - let them know "I never left Jehovah" (unless your saying you actually did leave him).. "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Corner Stone; In Whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD" (Eph. 2:21). i am sorry for the lost of your uncle once again May Jehovah bless you..
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To all those that are seriously thinking about going back to JWism...
by nvrgnbk inmaybe you should.. apparently the reasons some had for leaving had nothing to do with truth or reality or what's factual.. some left because they got discouraged or were offended or felt slighted.. if that's why you left- an unkind word, not being invited to some social function, nepotism in the hierarchy, being overlooked for privileges, annoying personalities, etc.- you're in a very unsettled place.. you'll soon discover that people that aren't jehovah's witnesses can be unkind, lack hospitality, show favortism, and be obnoxious.. then what?.
you'll go crawling back?.
if on the other hand you left because you realize that the extraordinary claims made by the religion are completely without support, you may occasionally miss friends and family lost and reminisce about some random happy memories experienced but most likely never feel tempted to return.. the jw religion, like most any other religion, is full of people that want to be told what to do and what to think.. it's easier that way.. thinking can be exhausting.
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they almost got me to go back with the LOVE BOMBING....until I walked out the assembly when it was done and ran for my dear life..and acted like LOT, scared if Iturned back I will be a pillar of salt..
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Does "God" Jehovah hate us for leaving the Watchtower society? Why!
by Witness 007 indozens of false prophecies and doctrinal "flip flops" but witnesses still claim........"but its the truth!
so, if there is a god or jehovah can he blame me for having doubts????
if i was in the governing body i would have learnt my lesson from russell's false predictions 1879 1914 etc........instead it continued........rutherford 1925......w.w 2........and franz "god's oricle" surley he got the message..........nope.....1975 and the generation of 1914....surely god will be merciful and say:"hey witness 007, it's not your fault!...they weren't speaking for me....no wonder you stumbled...come in to paradise!
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MOG
the only ones not calling themselves false prophets are the same ones making false predictions..every single time..