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  162

  GB disassociates itself!!

  by lulu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dear brothers:

  as you have admitted, the watch tower bible & tract society did join the united nations as a non government organization in 1992 ending in 2001, and according to the following watch tower this means that by their own actions they disassociated them selves from jehovahs organization which means that we must treat them like disfellowshiped ones.

  in other words they are no longer jehovahs witnesses or have any right to that name.

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  Sorry must'ave been someone else!

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  162

  GB disassociates itself!!

  by lulu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dear brothers:

  as you have admitted, the watch tower bible & tract society did join the united nations as a non government organization in 1992 ending in 2001, and according to the following watch tower this means that by their own actions they disassociated them selves from jehovahs organization which means that we must treat them like disfellowshiped ones.

  in other words they are no longer jehovahs witnesses or have any right to that name.

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  Elswhere,

  Didn't you make similar comments on the Trinity thread and the Evolution thread?

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  162

  GB disassociates itself!!

  by lulu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dear brothers:

  as you have admitted, the watch tower bible & tract society did join the united nations as a non government organization in 1992 ending in 2001, and according to the following watch tower this means that by their own actions they disassociated them selves from jehovahs organization which means that we must treat them like disfellowshiped ones.

  in other words they are no longer jehovahs witnesses or have any right to that name.

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  Yardif,

  I am truly sorry that you have found it necessary to resort to insulting words when all I did was thank you for your response to my question to you. This is most un-Christian of you.

  Even if I dont agree I can quite understand how someone could be persuaded that by becoming associated with the UN, the Society was only following the example of Ehud. This is not where my problem lies with this matter.

  My problem begins when a long serving and respected Elder in the local congregation seeks clarification from the Society and gets back a load of lies (Theocrat Strategy) which he totally believes and tells to others who have expressed concern. When a member of the congregation who is a librarian checks the information with UN library sources, this respected Elder becomes a laughing stock.

  Please now show me the Scriptural principle that supports this action by the Society. I do know my Bible and there is no example in any scripture where Jehovahs anointed lie to His people in order to cover up their actions. If I have missed it please show it to me and I will apologise to you.

  Even if it was originally Theocratic Warefare, this matter ceased to be Theocratic the moment that the Society decided to lie its way out instead of following the scriptures.

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  162

  GB disassociates itself!!

  by lulu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dear brothers:

  as you have admitted, the watch tower bible & tract society did join the united nations as a non government organization in 1992 ending in 2001, and according to the following watch tower this means that by their own actions they disassociated them selves from jehovahs organization which means that we must treat them like disfellowshiped ones.

  in other words they are no longer jehovahs witnesses or have any right to that name.

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  Yardif,

  Very many thanks for your concise reply to my previous post.

  This is the clearest statement that I have ever seen from anyone that Theocratic Warfare Strategy and lying and deception are one and the same thing in the eyes of Jehovahs Witnesses. This answers a lot of questions for me. Thank you.

  I believe that a religion that has to resort these practises can in no way be considered Christian.

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  162

  GB disassociates itself!!

  by lulu in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dear brothers:

  as you have admitted, the watch tower bible & tract society did join the united nations as a non government organization in 1992 ending in 2001, and according to the following watch tower this means that by their own actions they disassociated them selves from jehovahs organization which means that we must treat them like disfellowshiped ones.

  in other words they are no longer jehovahs witnesses or have any right to that name.

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  Yardif,

  Im sorry to come in on this at this stage of your private battle but something worries me greatly.

  You seem a sincere person and Im sure you will do your best to clarify something for me. My apologies if any of this information is contained elsewhere in this tangled web but can you define for me your understanding of the term Theocratic Warefare? I would also like to understand how you relate the Watchtower Societies actions in their involvement with the UN to the Scriptural account of Ehud.

  The Society could well have claimed Theocratic Warefare (as I understand they see it) when they first became aware that the matter was in the public domain. They chose not to do that but to make their position untenable by embarking on a string of lies therefore departing from all Scriptural principles.

  Firstly they stated that they had found it necessary to align themselves with the UN as a Non Governmental Organisation for the purpose of accessing the library facilities, which was a lie. There was never any requirement for them to associate as a NGO in order to access the library. Then they said that they disassociated themselves in 2001 because the UN had changed the wording on the terms of membership as a NGO, again an outright lie.

  I have copies of letters from the UN showing that what I have stated in the previous paragraph is true. I will not provide you with this documentation because it is too easy to forge but if you are the sincere person that you appear to be you will contact the UN and obtain the information for yourself, first hand.

  Having done so I would ask that you come back to the board and answer one simple question, YES or NO: Do you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the Society has acted in strict accordance with Biblical principles where their involvement with, and departure from, the UN is concerned.

  The true reasons for the Society associating with the UN as a NGO have not been stated openly but you would not need to qualify as a brain surgeon to work it out for yourself, particularly after checking the advantages and benefits that NGOs enjoy.

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  8

  How to overthrow their belief?

  by czarofmischief in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mother still believes.

  she's made me mad enough that i want to disprove her religion, remorselessly and without fear.

  i want to write a pamphlet, a long long letter, starting from every crack and cranny of russell's pyramidology to... well, basically i want to say jehovah's witnesses are wrong and here is why!.

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  Czar,

  Even if you provided absolute and irrefutable proof that every single one of their beliefs and doctrines was totally and completely incorrect and wrong, they would still believe them.

  Dont waste your time and effort. Believe me Im talking from experience here.

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  8

  Anyone read William Barclay's works?

  by eyeslice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wandered into a "christian" book store the other day, i was out of town on business, not sure that i would do it in my own town, where i might get spotted and ratted on to the elders.. i bought a copy of one of william barclay's book, a study of john's gospel.. as i read it, i keep thinking how good it is compared with the watchtower!

  the society bangs on about the abundance of spiritual food but i find the watchtower and most other society literature shallow and unchallenging.

  i can speed read a watchtower in about 5 minutes and still keep abreast with "new light".. this guy, barclay, however really knew his stuff and was not afraid to go into detail.

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  Can anyone remember an argument that occurred between the WTBTS and William Barclay over the NWT? If I remember rightly the Society mis-quoted Barclay, showing him as a supporter of the translation. meanwhile what he actually said was something like 'the translators were intellectually dishonest'.

  Can anyone else remember this?

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  42

  Screwing up folks lives

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is an amplification and adjustment in understanding of what appears in the watchtower of november 15, 1974, pages 703-704, and of february 15, 1978, pages 30-32. those who acted on the basis of the knowledge they had at the time are not to be criticized.

  nor would this affect the standing of a person who in the past believed that a mates perverted sexual conduct within marriage amounted to porneia and, hence, obtained a divorce and is now remarried.

  with this one little footnote in the wt it wiped out folks very lives- notice they refer to such a major doctrinal shift as an "amplification and adjustment in understanding".

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  JT,

  Is it possible to let us know which Watchtower the footnote appeared in because I would very much like to show it to someone. I should be able to find it on the CD Rom.

  Many thanks

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  32

  What Did You Give Up To Be A Jehovah's Witness?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  besides giving up our time and assets,is there anything that you particularly felt that you truly "gave up" to become or remain a witness?

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  When I started to study I gave up smoking. I had been on two packs a day for 30 years so was lucky to be still alive. I had seriously tried to give up about once every two years but never could.

  I believed then (and still do) that I had Divine help to kick the habit. I know that I could never have done it without.

  Then I gave up studying, after realising that "the truth" was not for me. Fortunately I did not confuse "the truth" with Christianity. I've never had a cigarette since so my studying will (hopefully) have a long term effect on me.

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  13

  Need to help my Mother

  by LostinSpace in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im sure you have all heard the same sort of story day in day out on these forums'...but i need help.. my mother has been a jw for over 20 years now.

  during my childhood i was taken to kh every week (my father wasn't/isn't a jw and was always working away).

  during my school years i was "mentaly" abused by other children because of my mothers beleifs.

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  LostinSpace

  Sorry if my previous post was a bit misleading. I did not mean that you would have to do a lot of research into Witness related material, what I meant was that the research needs to be into why your Mom needs them. At least in the first instance.

  This could well involve going back into her childhood to get an idea of who or what might have been a serious influence on her at some time in the past. This is not difficult to do. All you need to say is that you are interested in the history of your family and would like her to tell you all she can remember of her childhood.

  It does take a bit of intelligence to work out from what she tells you what might have had an effect on her in later life but you should be able to find some resources to help you once you have as much information as you can get from her.

  This is the first step. Once you have an idea of why she is where she is you will have some idea as to what aspects of the religion are the most likely vulnerable points..

  It is at this stage that you might have to do some study of Witness related material and this would be in order to find the most suitable approach to use in your Moms case.

  The two problems that you could have if you do not make a plan of this type are (1) you may waste resources in an area that is not sensitive for her and will achieve nothing, or even worse (2) Unsuspectingly hit a nerve that will only drive her in the wrong direction.

  Give it lots of thought

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