HB

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Posts by HB

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  34

  How much does gas cost where you live?

  by reneeisorym in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was depressed yesterday because i put in the first $40.00 tank of gas.

  (i drive a toyota matrix -- i'm sure most people should think i should shut up now ...) .

  i was hoping you guys could make me feel grateful for only having to pay $40.

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  HB

  
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  50

  Struggling with the concept of a "God"

  by littleblueuk in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this topic, i'm sure, has been discussed many times, but today i am really contemplating the concept of god.. i remember vividly the old testament; the israelites slaughtering everyone in their path, men, women and children at god's direction at jericho, leaving no one alive.

  i remember thinking then as a child how cruel that was.

  there are many other examples.. then reading the news today i read a section in the world news about india.

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  HB

  Awakened07,

  Thank you for explaining clearly a concept which has been half formed in my head for a while but which I have not been able to put into words.

  What made me ponder was when I found out, in the process of researching my family tree, how many people we are each directly descend from. We have 8 Gt Grandparents and the number doubles each generation you go back, so we all descend from 4,194,304 twentieth Gt Granparents and so on.

  Back in the middle ages, i f just one of your 4 million+ direct bloodline ancestors as a child (or at least before they conceived the baby that became one of your 19th Gt Grandparents), had happened to step in front of an ox cart or whatever, and had been killed, you would not exist.

  The probability of any of us as individuals existing in our present form is incredibly small, but nevertheless, we are here.

  I do not personally believe there was an intelligent Being directing events and purposely bringing couples together from the beginning of time just to lead to my birth, or that this Being engineered my meeting my husband so that an as yet unknown individual will exist in another 20 generations. I feel that I am here by chance not Providence. (Do any Christians feel differently and feel you were destined to be born ever since time began?)

  That thought led me to consider that the reason all the other amazing things in the universe exist which at first seem to be too complex or well-designed to be a product of chance, could indeed be just that, chance.
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  17

  UK / USA opinion poll

  by HB in

  1. social
  2. current

  not sure - uk25% usa 11%.

  yes it is a sin - uk 5% usa 33%.

  yes it is a sin - uk 13% usa 40% .

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  HB

  A new opinion poll from YouGov has compared the US and Great Britain on a number of issues. It covers politics, social issues, troops in Iraq and Afganistan, free trade, globalisation, religion, immigration, the economy, etc etc.

  Interestingly, the most marked difference between the two nations is in relation to belief in God.

  I have copied a few excerpts here, but the full survey can be read at

  http://www.yougov.com/uk/archives/pdf/UK%20US%20topline%20comparison.pdf

  Do you believe there is a God?

  Yes I do - UK 39% USA 80%

  No I Don't - UK 36% USA 9%

  Not sure - UK25% USA 11%

  Do you believe that there is a Hell where sinners who do not repent their sins go when they die?

  Yes I do - UK 16% USA 54%

  No I don’t - UK 57% USA 27%

  Not sure - UK

  27% USA 19%

  How would you feel if the Prime Minister / President were an atheist?

  I would be delighted - UK

  11% USA 6%

  I wouldn’t mind - UK

  63% USA 28%

  I would be sorry - UK

  14% USA 31%

  I would be angry - UK

  2% USA 21%

  Don’t know - UK

  10% USA 14%

  Which do you think is more likely to be the correct explanation for the origin of life on earth?

  The theory of evolution - UK

  63% USA 30%

  The account of creation as told in the Bible - UK

  10% USA 40%

  “Intelligent design” – evolution has happened but by intelligent design - UK

  13% USA 19%

  Not sure - UK 15% USA 11%

  Do you regard sex between unmarried people as a sin or not?

  Yes it is a sin - UK

  5% USA 33%

  No it is not a sin but it is not generally desirable - UK

  22% USA 29%

  No it is perfectly acceptable behaviour - UK

  71% USA 34%

  Don’t know - UK

  2% USA 4%

  Do you regard homosexuality as a sin or not?

  Yes it is a sin - UK

  13% USA 40%

  No it is not a sin but it is not generally desirable - UK

  37% USA 27%

  No it is perfectly acceptable behaviour - UK 46% USA 26%

  Don’t know - UK

  4% USA 7%

  (I have added this one as I just read a thread on this topic.)
  On the subject of climate change do you think…

  The world is becoming warmer as a result of human activity - UK

  55% USA 49%

  The world is becoming warmer but NOT because of human activity - UK 25% USA 19%

  The world is NOT becoming warmer - UK

  7% USA 18%

  Not sure - UK

  13% USA 14%

  Although UK and USA contributors to JWD are probably not a completely representative sample of their respective nations, I have noticed some definite trends on this board showing opinions drawn along national lines . Makes for more interesting discussions!

  On a tangent, and national trends aside, the fact that ex JWs have such a wide range of opinions as seen on JWD proves that the Governing Body does not succeed in permanently re-wiring brains and creating all members into drones (or are they trying to create members in their Own image?). Once out of the cult, the previously supressed opinions of ex members are as diverse as the rest of society. A fact to celebrate!
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  43

  2012: The Year The Internet Ends

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://ipower.ning.com/netneutrality.

  06/01/2008 - every significant internet provider around the globe is currently in talks with access and content providers to transform the internet into a television-like medium: no more freedom, you pay for a small commercial package of sites you can visit and you'll have to pay for seperate subscriptions for every site that's not in the package.

  what can we do?internet providers have realized that the only way to not lose massive amounts of customers over this is to make sure there are no alternatives, that's why all major internet providers are currently making agreements and planning to switch simultaneously somewhere in the year 2012. this is currently all going on under very strict nda's (non-disclosure agreements) because the last thing they want is the masses speaking out against it.

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  HB

  I sent a link to this article to my son who works in the internet business and this was his reply: The article is vastly exaggerated and has facts wrong. At one point some of the big American ISPs were talking about trying to charge websites every time one of their users visited it (so that bit is the other way around). However the websites just threatened to block those users if they tried to put this into place (i.e. the intention being to make the users angry at their ISPs), so that idea was dropped. The other way around would never work as there'd always be one ISP which would stay out of the 'package' and thus attract everyone to join it. (Long live market forces!) Another less dramatic idea now exists - where big companies would pay ISPs to have a faster connection (e.g. Amazon's website would load quicker than a local website) however last thing I heard, a couple of the ISPs weren't going in on the idea either (in the hope they'd get extra customers by pointing out their average speeds are better) so I think that idea has started to collapse too. Plus, there are laws to contend with. This is what our government said: " The conclusion was that Net Neutrality laws in the UK would be "extreme... unattractive and impractical" and that it was "an answer to problems we don't have, using a philosophy we don't share" So don't panic.
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  20

  the day after armageddon

  by Crumpet in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (this is creepy, funny and shocking so i thought i would share - sorry if its ever been posted before.

  ) parts 2-5 will follow!

  the diary of an .

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  HB

  There was an interesting programme on UK TV last night (Channel 4) entitled "Life After People". It discussed a hypothetical time-line of what would happen to the world if for some reason humans were completely wiped out. If I was a JW, the programme would worry me.

  Although theoretically speaking, immediately after a JW Armageddon, there would perhaps initially be a few million people left on earth, based on the ideas in this programme, this would not be enough to prevent the forces of nature taking control of most of the planet in a short space of time. I suppose JWs believe that Jehovah will take care of all problems, but in order to do so, He would have to change practically every known law of the universe including all weather systems.

  An example of the problems that would face survivors is that within two weeks of not being maintained, city subways and underground networks would start filling with ground-water. Currently, in New York City, 700 pumps shift 49,000 cubic metres of water out of the tunnels everyday; in London, 30,000 cubic metres are pumped out. If no one was around to operate the London flood barriers, it wouldn't be long before the whole city was under water. So the top brass JWs can forget their ideas of moving into Buckingham Palace.

  Everywhere there would be a population explosion of mice and rats eating all the rotting food in the houses and shops, and feral cats would be in their element. Forest fires would be left to burn out of control, and in the longer term, bridges, roads and all infrastructure would crumble if not maintained.

  It's a strange thought that someone who lived in the 1st century and was resurrected might have to learn to do some very 21st century tasks!

  The programme showed what has happened to a once beautiful town near Chernobyl that was evacuated only 20 years ago to illustrate how quickly buildings and civilisation disappears if not maintained.

  See http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/L/life_after_people/timeline/timeline.html
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  83

  What really is a Soul Mate? --- Is it possible Yes or No?

  by Hope4Others in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  soul mate.

  n. one of two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity.

  there seems to be a variety of defintions on the net so what does "soul mate" mean?.

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  HB

  I really believe in the possibility of soul-mates both platonically and romantically.

  My sister Christine is 50 and her partner Stuart is 30 and people constantly assume he must be her toy-boy, but those that know them understand that this is not the case and they are true soul-mates. They are like a mirror image of each other and they instinctively know what the other one is thinking and feeling and they are incomplete apart. They are both quite unconventional and both feel there is no-one else in the world with whom they could feel such a close bond and deep respect.

  They had been good friends for many years but got together 6 years ago after my sister's previous relationship broke up. The general public could not understand a normal healthy 24 year old man wanting to be with a 44 year old woman and they had to battle against prejudice but in some ways this made them stronger.

  After being blissfully happy together for a year, Chris agonised and soul-searched and in spite of Stuart's pleadings and protests, she broke away and went abroad to give him the opportunity to meet someone younger. She did it out of love for him, not because she didn't want to be with him, but later admitted that pressure from disapproving society had also played a part.

  But Stuart was not interested in anyone else and spent the next three months begging her to return. Both of them were totally miserable apart and eventually, to the relief of all of us that are close to them, Chris realised that she should not be wasting time and fighting the inevitable and should accept this wonderful happiness and enjoy it. I don't believe in "fate" but am tempted to say they were destined to be together. They are closer than ever now.

  Chris is still concerned that when she is 70, Stuart will only be 50, but he constantly assures her that he will always love her no matter what and she has accepted that now. Stuart points out that if he was in an accident and paralysed from the neck down or any other similar scenario, he knows that Chris would look after him, so she should accept his love and believe he will still love her when she is old. He tells her he loves her age lines and wrinkles as without them, she wouldn't be herself. I tell her she should not walk away from bliss because of an unknown future.

  It is great being around them, their happiness, closeness and shared love seems to cast a light around them that reflects onto others and makes everyone else feel happy too. Sorry if it sounds like a sloppy romantic novel, but it's true and I think it helps to hear positive stories sometimes as there is so much sadness in the world.

  Here is a picture of them taken in 2003 (sorry don't have a more up to date one).

  

  Just to finish, I am also happily married, (30 years this September - going to Paris to celebrate!) but my husband and I are not true soul-mates. We love and respect each other deeply but many of our interests are different and there are things about me he will never understand and vice versa. (I don't understand how he loves football, all the matches seem the same to me, and he can't understand why I am interested in philosophy and sociology, as he is perfectly happy without knowing about them!). But we do share a similar outlook on life and trust each other completely.

  The nearest thing I have to a soul-mate is my sister, but I have to share her with Stuart!
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  11

  JWs at the door

  by HB in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday, my 23 year old son mark was the only one in our house and was just drying off after a shower when the front doorbell rang.

  he was expecting a friend to arrive, so he pulled on a pair of underpants and went to open the door and let his friend in, only to find two sweet-looking, demurely dressed middle aged jw ladies on the doorstep holding magazines.

  mark was not particularly embarrassed, but the ladies were visibly taken aback by his appearance and were speechless for a couple of seconds.

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  HB

  Thank you for your replies, very useful.

  Bring the Light,

  I didn't realise the door to door work was so organised, I thought they just drove around and decided on a whim where they felt like going that day! There's so much to learn.

  Unfortunately I am sure the local JWs would not accept me for a study.

  The reason I came to this site in the first place was that a 20 year old friend is currently studying with the Witnesses and I have been learning about the cult in order to try to show her the other side of the coin. Her bible study conductor has told her that I am an agent of Satan trying to tempt her away from the truth. Fortunately at present, my friend is ignoring this as she has known me for many years.

  We live in a village in a relatively rural area and there is only one Kingdom Hall in the vicinity, so I am sure word would soon get around as to who I was if I rang and asked someone to call. My friend's study conductor does not know where I live at present, but she does know my name.

  Pity as otherwise I would love the idea of being a secret agent!!

  Bigmouth,

  Thanks for the info, very useful. I used to work in a court office and was trained to keep calm and be polite to people whatever the circumstances, and my nature is placid, so I would discuss ideas with JWs in an even tone and be respectful and 'nice', Thanks for your advice though, interesting to see things from another perspective.

  Black sheep,

  Fantastic idea, yes I will use that if I get the chance to talk to them.

  White Dove.

  Yes sadist not masochist, it would be fun for me but not for the JWs I hope!

  Heather
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  11

  JWs at the door

  by HB in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday, my 23 year old son mark was the only one in our house and was just drying off after a shower when the front doorbell rang.

  he was expecting a friend to arrive, so he pulled on a pair of underpants and went to open the door and let his friend in, only to find two sweet-looking, demurely dressed middle aged jw ladies on the doorstep holding magazines.

  mark was not particularly embarrassed, but the ladies were visibly taken aback by his appearance and were speechless for a couple of seconds.

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  HB

  Yesterday, my 23 year old son Mark was the only one in our house and was just drying off after a shower when the front doorbell rang. He was expecting a friend to arrive, so he pulled on a pair of underpants and went to open the door and let his friend in, only to find two sweet-looking, demurely dressed middle aged JW ladies on the doorstep holding magazines.
  
  Mark was not particularly embarrassed, but the ladies were visibly taken aback by his appearance and were speechless for a couple of seconds. Mark assumed they were shocked by his wet, wild looking hair and 2 day's worth of stubble (he was just about to shave) but I wonder if they were just guiltily enjoying the sight of a good-looking fit young man wearing nothing but a pair of boxer shorts!

  I was sorry I missed the ladies, as I have always enjoyed talking with JWs at the door but in the past, I have simply based my arguements on philosophical issues as I did not know anything about the WTS. However now I have learnt a few things from this site, I feel I could have a much more interesting discussion, and I would relish it.

  I know that trying to get brainwashed people to understand reality is like eating custard with a fork, but unlike many of you here, I have no painful memories of being in the cult and have no distressing family pressures that hold me back from speaking, so why not, I have nothing to lose but time.

  One occasion years ago I answered the door to JWs with my newborn 5 day old daughter in my arms, and after cooing over the baby for a few minutes and enquiring about my other two small children who were peering inquisitively at the callers, the couple asked if I was worried about bringing up children to be righteous in a sinful world. I looked at my beautiful innocent daughter and asked them if they believed babies were born sinful and they had to gulp before admitting in a mumble that they did. I just told them politely there was no point in us continuing this discussion and they hurriedly left.

  Returning to Thursday, Mark knows a little about JWs as I have told him some of what I have been learning from this forum, but although like me, he enjoys a good debate, he didn't feel he was appropriately dressed to engage in a discussion at that moment, and anyway his friend was about to arrive, so he just said he was too busy and maybe another time.

  I have never been a JW and would be grateful for advice on the following points:

  1. Is it likely that the JW ladies would take Mark's off the cuff statement of "maybe another time" as literal and actually come back in the near future, or would they take it as a polite brush off? (Many English are often too polite; we use euphemisms instead of saying what we mean, so I thought these ladies might regularly be used to hearing "another time" at lots of doors and not take it literally).

  2. If they do take it literally, would it be likely to be the same two ladies who come back, or do they give the addresses of potentially interested householders to their team leader who then decides who will do a return visit?

  3. If there is to be a return visit, is it likely to be the same day of the week as the first visit (Thursday in this case)?

  4. Do they have a set amount of time that they spend at each house or will they continue talking for as long as I seem 'interested'?

  5. If I ask a question they cannot answer, would that probably make them leave?

  6. Is it better to invite them in or keep them on the doorstep?

  I realise if it's the same two ladies they might well be disappointed to have me to talk to and not my son (!), but although Mark probably will be in, (he is very busy running his own web-design business from home), he said if they return, he would probably leave it to me to talk but would listen in from another room.

  The ladies left Mark with the March 08 Awake and the 1 April 08 Watchtower mags, which he threw straight in the recycling bin after they left, but I have pulled them out to read. Most of it made me squirm and clench my toes in revulsion, but in a couple of place I just laughed at the sheer comic ridiculousness of the statements.

  I have dutifully used a highlighter on each page of the magazines (I have heard from all of you here that that's what JWs do before meetings), but I have highlighted things I think are wrong or don't make sense.

  The first article in the Awake magazine is entitled "Is there one true religion?" It states that if you follow the moral laws of the bible, good consequences will be realised and if you don't, bad ones will happen. It claims this proves "the bible's moral laws hold true for all mankind". The next bit is the statement that really gets me: they say " IT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS" that as the bible's moral laws are true, it must therefore mean that the bible's teachings on worship, what happens when we die and hope for an everlasting future "are also truths".

  My understanding of the meaning of logic is obviously very different to theirs.

  It also makes me laugh how they bossily say: "So think: ....." before a statement, conditioning the reader to feel that if they don't agree, they simply haven't thought hard enough about the subject.

  I guess you are all very familiar with the Watchtower and Awake writing style and the unbelievable content that has no relevance to most people's lives, but it's all new and morbidly fascinating to me.

  If you have any further advice on how to talk effectively to JWs at the door-step, I would be grateful to hear it.

  Heather
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  23

  Horoscopes/star signs

  by HB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a friend who is an intelligent high-flying business woman is going through a relationship break-up and is also recovering from breast cancer.

  she is not religious but has been turning to 'new-age' beliefs to try to help her cope, (she has visited a numerologist and had her palm read).

  she has just sent me an email with a description of 12 different personalities based on star signs.

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  HB

  I guess it's a cultural thing as in the UK we say star signs not sun signs.

  This appears to be a subject on which there is not going to be a general concensus. I had assumed that the majority ex-JWs would be anti-astrology or at least indifferent, but am quite surprised that several are who are interested in it,

  I have a paperback book written by a self proclaimed professional astrologer in which he describes the 12 personality types. I high-lighted the attributes for each sign that I felt applied to me in yellow and used red for the attributes I felt did not apply. It is difficult to be objective about oneself, but I tried to be honest. Each sign had about 15 to 22 traits listed.

  I counted up and found that at least 40% of what was written for all 12 signs, applied to me, and in some cases it was more. Roughly 60% of the Gemini type was right for me, and about 71% of Sagittarius applied. My own Pisces was about 62% right, (13 out of the 21 statements).

  But I know so many people who do believe there is something in it and say that they fit their sign perfectly. My neighbour was born a month prematurely and although she doesn't take astrology seriously, she often reads the star sign for the date she should have been born as well as her actual one.

  I looked online for my daily horoscope predictions for today but any that were done by 'professionals' required joining or signing in which I didn't want to do, so I was left with the dregs which were all obviously guesswork, eg:

  You are dealing with someone who is being very stubborn – and you can’t understand what the big deal is. You have tried to explain your point of view but they are digging their heals in. Try and uncover their objections.

  A somewhat cranky midweek day for Pisces. You seem to be going through an unusually selfish phase, and your inability to share could cause real problems with siblings or mates. What's behind your insecurity? Why do you feel the need to keep "it" all for yourself? If you can solve the hidden issues, you'll soon be back to your own caring, sharing self.

  None of these relate in any form to my feelings/experiences today. But as FunkyDerek said I suppose they could help someone somewhere.

  My feeling is that if there was any scientific basis in astrology, clinical psychologists and job-recruitment agencies etc would be using it, and there would be university degree courses in the subject. It does worry me when we hear of politicians and world leaders who consult with astrologers and make important decisions accordingly.

  (On a different subject, I have been an amatuer graphologist (handwriting analyst) for many years - there is a proven scientific basis for this skill and it is used by many HR departments, criminologists, psychiatrists and other professonals. Pity people can't use their handwriting to post on this board as I would be able to tell a lot about you all that is not revealed in the words themselves!)
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  23

  Horoscopes/star signs

  by HB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a friend who is an intelligent high-flying business woman is going through a relationship break-up and is also recovering from breast cancer.

  she is not religious but has been turning to 'new-age' beliefs to try to help her cope, (she has visited a numerologist and had her palm read).

  she has just sent me an email with a description of 12 different personalities based on star signs.

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  HB

  Hi Momz,

  You sound a very nice person as a typical Pisces. I would be interested to know how you think it works that the Pisces personality fits you so closely? Do you think it's just coincidence or do you think your personality was determined by where the stars were positioned at the moment of your birth? If the latter, what was the mechanism that caused your personality to be influenced? I don't know anything about astrology.

  I am also a Pisces (18th March) but although some of the description you posted could possibly apply to me, a lot doesn't. I am the least musical person in the world, have never taken a mood altering drug, I don't exercise to relieve emotional stress, (unless you count gardening as exercise). I have no interest in sports but if I did I would not do watersports as I am not a good swimmer. I am unfortunately not artistic and don't take part in music or drama, let alone excel at them. I have never had any trouble with my feet and white or purple are definitely not my best colours. I have no interest in dream interpretation. And so on.

  When I read other star sign descriptions the same thing applies, some of it is me and some isn't.

  Can you say that none of the other signs describe you at all? Just interested....