Posts by wobble

22

Why are letters from John and Paul included in the Bible?

by Lore in

jw
friends

i don't see much difference between paul writing a letter to the corinthian congregation and the gb writing a letter to the timbucktoo congregation.. is what paul wrote to the ephesians just as fallible and subject to 'new light' as the letters the wts writes to congregations today?.

if a letter from the governing body today which says it's immoral to have an organ transplant can be dead wrong and changed later.

can the letter from paul which says it's wrong to eat blood be dead wrong and subject to change later?.

wobble

I think that we who have come from a religion that says its teachings are based on the Bible, and teaches that it is the word of god and inerrant, are approaching this from the wrong end of the telescope.

Long before there was a (Christian) Bible, before any sort of canon of Christian writings, there was a vibrant, powerful, living faith, a faith that was spreading throughout the Roman Empire, not just because of the efforts of Paul of Tarsus, but spreading before his conversion, and beyond his sphere of influence after his ministry started.

That faith did not spring from, nor depend upon, any "New Testament" writings.

Just as we would have a workable and accepted Theory of Evolution without the fossil record, we would have a christian faith without the N.T

Without the N.T it might not have survived until the 21st century, but I rather think it would have.

The religion came first, the writings later, as with Islam.

69

What was the last meeting you ever went to?

by lilbluekitty in

i figured out it's been 4 months and 5 days since my last meeting ever.

july 10th, it was a sunday.

i hadn't been there in 2 months or so and decided to see if anyone noticed i'd been gone.

wobble

I think it was 23rd March 2008 for me, it was the night of the first TMS/SM after the memorial that year. A Tuesday.

I just stood outside the KH just after the "Amen" was said, and I thought, I am never, I can never, going back there again.

It was strange, I had been born in 58 years earlier, so it felt weird to say to myself that I was leaving the only world I had known, and maybe leaving all my family behind in that world. I felt free immediately though, I had made the decision, on my own totally, even my wife knew nothing of this, and a new life awaited.

There was a feeling of sadness too, I had grown up with the people in that Hall, I had seen them married, seen their children born and seen them grow, most were lovely people in so many ways.

I had no choice though, I could no longer be a part of it, even in a small way, now I knew TTATT.

15

Witnesses and Consensus of Bible Scholarship

by Band on the Run in

i was reading the thread on female hatred in the wtbts.

it seems that for most posters, paul's sayings in books that no reputable scholar now believes paul wrote are preferred over the nonsexist statements he made.

he named women as important leaders and colleagues.

wobble

The debate as to what is canonical is not finished yet, there is no one fully accepted canon by all christendom.

As to authorship of individual books,again the debate will continue,as definitive proof is difficult, the works of Paul that most scholars accept as from his mouth (not necessarily pen, he had somone else write for him on occasion) were circulating at a very early date so little doubt is cast on these.

Not all verses/chapters from the books containing genuine Pauline thoughts are accepted.

As to JW's and scholarship, the two words do not belong in the same sentence. They pay scant attention to the progress made in textual criticism and in higher criticism in recent years.

I am old enough to remember when they did not even understand, as Chas Russell did not, what Higher Criticism was, referring to "so called Higher Critics".

They thought "Criticism" was being critical of the Bible, much as they do not understand what a scientific theory is. They would do well to buy and use a good dictionary.

I am not so sure they understand these methods of study today, hence their abysmal grasp of what the Bible actually says.

13

should there be a national coming out day for JWs leaving the borg?

by zengalileo in

i got the idea from what harvey milk did for the gay movement.

i am tired of hearing these stories about people staying jws while scared to admit they don't believe in it anymore.

if you saw the movie milk, then you know the argument.

wobble

Yay ! we XJW's are the new gays ! That's cool, especially for those of us who are gay !

Good idea I think, if only we could make it happen.

39

Are You Afraid To Die Alone?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know of someone that is concerned that she will be all alone when she dies.. are you afraid to die alone??

?.

wobble

I don't want my death to be a nuisance or any more painfull than necessary for those who remain.

Therefore I propose to ascend in the clouds slowly waving goodbye whilst heavenly choirs sing drinking songs.

16

Lurkers: Are You a Victim of Information Control?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

lurkers,.

are you a victim of information control?

i spent almost seven years at brooklyn bethel.

wobble

Good comments above, and good thread LWT !

If you are a JW, you believe that you have the truth, but is some truth being witheld from you ?

If what we are inviting you to consider in Rays book is not true then it easily disproved and you can discount it and forget it.

If it is true, why should you not be in possesion of this truth ?

4

Watchtower Alternate History

by ColdRedRain in

jw
friends

after the events of 1975, a large section of watchtower believers break away to the dawn bible student movement, turning a once moribound religion into a major church claiming 250k members in the usa.

the new jw dawn bible students learned from the mistakes of their former church and decide to disavow prophecy.

however, a schizm forms between the new surge of members and the old guard when the new members clamor for their positions in their previous church.

wobble

I suppose in a way , I am glad that did not happen, I may well have joined a church headed by dear Ray, and still be in it to this day

I would rather be where I am at, no disrespect to Ray or DBS.

As with all history, it depends on such little things as to how things really turn out. It could have been a much bigger debacle for the WT if advantage had been taken by some other group, instead they were happy just to sit back and laugh at how silly the WT had made themselves look, and who can blame other religions for doing that ?

When I saw the thread title I thought it would be about "WT Alternate History=the Proclaimers book"

85

What is the stupidest comment you ever heard at a meeting?

by 3rdgen in

a very reliable friend told me this: the bro was commenting on what was "unacceptable" conduct in the bedroom between married persons.

needless to say, he had everyone's attention.

he went on to say "we must avoid perversions such as oral and annual sex.

wobble

Smiddy, that is a stupid comment, she may well have had a bra on, the sort that the nipples poke through the cut out holes, peekaboo !

I bet all the red blooded males that heard his stage whisper were glad of the info, they may not have bothered to look otherwise.

46

DO YOU BELIEVE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES "SHUNNING" OF MINORS IS CHILD ABUSE?

by Balaamsass in

i have been reading countless heartbreaking accounts on this site of children of jehovah's witnesses being "disfellowshipped" and shunned by entire families, their congregations, basicly everyone they have ever known for simply questioning their parent's religion!!.

some have been tossed out of family homes to live in cars!!!

this is not christian.