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  7

  "No thanks, have fun"

  by kenpodragon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one key moment i remember as being a witness was this time i met this family that was visiting from california.

  they were friends of some people we knew in the hall, and thus we spent a good amount of time with them the week they were here.

  they had two polite daughters and the mom was one of those people who could sit and talk to for hours and hours.

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  Kenpodragon that was a very moving post. I have been in similar situations on two occasions myself so I know exactly how you must have felt. It always makes me wonder why Jehovah saw fit to make it so that it was not me that died.

  On one occasion I was on military duty involved with a terrorist war somewhere in Africa.(Pre JW involvement) One of the gun crew on one of the patrol vehicles was taken ill and I offered to do the trip for him. My offer was turned down because I had just done a twelve hour stint and someone else was sent. That someone else never came back, he took a bullet through the heart.

  The second occasion hit me harder although I was the only person involved. It was also pre JW.

  I was driving alone down a very dark lonely and deserted road one night and needed to do a right turn (driving on left). There were no lights coming towards me or behind me as I pulled to the centre of the road and slowed down. At that moment there was a piercing whistle from behind me as though someone wanted to get my attention so I slapped on my brakes and came to a stop. Without exaggeration no more than a second later a giant truck with no lights was exactly where I would have been if I hadnt stopped. I was really shaken up by that, partly because there was no one around who could have done the whistling.

  Sounds a bit like a JW "experience" but it made me wonder.

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  26

  KIngdom Melodies

  by freedom96 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wondering if there were any good funny stories out there with the songs.. there always were the loud ones, the ones who thought they could sing.. i remember wrong songs being played on the record, then later tape, (are they on c/d yet?

  ) and people singing to it, but the wrong music, but they keep going anyways, especially when the "new song book" came out.. how about when the record would skip.. of course there were the brothers back there who so loved their "repsonsibility" in the hall, and took the "privledge" of doing the music so serious.. i remember back when they allowed someone to actually play the piano, she sometimes would jazz it up a little, and the congregation loved it, made it more lively, until they were chastised for it.. and then of course, no one could play live anymore, didn't want to make the musician too proud.

  do you think that was really the reason?

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  Try www.terra.es/personal2/online/index2.htm

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  22

  question

  by Realist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a short question.. while you were in the truth would have been impressed by the quotes on the quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com page about 1914 and all the other wrong prophecies or would you have simply ignored or denied the accuracy of the quotes?.

  would that have caused doubts or would you have found a way to rationalize the obvious lies?.

  thanks a lot!.

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  Sorry LL, I thought for a moment that you were a Jehovahs Witness. My sincere appologies.

  link
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  22

  question

  by Realist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a short question.. while you were in the truth would have been impressed by the quotes on the quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com page about 1914 and all the other wrong prophecies or would you have simply ignored or denied the accuracy of the quotes?.

  would that have caused doubts or would you have found a way to rationalize the obvious lies?.

  thanks a lot!.

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  hi Realist,

  You have asked a real thought provoking question here. Something that would interest me just as much is: "while you were studying with JW's would you have been impressed by the quotes on the quote.jehovahswitness.com page............" ????

  link

  Edited by link to ask Loyal Leon a serious question. Yes, I have met many JWs who do not believe all they are taught. I don't mind this because it is everyones perogative to believe or disbelieve what they deem fit and to join any group of people thay may wish.However I do have a problem.

  You now go about and try to get others to believe the things that you do not believe yourself in order that they may be "saved" at Armageddon. Please, Please rationalise this for me.

  link

  Edited by - link on 10 September 2002 6:21:13
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  26

  Theocratic Warfare, Virus Style

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems someone is not happy that i've put the kingdom ministry up on my site:.

  http://jsefton.users1.50megs.com/kmscans.htm, and is sending me viruses.

  not only that, they seem to be sending the virus out with my email address as the return address (i got one that seems to have bounced - unless that was just a clever ruse to get me to open the attachment).

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  Following on from my post above. The e-mails that I receive that contain the viruses contain nothing else. There is no message with the e-mail just an attachment which I never open.

  When I click on the new post two things happen. Firstly my system automatically opens up my media player and at the same time a "pop up" tells me the attachment has a virus.I immediately get my anti virus system to kill the post.

  It seems that someone is purposely sending me viruses for some reason unless it is spam which has got infected.

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  26

  Theocratic Warfare, Virus Style

  by Stephanus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems someone is not happy that i've put the kingdom ministry up on my site:.

  http://jsefton.users1.50megs.com/kmscans.htm, and is sending me viruses.

  not only that, they seem to be sending the virus out with my email address as the return address (i got one that seems to have bounced - unless that was just a clever ruse to get me to open the attachment).

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  I am a newbie who only started posting a few weeks ago. Since I started posting I have also started to receive e-mails containing viruses and my e-mail address is not open. Almost everything that has happened to the posters above, has happened to me. Can anyone explain?

  The timing could be coincidence but it seems to be happening to posters from all over the world not just here in the U.K.

  I have limited (very limited) computer knowledge but I do have a virus scanner and never open attachments unless the sender is known to me although I think I have been caught out once on the "returned mail" con. My anti-virus system cleaned the file.

  Unfortunately "computer speak" goes right over my head so I can't do much else to protect myself.

  link
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  14

  A dumb question?

  by link in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its quite possible that i am the only one on this board who does not know the answer to this question so can someone please enlighten me.. at jeremiah 25:12 it says that when 70 years have been fulfilled, babylon and its king will be destroyed.

  when does this 70 years start from?

  all wts literature says that babylon was destroyed in 539 bce, two years before the end of the 70 years of judahs desolation in 537, which started in 607 bce.. are these two different lots of 70 years?

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  Thanks for your responses everyone. I can' t argue with any of it.

  I do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God but I do not believe that by allocating numbers to historical events then juggling them about you can come up with somthing and call it the fulfillment of scriptural prophesy. It is comforting to know however, that history supports the Biblical record.

  Unfortunately I am not in a position to take a hard line with my family on these matters, I stand to lose too much.

  I have tried putting this and similar questions to them about 1914, 1919 etc but they always resort to the same ultimate response. "How else could we have foretold the second comming of Jesus and the start of the First World War before the actual events?" What a loaded statemet!

  They won't believe this, but firstly they never attached 1914 to the Second Comming before the event and secondly they never foretold the the start of WW1. Ask them for proof of either of these two statements and the response you get is "you don't have enough faith".

  There are just so many issues that they do not want to even look at, let alone want to explain.

  link
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  14

  A dumb question?

  by link in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its quite possible that i am the only one on this board who does not know the answer to this question so can someone please enlighten me.. at jeremiah 25:12 it says that when 70 years have been fulfilled, babylon and its king will be destroyed.

  when does this 70 years start from?

  all wts literature says that babylon was destroyed in 539 bce, two years before the end of the 70 years of judahs desolation in 537, which started in 607 bce.. are these two different lots of 70 years?

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  Hi J Gull,

  Thanks, I have that site stored under "favourites" but you can only understand it if you are not a JW, if you are it will not make sense to you.You will still go on believing what the WTS says.

  I have to work with what the JW's believe hence my question about the last king of Babylon being killed after 68 yrars and not 70 years as per the Bible. This is what they believe so I am just asking how they work it out.

  I mentioned in my last post about complications. They complicate matters still further by frequent use of such words as "literal", "figurative" and "fulfillment".

  Any part of the Bible can be literal or figurative or both at the same time or at different times depending on the outcome you want to achieve. Any part of the Bible can have a literal fulfillment on any number of occasions and can also have a figurative fulfillment at any time and on any number of occasions from one to infinity depending on what you are trying to "prove".

  I don't know how 6m people, including my own family, can believe this!

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  14

  A dumb question?

  by link in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its quite possible that i am the only one on this board who does not know the answer to this question so can someone please enlighten me.. at jeremiah 25:12 it says that when 70 years have been fulfilled, babylon and its king will be destroyed.

  when does this 70 years start from?

  all wts literature says that babylon was destroyed in 539 bce, two years before the end of the 70 years of judahs desolation in 537, which started in 607 bce.. are these two different lots of 70 years?

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  Hi db,

  My only interest in numerology stems from my very close association with my JW family members.

  Yes I have a very strong belief in God and the Bible but not in the man made religions of our day. For example I do not believe in divination by numbers as the JWs do with their 607 and 1914 etc therefore second Adventist numerology is hogwash to me. It borders on the occult and I believe it has no place in Christianity .

  I think perhaps that I am more inclined towards a practical than theoretical interpretation of the Bible so in that respect, yes I could be a pragmatist.

  The reason that I frequent this board is that my JW family are continually challenging me to disprove their beliefs. I find it very difficult at times trying to prove a negative so always attempt to turn the challenge around by asking questions in the form of seeking clarification. The secret here is that I must always know the answer myself before asking the question. Hence my question.

  Changing the subject slightly, the biggest problem that I come up against is one of interpretation. On occasions there appears to be many different English words that fit a Greek or Hebrew verb and many different ways of understanding these English words. At other times there appears to be no English equivalent to the Greek or Hebrew or no Greek or Hebrew equivalent of the English word.

  For this reason the interpretation of the Bible takes many and various forms and the outcome is completely dependent upon how these variations are linked together by the writer in order to present the finished article. The Witnesses do it in a unique way and therefore they are different, but may not always be wrong.

  I do however disagree with them most strongly on some of their interpretation of scripture and occasionally need a little bit of ammunition to fire back.

  Link
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  14

  A dumb question?

  by link in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its quite possible that i am the only one on this board who does not know the answer to this question so can someone please enlighten me.. at jeremiah 25:12 it says that when 70 years have been fulfilled, babylon and its king will be destroyed.

  when does this 70 years start from?

  all wts literature says that babylon was destroyed in 539 bce, two years before the end of the 70 years of judahs desolation in 537, which started in 607 bce.. are these two different lots of 70 years?

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  Hi Craig,

  Many thanks for your response to my question. I can understand how this might be applied to Babylon but not how it applies to its king. The final evidence of Babylons defeat may have been the return of the Jews, but the final evidence of the end of the king was his dead body.

  According to the WTS his death occurred after 68 years and according to the Bible it was after 70 years that the last king of Babylon would be destroyed. Something does not "click".

  Would be grateful for any further info.

  link